Something about Mary

  • Thread starter Thread starter Samuel_Monosov
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Samuel_Monosov

Guest
I’ve been reading up on the Catholic Church, and am now very curious about Mary.

A bit of background. I came from a Jewish very-liberal-Protestant home, where Mary wasn’t really discussed except around Christmas, and she was the little glass figurine you set closest to the Jesus figurine.

When I want to University in the US, a prominent secular institution, and took some philosophy and religious-studies classes, I was told by a feminist teacher that the Catholic teaching on Mary is male chauvinism, because it values women only as sperm-receptacles, since Mary is only valued as a container for Jesus.

My professors said a lot of other things about the Catholic Church that, already, I have found to be less than accurate. I am beginning to become suspicious about their opinions on Catholics and Mary as well.

So how about from your own words? Why is Mary so important? What is so special or good about her? Why do you devote so much time and attention to her? And, if she was such a good and holy person, why didn’t Jesus make her into a priest?

I’m just here to find out your opinions. I’ll ask questions if I run into points of confusion.

Thanks for your help.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
Why is Mary so important? What is so special or good about her? Why do you devote so much time and attention to her? And, if she was such a good and holy person, why didn’t Jesus make her into a priest?
Click to expand...
Mary is so important because without her Jesus would not have become human and we would not have been redeemed.

She was created perfectly by God. Jesus took His humanity from her and He gave her to the rest of mankind as our mother.

We devote so much time and attention to her because she is our mother and a very powerful intercessor for us before God.

God made the priesthood for males only, otherwise there would be no impediment for her to be a priestess.
 
HAHAAHAHAHA sorry to laugh, but TYPICALLY the Catholic church is attacked for QUITE the opposite. For in fact holding Mary up in TOO much esteem and reverence. Most Protestants claim we hold her as a demi-god or on equal footing with God (which is not the truth)

Guess we can’t win, either way. Which is why I sarcastically chuckled.

Mary, in Catholic theology is showed with MANY titles to describe her role.

Theotokos - Greek for “God bearer” aka “Mother of God” because she gave birth to Christ

Queen of Heaven - because she is the mother of our Lord, this would make her “queen” by Earthly definitions

Co-Redemptrix - this is a controversial one, more so then “queen” - it basically postulates that since she said “Yes” to God - and her yes meant that Christ was to be born, and because God waited for HER, throughout all of time. She, in a way, has a role in the salvation of mankind. Her YES made it possible for all of us to be saved through Jesus Christ. Therefore, she is said to be a sorta “co redeemer” in a subordinate role, cooperating WITH her Son. Salvation is through her Son, not her directly, but she cooperated with that.
 
Credo_in_Deum said:
There is so much that could be said on Mary its endless, so I added a link to a great youtube video that explains the Cothlic position on Mary. I hope it helps.

youtube.com/watch?v=bxCBxGmtUos&feature=related
Click to expand...
Thank you for the youtube link 🙂 I will watch it as soon as I am able.

Also if there are any very simple books or articles you would suggest on the subject, those would be helpful. Much of what I have found is used to counter the Protestant aversion to Marian theology, and isn’t very helpful to me, because I’m not a Protestant and so I don’t have that sort of aversion. I don’t really understand it.
 
The question you have asked is huge. I can touch on one aspect, the fact that Mary is a Queen.

We know that the Old Testament forshadows the New Testament and those things forshadowed in the Old Testament are fullfilled in the New Testament. The realities of the New Testament are hinted at by God in the Old Testament as God prepared Israel to recieve its Messiah.

God has revealed the Second Person of the Trinity as a King. This is revealed truth. The Kingship of Jesus is the whole theme of the Gospel of Matthew. That Jesus is King of kings cannot be denied. And the kings of the Old Testament applointed their mother as queen.

Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king’s mother, who sat at his right. (1 Kings 2:19)

Bathsheba was King David’s wife, but was Solomon’s mother. We see King Solomon’s behavior towards his mother after he took the throne in 1 Kings 2.

Kings paid homage to no one, not even their wives, but here the King pays homage to his mother. No one except kings and queens sit on thrones and here the king brings a throne for his mother, and seats her on his right, a place of honor. Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother, is clearly a queen.

The Hebrew word for queen-mother or literally “Grand lady” is Gebirah. We see references to the Gebirah elswhere in the Old Testament.

*Jehu met the kinsmen of Ahazi’ah king of Judah, and he said, “Who are you?” And they answered, "We are the kinsmen of Ahazi’ah, and we came down to visit the royal princes and the sons of the queen mother." (2 Kings 10:13)

This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, the artisans and smiths had left Jerusalem. (Jerimiah 29:2)*

The practice of appointing one’s mother to the position of queen rather than one’s wife makes sense because often wives were the daughters of military allies. To appoint the daughter of a military ally was to elevate the blood relative of a potential military rival to a position of great authority. The mother of the king was often the only one who could be trusted totally. In fact, the various kings throught he centuries are listed in the Books of Kings and the Books of Chronicals, and with every king, the king’s mother is also listed.

*In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, son of Nebat, Abijam became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Maacah, daughter of Abishalom. (1 Kings 15:1-2)

In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, Abijah became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother was named Micaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah. (2 Chronicals 13:1-2)

Uzziah was sixteen years old when he became king, and he reigned fifty-two years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Jecoliah, from Jerusalem. (2 Chronicals 26:3)*

There are about 20 such passages in the books of Kings and Chronicles. God is telling us something about these women. God is telling us the names of these women because God is telling us that they are queens. The practice of appointing a queen-mother is widely documented outside the Bible, is not limited to only Israel, and persists even today. We had a queen-mother in England as recently as 2002.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament kings, and his mother is his queen.

A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars… She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne. (Revelation 12:1-2,5)

In John’s vision in the Book of Revelation, we see a woman with a crown. Only kings and queens wear crowns. The woman wearing the crown has a son who “rules the nations.” This is exactly consistent with what we see in the Old Testament - a ruler son whose mother is a queen.

And Catholics believe the woman in Revelation 12 to be Mary. It is also representative of the Church, of Israel, and probably other things - there are many layers to scripture - but Catholics have always viewed Mary as a queen. Christ is a King. Mary is Christ’s Queen-mother. This is why Catholicism has often involked Mary under the title “Queen of Heaven and Earth.”

If Mary is Queen of Heaven, then she is second only to Jesus the King.

If Mary is Queen of Heaven then she is above all the angels and saints.

All the angels and saints in Heaven bow their knee to her and pay homage to both the King and to the Queen.

That is exactly what Catholics do.

-Tim-
 
Your teacher must have had the opinion that all Christians view Mary the same. Not very educated of her.

Some Protestants view her as only a receptacle, most don’t. Many view her as a good and righteous person.

Catholics and Orthodox view her MUCH differently than either of these. She is the Ark of the New Covenant, the Queen of Heaven. She is the highest and greatest creature that God created, and worthy of her own special veneration (not worship). The angel said to her “Hail”, which is the greeting reserved for royalty. He also addressed her as “full of grace”. She was completely and totally full of God’s grace.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
Thank you for the youtube link 🙂 I will watch it as soon as I am able.

Also if there are any very simple books or articles you would suggest on the subject, those would be helpful. Much of what I have found is used to counter the Protestant aversion to Marian theology, and isn’t very helpful to me, because I’m not a Protestant and so I don’t have that sort of aversion. I don’t really understand it.
Click to expand...
Two of the best books I have read regarding Marian theology are:

True Devotion to Mary by Saint Louis De Monfort

The Admirable Heart of Mary by Saint John Eudes

The one by Saint John Eudes has some very very deep stuff. Both authors are very easy to read, and John is nice because he splits his stuff into smaller sections that are good for reflection.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
Thank you for the youtube link 🙂 I will watch it as soon as I am able.

Also if there are any very simple books or articles you would suggest on the subject, those would be helpful. Much of what I have found is used to counter the Protestant aversion to Marian theology, and isn’t very helpful to me, because I’m not a Protestant and so I don’t have that sort of aversion. I don’t really understand it.
Click to expand...
Father William Most wrote Mary in our Life. You might want to read the chapters that interest you.
 
Wow - I’ve been on these forums for many years, and this one is completely new. That doesn’t happen very often.

If you search the forum for the term “Mary” you will find thousands of posts that complain that the Catholic Church honors Mary TOO MUCH (many accuse Catholics of actually worshiping Mary, sometimes even in place of God). They even have “proof” - a Rosary has 53 “Hail Marys” but only six “Our Fathers” and such. More parish churches (including my own) are named in honor of Mary than Jesus or any other Saint. Liturgically we don’t refer to her simply as “Mary” but by various titles, such as “the Blessed Virgin Mary” (the call sign of my local Catholic radio station is KBVM - Blessed Virgin Mary).

I promise you that this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that the Catholic Church doesn’t honor Mary ENOUGH. Wow. That is completely new to me.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
I’ve been reading up on the Catholic Church, and am now very curious about Mary.

So how about from your own words? Why is Mary so important? What is so special or good about her? Why do you devote so much time and attention to her? And, if she was such a good and holy person, why didn’t Jesus make her into a priest?

I’m just here to find out your opinions. I’ll ask questions if I run into points of confusion.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
For starters…this should be a short read for you…chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mary.pdf

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm49.htm

TO THE DISCIPLE HE SAID, BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER
  1. After recalling the presence of Mary and the other women at the Lord’s cross, St John relates: “When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, behold, your son!’. Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!’” (Jn 19:26-27).
The words of the dying Jesus actually show that his first intention was not to entrust his Mother to John, but to entrust the disciple to Mary and to give her a new maternal role. Moreover, the epithet “woman”, also used by Jesus at the wedding in Cana to lead Mary to a new dimension of her existence as Mother, shows how the Saviour’s words are not the fruit of a simple sentiment of filial affection but are meant to be put at a higher level.

Instead, Jesus’ words acquire their most authentic meaning in the context of his saving mission. Spoken at the moment of the redemptive sacrifice, they draw their loftiest value precisely from this sublime circumstance. In fact, after Jesus’ statements to his Mother, the Evangelist adds a significant clause: “Jesus, knowing that all was now finished…” (Jn 19:28), as if he wished to stress that he had brought his sacrifice to completion by entrusting his Mother to John, and in him to all men, whose Mother she becomes in the work of salvation.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
I’ve been reading up on the Catholic Church, and am now very curious about Mary.

A bit of background. I came from a Jewish very-liberal-Protestant home, where Mary wasn’t really discussed except around Christmas, and she was the little glass figurine you set closest to the Jesus figurine.

When I want to University in the US, a prominent secular institution, and took some philosophy and religious-studies classes, I was told by a feminist teacher that the Catholic teaching on Mary is male chauvinism, because it values women only as sperm-receptacles, since Mary is only valued as a container for Jesus.

My professors said a lot of other things about the Catholic Church that, already, I have found to be less than accurate. I am beginning to become suspicious about their opinions on Catholics and Mary as well.

So how about from your own words? Why is Mary so important? What is so special or good about her? Why do you devote so much time and attention to her? And, if she was such a good and holy person, why didn’t Jesus make her into a priest?

I’m just here to find out your opinions. I’ll ask questions if I run into points of confusion.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
I think that’s very strange what your teacher said, because - we see Mary much more than a “vessel”, that is more of the Protestant understanding… we see her as our Mother in the order of grace, and the Queen of Heaven because Jesus is King, and we believe she is placed even higher than the Archangels and second only to God. Her prayers are very powerful. Also, she said yes to God to bring His Son into the world, she could have said no. We also believe that since her conception, she has been free of original sin, - she is still saved through Christ’s merits, but this happened at her conception rather than at Baptism as is the case for the rest of us. God also gave Mary so much grace, that she did not sin at all during her life: in the Bible, she is called “full of grace”. Jesus received His human nature from her so we honour her. 🙂

God bless!
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
I’ve been reading up on the Catholic Church, and am now very curious about Mary.

A bit of background. I came from a Jewish very-liberal-Protestant home, where Mary wasn’t really discussed except around Christmas, and she was the little glass figurine you set closest to the Jesus figurine.

When I want to University in the US, a prominent secular institution, and took some philosophy and religious-studies classes, I was told by a feminist teacher that the Catholic teaching on Mary is male chauvinism, because it values women only as sperm-receptacles, since Mary is only valued as a container for Jesus.

My professors said a lot of other things about the Catholic Church that, already, I have found to be less than accurate. I am beginning to become suspicious about their opinions on Catholics and Mary as well.

So how about from your own words? Why is Mary so important? What is so special or good about her? Why do you devote so much time and attention to her? And, if she was such a good and holy person, why didn’t Jesus make her into a priest?

I’m just here to find out your opinions. I’ll ask questions if I run into points of confusion.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Im not very impressed with your prominent secular institution if these are the types of professors they hire.

First and Foremost, have you ever heard of a family that didnt have a mother? What family would be complete without a mother? We see God as our Father, We see Jesus as our Lord and Savior but also as a brother. He came to earth and took on a human nature joining us and teaching us as a wise brother should. Where is the female role in all this? Mary fullfills the female role for us in the family of faith. The Christian Religous philosophy is about how to live our lives in such a way that is pleasing to God. The bible contains many lessons as to proper as well as improper behavior.

While at the time of jesus the world was mostly a paternal society the mother held a very high posistion of esteem. Even today what child or adult could refuse a mothers request? What person would refuse their mother?

While protestants have ignored mary, their view of the christian family is without a mother. As Catholics, we see all those who believe in christ as family. Those who have gone before us as cousins uncles and aunts. Those who have died and gone on to be with our lord are alive and well in spirit with him and they have his ear. So we ask Mary and the saints to pray to God and our Lord on our behalves.

Your teacher sounds like a radical feminist. probably also anti religious. She fails you in that her personal beliefs intrude into the course of study, philosophy. This course should be presented to you in an unbiased manner for you to decide what each philosophy professes. Not very professional on her part.

I just thought of an interesting question for your teacher. In todays world we are bombarded with secularism as a way of living, in other words, a philosophical based society. The question would be can she name a secular based society that has withstood the test of time that was started years ago and still exist today? The Catholic churches philosophy of life can make that claim.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
I’ve been reading up on the Catholic Church, and am now very curious about Mary.

A bit of background. I came from a Jewish very-liberal-Protestant home, where Mary wasn’t really discussed except around Christmas, and she was the little glass figurine you set closest to the Jesus figurine.

When I want to University in the US, a prominent secular institution, and took some philosophy and religious-studies classes, I was told by a feminist teacher that the Catholic teaching on Mary is male chauvinism, because it values women only as sperm-receptacles, since Mary is only valued as a container for Jesus.

My professors said a lot of other things about the Catholic Church that, already, I have found to be less than accurate. I am beginning to become suspicious about their opinions on Catholics and Mary as well.

So how about from your own words? Why is Mary so important? What is so special or good about her? Why do you devote so much time and attention to her? And, if she was such a good and holy person, why didn’t Jesus make her into a priest?

I’m just here to find out your opinions. I’ll ask questions if I run into points of confusion.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Be VERY suspicious of secular or atheists giving you the straight dope on religion, which they are not a part of, and don’t believe in.
I have found those sources to be anything BUT unbiased.

I’m also finding an increasing number of Professors, using their classrooms as a way to forward their own opinions and biased perspectives on their students.

From Philosophy teachers to English teachers. I’ve gotten reports from quite a few college aged students about this sorta Proselytizing from the classroom.
 
No matter our station in life, or our belief system, we are called to seek the truth. A good sign it is that you have analysed that which you have heard and have come to question it. Naturally, a couple of suggestions have come to mind, but the YouTube video on Mary in scripture is a fine place to begin. Since the faith is so much more than just Mary, I would suggest a book which gives a good overview of the faith - one which explains it in plain English - even if that English may have a distinctly American flavor. That would be the well-known Catholicism for Dummies, which is written by two quite well-educated Priests. Do not be put off by the title, as it is a merely one bit of the series of “Dummies” books. If you had further interest after that, there are three volumes written by well-known Catholic author Mark Shea, entitled "Mary, Mother of the Son. They may be obtained individually, according to your need or desire to learn about her.

We learn from scripture that all that is created came into being through Jesus (John 1:1-3). Thus, Jesus created His own mother for the express purpose of giving Him flesh, and caring for Him whilst He matured. I rather think he would have done a bang up job of it.
 
Mary, Our Blessed Virgin Mother of Our Lord, is so important for us and should be considered our own mother. I cannot understand how one can be dedicated to God yet ignore Mary and her love and graces. It was God who made her Queen of Heaven, and we her loyal subjects. It was God who made her the dispenser of all of His graces making it so that no grace falls from Heaven that doesn’t first pass through her most virginal and gentle hands. We are all subject to Mary, for she is indeed Queen. She pleads on our behalf constantly. She has all authority over the Saints, Angels, and even the demons. The last, though they cannot stand her sight, are forced to respect her. For to do anything else would be a terrible blasphemy. She is the destroyer of those damned hell-beings. She is a model for all decent Christians to follow. In her chastity, obedience, wisdom, and gentleness. When Our Lord was lost, who found Him? When we lose Christ from our lives, who is it then that will lead us back to Him? Just as the star lead the Maji to Christ, so will Mary lead us to Christ. She acts as the very staircase on which we are to ascend to Heaven, after all!

We do not put Mary above God, certainly not. For all correct devotion to Mary, ultimately leads to Christ. She is the vessel that leads us to Christ. So many correct analogies can be placed to her. She is so vital. So important. So crucial. Both then, now, and forever. She will constantly aid her children and defend them, so naturally, we must defend her unblemished honor and purity from the heathens who attempt to defile it. It is our mission and our goal. Deus lo vult.

~ Pius :knight1:
 
Not always that I get a response from a Blessed Pope!

Thank you all for the resources. I’ll read what you have to offer.

Lots of thinking to do.
 
Samuel_Monosov said:
Thank you for the youtube link 🙂 I will watch it as soon as I am able…Much of what I have found is used to counter the Protestant aversion to Marian theology, and isn’t very helpful to me, because I’m not a Protestant and so I don’t have that sort of aversion. I don’t really understand it.
Click to expand...
You are right in that it mostly counters some of the Protestant misconceptions.
But I DO think it still answers your question to a certain degree. It is helpful in realizing that what your Professor told you was 180 degrees wrong.
That video is helpful is showing the Catholic view of Mary overall - and that view seems anything BUT simply seeing her as a vessel or incubator for Christ.

I mean, assuming that video actually portrays the overall Catholic view of Mary, and it isn’t a clever deception to trick the world into believing that we love her, when we truly think very low of her, of course. Your professor COULD argue that this video is some sort of conspiracy to hide what Catholics truly believe. - Many anti-Catholics make crazy claims like that all the time.

So the only way to logically, without a vast conspiracy theory behind it, to interpret that video, is that the Catholic faith MUST think very deeply and pour a lot of energy into Mary.

I think that is the correct take-away from that video. Protestant focus or not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top