Hi, Sandusky
Just wanted to clarify that neither Baugh, nor Grudem supports or agrees with the idea that those justified by God can, in any way, forfeit justification once God has given it.
While interesting as a hypothesis - how can it ever be proven? The way I understand OSAS is that after the ‘altar call’ one can do as they will because, they’ve been saved. To my way of thinking, the only way OSAS makes any sense is when you are judged by God and He says, “Well done, enter into Paridise.” Prior to that, we are to work out (with the free gift of God’s Grace and the use of our free will) our salvation in fear and trembling (Phil 2:12)
I know I have limited my presentaton to ‘The Bible’ because this was the
only authorative text, according to Protestants posting to this site.
If others are to be quoted, wouldn’t it be best to also look at the Early Chruch Fathers, e.g., St. Agustine on this topic or Chruch Councils, e.g., Trent, or the teachings of the CC?
The loss of salvation is an important topic and maybe a brief presentation on CC teaching would be appropriate. Here is a link on the teachings of the CC on this topic (
forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=26589 )
**"Predestination is a valid, and Dogmatic, Doctrine of the Church. It cannot be separated from the equally Dogmatic Doctrine of Divine Providence of which it forms a part.
Predestination may not be understood as to mean that God damns any soul to Hell without regard for, or without consideration of the acts of that soul.
Certain people, for reasons know only to God, e.g. the Blessed Mother, are predestined for eternal glory. Whether this predestination is without regard for their good works cannot be known. St. Augustine says, “God is good. God is Just. He can save a person without good works, because He is good; but He cannot condemn anyone without evil works, because He is Just” (Contra. Jul. III, 18, 35).
The certainty of predestination to glory is Heretical. We cannot know that we, or others, have been predestined for glory. It is possible, by observing signs in a person’s life, to think that that person may be so predestined, but certain knowledge is impossible. Thus did Pope Pius XII speak of “devotion to Mary” as a “sign” of predestination.
“Reprobation” is defined as “the eternal Resolve of God’s Will to exclude certain rational creatures from eternal bliss”.
A distinction must be drawn between positive reprobation and negative reprobation.
Positive, unconditioned, reprobation, i.e. that God would condemn a person contrary to the actions of the free will of that person, is Heretical. The statement of Jesus, “I have lost none of them, no not one, except him who was predestined to be lost”, must be understood that Judas did what he did as the free choice of a free will. There are other interpretations that do not indicate Judas lost Salvation. He was certainly “lost” as one of the Apostles, for example.
Positive, conditioned, reprobation occurs with consideration of forseen future demerits.
Negative reprobation is “non-election to eternal bliss, [understood] together with the Divine resolve to permit some creatures to fall into sin” and by their own guilt to lose salvation.
Unanswered is the question as to why God would create a person whom, in His omniscience, He foreknows to be lost by choices foreknown to God but freely made by that person. How to reconcile this with the Infinite Goodness of God is also not answered. Both questions fall within the prerogatives of the Divine Mystery."**
Here is a link for more complete information (
newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm ): "]
**"…The Catholic dogma of predestination regards eternal happiness primarily as the work of God and His grace, but secondarily as the fruit and reward of the meritorious actions of the predestined. The process of predestination consists of the following five steps:
(a) the first grace of vocation, especially faith as the beginning, foundation, and root of justification;
(b) a number of additional, actual graces for the successful accomplishment of justification;
(c) justification itself as the beginning of the state of grace and love;
(d) final perseverance or at least the grace of a happy death;
(e) lastly, the admission to eternal bliss.
If it is a truth of Revelation that there are many who, following this path, seek and find their eternal salvation with infallible certainty, then the existence of Divine predestination is proved (cf. Matthew 25:34; Revelation 20:15). St. Paul says quite explicitly (Romans 8:28 sq.): “we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the first born amongst many brethren. And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.” (Cf. Ephesians 1:4-11) Besides the eternal “foreknowledge” and foreordaining, the Apostle here mentions the various steps of predestination: “vocation”, “justification”, and “glorification”. This belief has been faithfully preserved by Tradition through all the centuries, especially since the time of Augustine."**
God bless,
