Something Bad That Jesus Did?

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No need to say that they are not in the business of converting Jews. I am in the business of being converted by someone who has something to say, which makes sense. That’s the big problem: I don’t find any.

Ben: :rolleyes:
Hi Ben - -

I’ve been following your threads with interest - seriously! You bring up some good points and some questions which are difficult to answer.

However, now I have a question for you, which I hope you won’t find too difficult to answer. 😉

We get that you don’t agree with Christianity and with our viewpoints on Jesus and God. That’s cool - you don’t have to share our viewpoint.

But would you please consider starting a thread where, rather than trying to convince us our beliefs are wrong, you tell us what your beliefs are and try to convince us that you are right.

I’m quite sure there’s more to Judaism than just telling other religions why they’re wrong - right? 😉

Thanks in advance! 👍
 
How did you come to believe in nearly 20 percent of the NT?
What is it that you hope or wish somebody would say?
From ten long years of studies in the NT with the
purpose to find proofs for Jesus Messiahship. All these years trying to make sense from the endless contradictions until I found
out a method to solve those contradictions: By separating 20 percent of what really came out of Jesus’ lips or about him as real,
and considering the other 80 percent as interpolations by either
the gospel writers or by the Fathers of the Church when they selected the books they needed to get into the Canon of the NT.

Ben: 🙂
 
No Valmabar, you cause me no pain. 🙂 I can follow your logic to a certain point, based on things you say. Maybe the Trinity is too difficult, indeed it is a Sacred Mystery. But if we can not agree that Jesus is God, then you are just speaking in terms of modern Judaism. 2nd Temple Judaism rejected Jesus as God too. Yes there were many followers FROM 2nd Temple Judaism, but as a religion, Judaism has never accepted Jesus as God.

You are not a bad person because you don’t agree with me. God loves you and me as long as we seek to do His will, and aim for the Truth, with His help. Maybe you will never believe Jesus is God, but as long as you are sure, in your heart, that you are doing what you believe to be truthful, you will be with God too someday. 🙂
May God Give us a New Breath of Life into our nostrils.

In that we agree. We don’t have to agree on each other for to know God. But, I am sorry again, only those that say have Sacred Mystery in the Existence of God don’t know Him well. What we don’t know we need say, Don’t know. And we should ask help from those that say, I know. If it is hard, ask God Himself because what Pleases Him more than Give Something to each to those that are hungry for Knowledge?

Say, It is a Mystery does not help nobody. I understand your precaution in to not say that I am right. Yes, I admit, I can be wrong. And I will keep looking for to test my beliefs. For, even the saints can be wrong about something why not me also?

Just a correction. I am not a modern Jew. I am a Catholic and think I am from the good kind. I am from those that saw the water coming inside of the ship and said, let save the ship instead of abandon it.

God is not a Mystery. He is Revelation.
 
I found out a method to solve those contradictions: By separating 20 percent of what really came out of Jesus’ lips or about him as real, and considering the other 80 percent as interpolations
I am interested to know how you came to separate the
20 percent that was real. What was your method for seperating
the 20 percent that was real from the 80 percent interpolations?
You are kind to answer so many questions…thank you…
 
Jesus turned Judaism upsidedown! He was quite radical in his thinking. He did come to bring salvation, but not everyone, especially the traditional priests, were very receptive to him He came to abolish the old hypocritical laws and displays. He challenged their authority. Naturally, they did not want to hear what he said. They were deaf and blind to his words, as Isaiah said. He did fulfill a lot of what the prophets told people. I won’t go into all of them. Just because Jesus was amazing and strange, doesn’t mean he wasn’t true!
May God Send us a Little of His Patience

I agree Christine that Ben Masada need to be more specific on what he is saying but you too need to do the same for use phrasies such us, “He came to abolish old hypocritical laws and displays.” Jesus said he came to fulfill the laws and the Prophets, so they would never be hypocritical. He also confirmed some, such as the Ten Commandments.

May the Blessing of God Be with us all.
 
May God Send us a Little of His Patience

I agree Christine that Ben Masada need to be more specific on what he is saying but you too need to do the same for use phrasies such us, “He came to abolish old hypocritical laws and displays.” Jesus said he came to fulfill the laws and the Prophets, so they would never be hypocritical. He also confirmed some, such as the Ten Commandments.

May the Blessing of God Be with us all.
I’m thinking more on the lines of this, when I speak of Jesus condemning hypocrisy:

Matt. 23:16-22) “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

Or this in Luke
Luke 11:39
The Lord said to him, “Oh you Pharisees! Although you cleanse the outside of the cup and the dish, inside you are filled with plunder and evil.
40
You fools! Did not the maker of the outside also make the inside?
41
But as to what is within, give alms, and behold, everything will be clean for you.
42
Woe to you Pharisees! You pay tithes of mint and of rue and of every garden herb, but you pay no attention to judgment and to love for God. These you should have done, without overlooking the others.
43
Woe to you Pharisees! You love the seat of honor in synagogues and greetings in marketplaces.
44
Woe to you! You are like unseen graves 11 over which people unknowingly walk.”
45
Then one of the scholars of the law 12 said to him in reply, “Teacher, by saying this you are insulting us too.”
46
And he said, “Woe also to you scholars of the law! You impose on people burdens hard to carry, but you yourselves do not lift one finger to touch them.
47
Woe to you! You build the memorials of the prophets whom your ancestors killed.
48
Consequently, you bear witness and give consent to the deeds of your ancestors, for they killed them and you do the building.
49
Therefore, the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles; 13 some of them they will kill and persecute’
50
in order that this generation might be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world,
51
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah 14 who died between the altar and the temple building. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be charged with their blood!
52
Woe to you, scholars of the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge. You yourselves did not enter and you stopped those trying to enter.”
53
When he left, the scribes and Pharisees began to act with hostility toward him and to interrogate him about many things,
54
for they were plotting to catch him at something he might say.
 
Yesterday I was asked if I could think of anything bad that Jesus could have ever done. I thought for a while and the following came to my mind:
mk. 7: "24 And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. * And he entered a house, and would not have any one know it; yet he could not be hid. 25 But immediately a woman, whose little daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell down at his feet. 26 Now the woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 And he said to her, “Let the children first be fed, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 28 But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.” 29 And he said to her, “For this saying you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.” 30 And she went home, and found the child lying in bed, and the demon gone***
 
May God Send us a Little of His Patience

I agree Christine that Ben Masada need to be more specific on what he is saying but you too need to do the same for use phrasies such us, “He came to abolish old hypocritical laws and displays.” Jesus said he came to fulfill the laws and the Prophets, so they would never be hypocritical. He also confirmed some, such as the Ten Commandments.

May the Blessing of God Be with us all.
Uh, how many times did Jesus call the Pharisees hypocrites? Why? For making laws that bound the Jewish faithful, all the while propping up their own authority. You realize most of the ritualistic cleansing laws that the Pharisees imposed on the Jews were originally only meant for the Jewish priesthood?

Appended: I see Christine handled the hypocritical laws issue rather well in post #181. Sorry to be redundant.
 
Ben Masada;4778603:
Yesterday I was asked if I could think of anything bad that Jesus could have ever done. I thought for a while and the following came to my mind:
mk. 7: "24 And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. * And he entered a house, and would not have any one know it; yet he could not be hid. 25 But immediately a woman, whose little daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell down at his feet. 26 Now the woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 And he said to her, “Let the children first be fed, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 28 But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.” 29 And he said to her, “For this saying you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.” 30 And she went home, and found the child lying in bed, and the demon gone***
.

Ben o buddy, you assume that we lazy, ignorant and stupid.:nope:

God bless you my friend:D

May God Introduce Truth in our minds.

Maybe Ben is not entirely wrong. Maybe you only need to know what is to be called by the name dog or puppy in the Middle East. Different culture have different mean for the same names.

The Understand of God be with us.
 
PJM;4831540:
May God Introduce Truth in our minds.

Maybe Ben is not entirely wrong. Maybe you only need to know what is to be called by the name dog or puppy in the Middle East. Different culture have different mean for the same names.

The Understand of God be with us.
When did Jesus call her a dog. Was he just using an analogy?

It seems that in truth our good Lord was testing her Faith (all the while knowing the results… He is God, of course!) and letting her display this faith to His Disciples.

But in regards to the dog in ancient Israel. It was an unclean animal and was not thought highly of in any means.
 
Uh, how many times did Jesus call the Pharisees hypocrites? Why? For making laws that bound the Jewish faithful, all the while propping up their own authority. You realize most of the ritualistic cleansing laws that the Pharisees imposed on the Jews were originally only meant for the Jewish priesthood?

Appended: I see Christine handled the hypocritical laws issue rather well in post #181. Sorry to be redundant./QUOT

May God Give us His Comfort.

Your primary text did not specified so well of which laws you were talking about. Know it is clear.

May God Look AT us.
 
Valmabar;4832124:
When did Jesus call her a dog. Was he just using an analogy?

It seems that in truth our good Lord was testing her Faith (all the while knowing the results… He is God, of course!) and letting her display this faith to His Disciples.

But in regards to the dog in ancient Israel. It was an unclean animal and was not thought highly of in any means.
You said.
 
Uh, how many times did Jesus call the Pharisees hypocrites? Why? For making laws that bound the Jewish faithful, all the while propping up their own authority. You realize most of the ritualistic cleansing laws that the Pharisees imposed on the Jews were originally only meant for the Jewish priesthood?

Appended: I see Christine handled the hypocritical laws issue rather well in post #181. Sorry to be redundant.[/QUOT

May God Give us His Comfort.

Your primary text did not specified so well of which laws you were talking about. Know it is clear.

May God Look AT us.
As I mentioned, Christine showed where Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites. He shows that Jesus made laws that bound them down. They (the spiritual leaders of Israel) made them twice as fit for hell as they are themselves.
[/quote]
 
Ben Masada;4778603:
Ben, Ben, Ben:tsktsk:

Ben o buddy, you assume that we lazy, ignorant and stupid.:nope:

God bless you my friend:D
No, that’s not what I thought. I thought you guys could enjoy Literature in a good elaborated prose. What’s the difference between what I elaborated and what it’s written? I elaborated on evidences. Everything is down on the paper. I just made it a little tastier to the tongue buds of people’s minds. Flat food without salt awakes no appetite. In his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said, “You are the salt of the earth.” That’s in Matthew 5:13. Therefore, I am only restoring the flavor to your flat food.

Ben: 😃
 
I am interested to know how you came to separate the
20 percent that was real. What was your method for seperating
the 20 percent that was real from the 80 percent interpolations?
You are kind to answer so many questions…thank you…
There are a few things about Jesus and of him which is Jewish. Jesus was Jewish and an observant Jew at that. Therefore, anything Jewish about him and historically feasible is part of the 20 percent. Anything not Jewish, or historically impossible within the Jewish context is part of the 80 percent of interpolations. I hope this will help you for an answer.

Ben: 👍
 
Hi Ben - -

I’ve been following your threads with interest - seriously! You bring up some good points and some questions which are difficult to answer.

However, now I have a question for you, which I hope you won’t find too difficult to answer. 😉

We get that you don’t agree with Christianity and with our viewpoints on Jesus and God. That’s cool - you don’t have to share our viewpoint.

But would you please consider starting a thread where, rather than trying to convince us our beliefs are wrong, you tell us what your beliefs are and try to convince us that you are right.

I’m quite sure there’s more to Judaism than just telling other religions why they’re wrong - right? 😉

Thanks in advance! 👍
The best way for a man to desire a new home is to become homeless first.

Ben: 😉
 
Jesus turned Judaism upsidedown! He was quite radical in his thinking.
Really! As I can see, you are not doing your homework. Why don’t you read Matthew 5:17-19? Do you call that
turning Judaism upside down, and being quite radical in his thinking? Hardly! You might be confusing Jesus with Paul. This one yes, he tried to turn Judaism upside down. He failed, though, but in order not to waste his time, he decided to create a religion apart from Judaism, and Christianity was born.

(quote] He did come to bring salvation, but not everyone, especially the traditional priests, were very receptive to him He came to abolish the old hypocritical laws and displays. He challenged their authority. Naturally, they did not want to hear what he said. They were deaf and blind to his words, as Isaiah said. He did fulfill a lot of what the prophets told people. I won’t go into all of them. Just because Jesus was amazing and strange, doesn’t mean he wasn’t true!

What you say about the Pharisees is absolutely innaccurate. Jesus was of the same line of thought. The Apostles even had Pharisees in the Nazarene Committee. The Sect of the Nazarenes was the Jewish sect originated with Jesus. And they would make converts even from among the Pharisees. (Acts 15:5)
All the problems against the Pharisees was built as a result of a tremendous grudge Paul had against them for having never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil.

Ben: 🤷
 
Ben,

Thanks for taking my suggestion. May you and the members of the Association of Hebrew Catholics keep a good dialogue going and a civil understanding of each others views.
 
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