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Valmabar
Guest
Ben: That’s interesting that you have used that metaphor. And you are not too far from the Truth. The world belongs to God, but He left us, the Jews, as the guarantors that you, the Gentiles enjoy free rent.
I’m using these excerpt from Ben’s answear to NotWhorty just for make some point.
I have to agree on some of the points that Ben Masada is making because is not taking it from the emptness. For example, even the Vatican agrees on that, the Gospel of John was not written by the John Apostle. The same is true for the author of Revelation, which was John of Patmos.
And here is where Jesus did something bad. He did not wrote his own biography either his Theology. He left it for others to do. Is not that he committed a sin but will be always a doubt if many of the statements in the Blble’s text were primary made by him. I am not talking about the that believe in a solely authorship of the Bible and written through whisper by human writers. These ones just believe, does not matter for them if what they believe is true or not as they believe. Problably nothing will convince them to chance mind but it also not make their belief truthfull. The doubt will be only for those that want to believe but need to see it by themselves. Included me.
Also I have two points to make on the Ben’s say above. As he do not be called by the name of Ben Esau, some of the readers also don’t want be called by the name of Gentile. Not that it is a big deal. If in the past some of our ancestors were Gentile these does not make us Gentile too. The Jew came from Gentiles too. It is what the Scholars, even from the Jewish Faith, have been talking. Recently I discover some site in the Internet that gave me a glipse on my genealogy and it says that, my ancestors were Gentiles, Jews, Muslins and most recently only Catholics. So, be descendant of beliefs does not make me one of them.
Other point is that, since some of the insertions in the Bible are fabricated due to vanity, prejudice and pride of their real human authors the only Guarantor of us all is God, not Jews, Christians, Muslins or Gentiles.
I’m using these excerpt from Ben’s answear to NotWhorty just for make some point.
I have to agree on some of the points that Ben Masada is making because is not taking it from the emptness. For example, even the Vatican agrees on that, the Gospel of John was not written by the John Apostle. The same is true for the author of Revelation, which was John of Patmos.
And here is where Jesus did something bad. He did not wrote his own biography either his Theology. He left it for others to do. Is not that he committed a sin but will be always a doubt if many of the statements in the Blble’s text were primary made by him. I am not talking about the that believe in a solely authorship of the Bible and written through whisper by human writers. These ones just believe, does not matter for them if what they believe is true or not as they believe. Problably nothing will convince them to chance mind but it also not make their belief truthfull. The doubt will be only for those that want to believe but need to see it by themselves. Included me.
Also I have two points to make on the Ben’s say above. As he do not be called by the name of Ben Esau, some of the readers also don’t want be called by the name of Gentile. Not that it is a big deal. If in the past some of our ancestors were Gentile these does not make us Gentile too. The Jew came from Gentiles too. It is what the Scholars, even from the Jewish Faith, have been talking. Recently I discover some site in the Internet that gave me a glipse on my genealogy and it says that, my ancestors were Gentiles, Jews, Muslins and most recently only Catholics. So, be descendant of beliefs does not make me one of them.
Other point is that, since some of the insertions in the Bible are fabricated due to vanity, prejudice and pride of their real human authors the only Guarantor of us all is God, not Jews, Christians, Muslins or Gentiles.
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NotWorthy
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Or God who showed his righteous anger numerous times in the OT?
Temper! Jesus giving vent to his temper! Do you know what you have just compared him to? One of those angry gods of the Olympian Pantheon of Greece.
Ben:
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NotWorthy
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First of all, “Not-Whorty”? That’s an interesting (and funny) mis-spelling. Although it does adequately describe the clear complexion of my face, its the first time I’ve been described that way!
But more importantly, when did the Vatican agree that the Apostle John did not write the 4th Gospel. That’s news to me. And that John of Patmos is not the Apostle John.
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FionnMacCumhail
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Actually, Ben Esau, modern Jews such as yourself do not descend from Jacob, but from Esau. Your ancestors were converted to Mosaism by John Hyrcanus later corrupting into Pharisaical Rabbinic Judaism, a religion of racism, self-worship, superstition, and deceit. You are a Gentile, not an Israelite.
Quite frankly, Ben, I’m not trying to convert you. I know that you are already blinded by your own arrogance. I’m just exposing your religion for what it is; racist, anti-gentile, anti-Christian, and self-worshiping.
I fail to see how it is hypocritical. Indeed, you are being hypocritical, yourself, regarding the New Testament; if a quote that disproves your claims is cited you either claim it is “anti-Semitic” or a “forgery”, but if you think it agrees with you, then that part is correct, and not forged.
I find your arrogance to be quite annoying as well as your blasphemy. Apparently, some of the moderators here would prefer to be shabbos goyim and honor the Jews, rather than God. I don’t feel that I’m being hostile, rather I simply responding to your anti-Christian/anti-Gentile posts.
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NotWorthy
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Can you please explain this statement? I was under the impression that the New Testament was inspired, as well as any insertions (like, maybe John 21 and Mark 16).
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happymommy
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I meant on this thread
I am glad you asked. Five former Gentiles have
converted. Two got married and each one has two children. It means the Almighty has enriched the Faith of Jesus, which was
Judaism, with nine precious souls as a result of my work. In addition, two former Jews who had embraced Christianity through
“Jews-for-Jesus” have returned to Judaism. Isn’t it wonderful?
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
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I meant on this thread
You mean on this forum? Not yet. Superstition here must be sweeter.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
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That’s different. Any claim of emotion attributed to God is to be interpreted methaphorically. God is incorporeal. The anger is of man, which is granted Divine claim to either be taken seriously or to reflect the authority of the man in charge.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
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Ben Masada;4798910:
Do you believe that line in the book of John? So do I. Salvation
comes from God through His chosen people, the Jews. Jesus
is “the king of the Jews”. But now, look a little further in the
story: John 4:25 says, "The woman said to Him: I know there
is a Messiah coming…When He comes, He will tell us everything. Jesus replied, “I who speak to you am He.”
QUOTE]
Yes, that line is within the 20 percent of the NT
I believe, but not the sequence to that line. I firmly believe your words when you say, “Salvation comes from God through His chosen People, the Jews.” That’s exactly what Jesus meant.
But that Jesus was king of the Jews, we all know that he was no king. You are just being too romantic because of your faith. The only thing royal that Jesus ever got on earth was that plate on the
top of his cross. I hope that was not true, because it was too humiliating to him.
Now, that Jesus told that woman in John 4:25 that he was the Messiah, is a later interpolation by either the gospel writer, who wrote that 60+ years after Jesus was gone or by the Fathers of the Church when they selected which books would form the Canon of the NT in 327 CE.
Now, let me tell you why Jesus could not have declared that he was the Messiah. When he was gone his disciples organized the Sect of Nazarenes and chose Jerusalem for their headquarters. For about 30 years they coexisted peacefully with mainstream Judaism, making converts even among the Pharisees. When Paul showed up preaching that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected, the local Jews were on an uproar to kill him for preaching heresy in Jerusalem. How about Jesus’ disciples, what were they preaching about Jesus? Mind you that
they were as surprised as the other Jews of the things in the gospel of Paul.
Ben:
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Now, let me tell you why Jesus could not have declared that he was the Messiah. When he was gone his disciples organized the Sect of Nazarenes and chose Jerusalem for their headquarters. For about 30 years they coexisted peacefully with mainstream Judaism, making converts even among the Pharisees.
B]Yes, the early Christian converts were also still practicing Jews.
When Paul showed up preaching that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected, the local Jews were on an uproar to kill him for preaching heresy in Jerusalem.
***There were always such divisions and controversies among Jews contemporaneous with Jesus. They existed during his ministry; they existed after his ministry.
…****How about Jesus’ disciples, what were they preaching about Jesus? Mind you that
they were as surprised as the other Jews of the things in the gospel of Paul.
Evidence?
(It’s the Epistle(s) of Paul)
Ben:
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Justafool
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If Jesus/God allowed or participated in Noah’s flood then killing millions including children and babies could be considered a bad thing.
It could also be said that He ignored his loyalty to his own race and is a traitor for not staying God’s/His hand in this issue.
The flood was a direct result of God allowing the sons of God to impregnate humans. His fault, our punishment. Is this an injustice and is that a bad thing?
It could also be said that He ignored his loyalty to his own race and is a traitor for not staying God’s/His hand in this issue.
The flood was a direct result of God allowing the sons of God to impregnate humans. His fault, our punishment. Is this an injustice and is that a bad thing?
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AmbroseSJ
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You could not possibly be more wrong about everything.
There is no sense quoting scripture to you, as, by your own admission, you only accept a certain 20% that comforts you, and discard the other 80% as interpolations and fabrications.
Why do you say these things? Are you looking for weak-minded individuals that might give credence to your dreadful and impious declamations that you might lead them into your fringe brand of Judaism? I don’t think you will get any traction with Roman Catholics. Maybe Unitarians or Mormons would find your thoughts interesting.
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Justafool
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8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he csuffered;Perhaps not on this thread. (Although saying Jesus “didn’t give a damn” is pretty strong.)
On other threads, such as ‘writing in the sand,’ he called Jesus a sinner just like the rest of humanity.
OTOH, I do not call for Ben being banned, but merely corrected and enlightened with more comprehensive and less prejudiced ‘exegesis’ than he is selectively employing.
(New Testament | Hebrews5:8)
Yes, even though Jesus was perfect, he was still able to learn, and grow. One way to define perfect would be a being who eternally progresses.
If Jesus learned obedience that would mean that he disobeyed.
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cheeto1
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NotWorthy
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And Jesus’ anger can’t be interpreted metaphorically? When he overturned the tables and declared that they were turning his Father’s house into “a den of thieves”, there was nothing deeper than the literal going on?
That’s different. Any claim of emotion attributed to God is to be interpreted methaphorically. God is incorporeal. The anger is of man, which is granted Divine claim to either be taken seriously or to reflect the authority of the man in charge.
Ben:
Hmmmm
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Elizabeth502
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No. It can mean that he learned a deeper meaning and deeper experience of obedience, such as he enumerates in the Gospel of Matthew, etc.
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NotWorthy
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This is true, Elizabeth. “By our mistakes” is not the only means of learning, thank goodness.
Growing and maturing and personal experience are all great aids in learning.
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Justafool
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He still missed the mark. Some call that sin.
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Justafool
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This is true, Elizabeth. “By our mistakes” is not the only means of learning, thank goodness.
Growing and maturing and personal experience are all great aids in learning.
Would Jesus/God using a genocidal flood against man be called something bad?
Or is genocide and killing people good?
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