To foreshadow the good things to come.So why were they offering rams and sheep and goats and bulls?
HEBREWS 10:1 1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices which are continually offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near.
Yes but that’s only the moment portion.Only His sacrifice was able to take away and atone for all sin once and for all.
This close association Christians have with Christ (He abides in us and we IN Him) makes things like saving your soul (the process) from death and covering a multitude of sins a distinct possiility according to Scripture.JAMES 5:19-20 19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way
will save his soul from death and
will cover a multitude of sins.
ROMANS 6:3 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Like I said the 10 commandments are part of the law of Moses. I just can’t see why you believe…So you are saying we should still be following the law of Moses, yet this is what Paul has to say about the law:
Like I said I see nothing in the Bible that tells us we no longer need to obey the 10 commandments. Jesus didn’t say the time for these laws are over He said He fulfilled them and perfected them. Sure we live by faith in the New Covenant, however a big portion of that faith is believing and following what Christ commanded us to do.Now that Christ has come the time for the law is over and we now live in the dispensation of faith.
So why do you suppose the verse alludes to belief and unbelief? What does faith have to do with it?I understand why you have to believe this illogical reasoning, it is the only way you can dismiss certain profound Biblical text, like John 20, and make it fit into your theology.
I’m still waiting on your Critical Thinking interpretation of John 20.
Have you read Galatians 3:23-25So you are saying we should still be following the law of Moses, yet this is what Paul has to say about the law:
23 Now before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, [perpetually] imprisoned [in preparation] for the faith that was destined to be revealed, 24 with the result that the Law has become our tutor and our disciplinarian to guide us to Christ, so that we may be [c]justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under [the control and authority of] a tutor and disciplinarian.
This belief:
Comes from this verseNow that Christ has come the time for the law is over and we now live in the dispensation of faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under [the control and authority of] a tutor and disciplinarian.
The tutor is the law of Moses.
There isn’t any mention of the persons faith. You do realize that Jesus never said the words faith or unbelief don’t you? Those words were added to what Jesus actually said, you know that right?So why do you suppose the verse alludes to belief and unbelief? What does faith have to do with it?
If the Apostles can discern on their own who can be forgiving and who shouldn’t be forgiven, why is there any mention of the person’s faith?
John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone they are forgiven [because of their faith]; if you retain the sins of anyone, they are retained [and remain unforgiven because of their unbelief].”
You do know that Jesus did not speak English right. His words were translated, and there is always the risk of the true meaning and context of a statement being lost in translation.There isn’t any mention of the persons faith. You do realize that Jesus never said the words faith or unbelief don’t you? Those words were added to what Jesus actually said, you know that right?
.So why do you suppose the verse alludes to belief and unbelief?
JOHN 20:22b-23 22 he breathed on them,
and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23
IF YOU FORGIVE the SINS of any,
THEY ARE forgiven;
IF YOU RETAIN the SINS of any,
THEY ARE retained.”
Since the 10 commandments preceded the Levitical law, how is it that they are a summary of what came after them?The 10 Commandments are a summary of the Levitical laws. All the Levitical laws are a detailed breakdown of the 10 commandments therefore the 10 commandments represents the law as well.
This is a good question. A person who does not have faith would not come to those authorized to forgive sins and confess them.If the Apostles can discern on their own who can be forgiving and who shouldn’t be forgiven, why is there any mention of the person’s faith?
The Holy Spirit gives them this authority and discernment.John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of anyone, they are retained.”
What makes you think this has changed? The fact that it is fulfilled in Christ does not make the tutor void!Galatians 3:23-25 " the Law has become our tutor and our disciplinarian to guide us to Christ
This is absolutely true!You do know that Jesus did not speak English right. His words were translated, and there is always the risk of the true meaning and context of a statement being lost in translation.
You have made a false conclusion based upon a false premise. Humans do not “dole out” forgiveness. They act in the person of Christ, who give forgiveness freely.Paul teaches extensively on how forgiveness through grace can’t be earned and is given freely. So if you go with your assumption that man can dole out forgiveness and it’s not freely given then either Paul or Jesus must be lying.
This is not the case at all, medwigel. In fact, you would be hard put to find more Catholics anywhere that CAF that know their scriptures. The difference is that we read the Scriptures through the lens of the Apostolic faith that has been infallibly preserved in the Church by the Holy Spirit. You read it through the lens of the Reformation, some 1500 years after people departed from that faith.You are the one who’s blindly following because you have not read beyond just that one verse to see how does it all fit together. The church told you priest can forgive your sins and you roll with it without searching the Scripture further.
So you believe every translator of every Bible for the past 1900 years didn’t realize Jesus wasn’t talking about SIN here? Then all of the sudden the Amp Bible got it right and found the real context, faith not sin, was what Jesus truly meant?You do know that Jesus did not speak English right. His words were translated, and there is always the risk of the true meaning and context of a statement being lost in translation.
Why do you keep interpreting Jesus based on your interpretation of St. Paul. I agree we need to read the Bible as a whole but we don’t Ignore or dismiss the obvious context of Jesus words because of St. Paul’s writings.Paul teaches extensively on how forgiveness through grace
Yes and it doesn’t change the context of the GospelsYou are the one who’s blindly following because you have not read beyond just that one verse to see how does it all fit together. The church told you priest can forgive your sins and you roll with it without searching the Scripture further.
Have you read Galatians 3?
The point I am making is I agree with St. Paul, the free gift of grace you already received is not a pass to your future sins. To me this would mean the grace you have right now does not cover the sins you will commit 10 years from now. I’m pretty sure you will agree that we both will most like continue to sin in this life. Therefore, it is only logical to come to the conclusion something else needs to take place in order to get more FREE grace to cover those future sins.
The grace that Christ gives us is complete and all reaching. His one act covers ALL of our sins Of this Paul says:
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Paul says Christ has forgiven ALL of our sins, no some or half or past- no, Christ forgave all our sins. Christ made a way for us even before we believed in Him!
JL: Paul also does not say future. Scripture nor Paul ever speaks of future sins being forgiven without repentance and confession. Col2 is talking about all sins before baptism which are forgiven with baptism look at the context. In Jn20 Christ gave the power to NT priests to forgive sins after baptism. Otherwise it would be ridiculous to give them the Holy Spirit to forgive or retain sins.
[Col2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;]
It appears you are once saved always saved which is contrary to scripture.
Certainly parts of them have been, but the writings themselves attest that there is more.As you conceded the oral traditions at the time that Paul was writing to the church in Thesonica (his earliest letters) was later enscripturated in such doctrinal theses such as the epistles to the Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, Hebrews, and captured in the later writing of the four gospels.
Even those of us that also believe the Church is “god-breathed” will agree that the Scriptures are so.what we do know is that scripture provides us with what we need to be fully equipped to know the word of god, and these scriptures which are god-breathed are certain.
The Teaching of the Apostles is as much the Word of God as those that are written, which is why we are told to preserve them.The oral traditions you speak of, not captured by the scriptures are of uncertain origin and have numerous witnesses arguing for and against and often conflict with scripture which we know is certain.
I fully appreciate your sincerity. I also respect that you may not realize that you have embraced "different doctrines’ that were just invented during the Reformation.To tell me I am departing scripture for traditions of men when you yourself hold to discuss cattiness conflicting with scripture turns the argument on its head.
Again and again people we seem to take the line of least resistance - we prefer auto-absolution which seems a grand product of our pride. We tend to, very likely, go to confess in public, if at all we do so, those sins we think we can whitewash, but the “red” ones left for Jesus to ‘absolve’ quietly. Fine! Christ left a Ministry which has been cited elsewhere in posts. The Catholic church again is very clear about the process where the priest is charged with strict confidentiality. Sean77 and friends must obey Jesus in his desire to integrate us into society by sending us back to the Sanhedrin. It is a requirement that we see the priest (somebody he obviously doesn’t like and he doesn’t have to do so) for the process. Jesus assured us of this process and has no hitches at all. The truth is not very palatable for some but the sweet bit of it is that it remains the truth even we attempt to twist it. Take it or leave.To tell me I am departing scripture for traditions of men when you yourself hold to discuss cattiness conflicting with scripture turns the argument on its head.
AMEN!
Cathoholic (here) . . . .However, what we do know is that scripture provides us
with what we need to be fully equipped to know the word of god (sic),
and these scriptures which are god (sic) -breathed
are certain.
.What comprises “these scriptures” Sean77?
Which books and letters comprise “scripture”?
(How can you be “certain”?)
.The same way the Jews were certain that the Tanakh was from God. Only they didn’t claim that the priests were infallible.
.The same way the Jews were certain that the Tanakh was from God.
.Only they didn’t claim that the priests were infallible.
.EXODUS 28:30 30 And in the breastpiece of judgment you shall put the Urim and the Thummim, and they shall be upon Aaron’s heart, when he goes in before the LORD; thus Aaron shall bear the judgment of the people of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.
JOHN 11:49-52 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all; 50 you do not understand that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish.” 51
He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation,
52 and not for the nation only,
but to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.
Is THAT an infallible definition you are giving Sean77?Infallible means infallible. Not sometimes.
So please show me the book, chapter, and verse you are getting your insights on infallibility from Sean77?)Infallible means infallible. Not sometimes.