Someone can lose their salvation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter guanophore
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4727751
NonCatholic said:
Show me in Hebrews where someone can loose there salvation and work to maintain that salvation? What gospel is that?
Click to expand...
guanophore said:
This post was taken from the Purgatory thread where it was getting off topic.
Click to expand...
Excellent 👍
John 15:6- 10:
6
** Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned**.
7
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.
8
By this is my Father glorified, **that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. **
As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love.
10
If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.
Click to expand...
Remain -
To remain means presumes a person was part of the body of Christ. To NOT REMAIN means one was there and stopped being there.
Dictionary.com:
re⋅main   /rɪˈmeɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-meyn] Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used without object) 1. to continue in the same state; continue to be as specified: to remain at peace.
2. to stay behind or in the same place: to remain at home; I’ll remain here when you go to the airport.
3. to be left after the removal, loss, destruction, etc., of all else: The front wall is all that remains of the fort. ]
Click to expand...
 
So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.
Click to expand...
This quote above, Philippians 2:11-12 follows the beautiful early Christology hymn. St. Paul used the word “Obedient” which is the same word that is used it the hymn to explain how Jesus was “obedient to death.” This obedience is also spoke of is St. Paul’s letter to the Romans 1:5 and 16:26, in the ‘obedience of faith.’ This obedience calls for the same obedience Christ had: the full submission of intellect and will to God. Thus salvation is an issue of submitting your intellect to what God has revealed to us, doctrinal issue, and an issue of submitting your will to God’s will, moral issue.

This is why St. Paul calls the Philippians to “work out their salvation with fear and trembling.” It is not for fear that God will not save them, but that they will not continue to submit their intellect and wills to God everyday. Once someone intellectually rejects what God has revealed or what God wills them to do, they now longer imitate the obedience of Christ. God could not save them because the person has rejected God.
 
There are many quotes from scripture that speak of losing your salvation. Heb 10:26-28 says “For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.” And v.29 takes it a step further, 'How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?" Shall I go on?
 
Someone peeëm NonCatholic and Protestant101. They’re missin’ out on some good info here. 🙂
 
Matariel said:
Someone peeëm NonCatholic and Protestant101. They’re missin’ out on some good info here. 🙂
Click to expand...
Well, at least the lukers and we are learning something. There’s a lot to be said about being challenged to defend your faith. Makes it stronger!🙂
 
qui_est_ce said:
Well, at least the lukers and we are learning something. There’s a lot to be said about being challenged to defend your faith. Makes it stronger!🙂
Click to expand...
Yeah. It took awhile, but the Catholic arguements finally convinced me to leave behind my entrenched fundamentalist Protestant beliefs.

I’m so much happier now. 🙂

Anyway, I’ll peeëm 'em, so you need not worry about that. 😉
 
qui_est_ce said:
You are correct, but the Bible uses Judas as an example of one who rejected Truth in spite the witness of Truth under his very eyes.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct. Hopefully Judas repented at the last moment.
 
Does not the parable of the sower speak to this?

Matthew 13:20-22 "The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

Christians are expected to produce fruit:

Matthew 21:43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.”

Saint Peter also had something to say about those who drifted away:

2 Peter 1:10 “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall”

2 Peter 2:20-21 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.”
 
qui_est_ce said:
You are correct, but the Bible uses Judas as an example of one who rejected Truth in spite the witness of Truth under his very eyes.
Click to expand...
Jesus said of Judas, one of you is a “devil”. All types of religious people name the name of Christ and are deceived because they do not possess, they only possess. Judas was condemned to hell for the very same reason all people are for unbelief.

John 6:70-71 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?” 71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him."

As far as losing your salvation, if you drift away you were never saved.

Ephesians 2:4-10 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and **made us sit **together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Did anyone catch the past tense?

Romans 8:29-30 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Notice the past tense? Why?

1 John 2:18-19 18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

These are the one’s that claimed the name of Christ, but it was only lip service…they did not endure because they were phony. The saved always endure because they are under the care and influence of God and therefore cannot turn away.
 
qui_est_ce said:
Judas Iscariot lost his salvation.
Click to expand...
How could he lose his salvation when he was “the son of perdition that scripture may be fulfilled”
As in John 7:12 “While I was with them I kept them in thy
name those whom thou gavest me have I kept and none
of them is lost but the son of perdition that
scripture may be fulfilled.”
It was in God’s plan.
 
🤷 I’ve never understood the thought of OSAS.
Even when I was a Protestant.

In the Scriptures it talks several times about being careful not to lose your salvation. And it speaks of people who did.

🤷
 
Matariel said:
🤷 I’ve never understood the thought of OSAS.
Even when I was a Protestant.

In the Scriptures it talks several times about being careful not to lose your salvation. And it speaks of people who did.

🤷
Click to expand...
Matariel,
I think fundamentalist denominations such as Baptist, Assembly of God, etc are the ones mainly tauting this notion. And it makes sense because those are the churches that are "feel good", emotional based churches. "Hey once your saved, you have nothing to worry about!" OR DO YOU?
 
Matariel said:
🤷 I’ve never understood the thought of OSAS.
Even when I was a Protestant.

In the Scriptures it talks several times about being careful not to lose your salvation. And it speaks of people who did.

🤷
Click to expand...
Over recent centuries, this has been reduced to the least common denominator of “pre-destination” This, despite the scripture which says:

1 Timothy 2:3-5 “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”

Pre-destination says that you are doomed if you are doomed, no matter what, and vice-versa. Since we have no way of knowing this, why even try? And, if we somehow know that we are destined to Heaven, why not just launch into a life of sin, since you can neither gain Heaven nor lose hell? I don’t get it either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top