Son & family now attend Presby of America church

[Shasta-Rose]

I can guarantee you this, none of our four grown children would have ever considered saying something like that to any adult, a parent or grandparent. They would think that if they said that, their life would be forfeit.

I’m with you, Thomas. We of the old school were required to show respect. Those were the days! My husband said to the neighbor kid, about 7 years old, Please don’t ride your bike right there, as I’m trying to grow grass there. The kid says, Well, grow it somewhere else, a**hole.

I am simply floored.

 

[Cruciferi]

But as another said in this thread, it’s pretty normal to ask what was given up for Lent.

Yeah, I’ve never seen this as abnormal or intrusive. A coworker of mine is giving up beer and another isn’t drinking pop.

Maybe it’s a cultural thing? Nobody I know is really uptight about the subject :man_shrugging:t2:

 

[Thomas54]

Yep, it’s a sticky wicket for sure. I’ve never spanked our grandkids even though all of their parents have told us to give them a whack if they need it. I don’t think that they would want to return to our home very often if we did. But then, you can’t let a mouthy child treat a grandparent like the kids did in the movie “Taladega Nights.”
YouTube Taladega Nights Grandpa Scene. It’s disgusting that they put utter disrespect for a grandparent in a movie.

 

[Thomas54]

Well, I just had a very nice conversation with our Catholic deacon. As I expected, this was not even close to the first time that he has seen this scenario play out. Even his family is replete with the same storyline. This begs the question as to what can we do as a Church & what can families do to retain and grow our membership.

His advice was to give it some time and and let our son make the first effort towards starting a conversation and to take the grandkids to church every chance we get. Also, to pray a lot. ray:t2:ray:t2:ray:t2:

As a cradle Catholic, I can’t even imagine how a convert sees our Church’s revelations over the last few years. This has certainly not helped us hold members or increase our membership or for that fact, help inter-faith marriages.

From the Pew Research Center:

“The study begins by informing the reader that the United States is home to 51 million adults who identify themselves as Catholics. The content then states that the American Catholic population has decreased during the last 10 years. The numbers say it clearly: in 2007, Catholics made up 24 percent of the U.S. population. In 2014, it went down to 21 percent. Will the Catholic population decline even more in the wake of reports of sexual abuse?”

Anyway, his advice was appreciated and pretty much what I expected, especially the praying part. Still, it was nice to hear it from someone who works in the trenches.

 

[Thomas54]

Quite frankly, I think you need to stay out of your son’s marriage. This isn’t a matter of salvation. The Presbyterian Church is Christian, your grandkids will receive a Trinitarian baptism (if they haven’t been baptized already), and will be instructed in Christian doctrine. It is not your place to come between your son and his wife.

Interesting advice. So is Catholic doctrine and “Christian” doctrine the same? How about predestination?

 

[Hodos]

Interesting advice. So is Catholic doctrine and “Christian” doctrine the same? How about predestination?

Predestination is a Christian and a Catholic doctrine. They may teach double pre-destination, which is heterodox, not heretical. So if you want to continue to try to interject yourself between your son and his wife, feel free to do so, but I am telling you it won’t end well for you. All you will do is lose influence with your son and your grandchildren. Your son rightly left your home to cleave to his wife. It would be a mistake for your to interfere with that. Let him fight that battle, if he thinks it is necessary.

Quite frankly, your deacon just gave you the same advice I did. He was just less up front about it.

 

[JMMJ]

Your granddaughter is correct. From the mouths of babes. It isn’t your business, and you certainly shouldn’t have asked her about it knowing what the status of their family’s religious life and choices are right now. She is a child, and you put her in the middle of something. Stirring the pot. You may not realize that is what you were doing, but it is.

Be happy they are still going to church at all. This isn’t your problem to solve. Don’t bring religion up at all, with any of them, unless they initiate the conversation. People don’t like to feel like they are being pushed, especially with such personal issues. You don’t want to be allienated from your grandchildren, and that is what could happen if you upset the parents enough over this issue.

Religious choice is one of the most personal things we do as adults. Respect your son and his wife’s choice, and treat them with respect accordingly. That includes respecting their privacy around this issue.

 

[jasonthechief]

I’ve been on the other end of this scenario, and it is not pleasant. I was raised Mormon, but left the church and married a Catholic, and converted myself. The interference from my family was toxic, but fortunately they accepted it after some time, and we have a good relationship now. I understand their concern, because I believe they were truly convinced I would lose my salvation, but obviously I disagreed. If they had persisted in interfering with my family and our faith choices it would have killed our relationship. Ultimately you need to accept their choice as hard as that may seem.

 

[Thomas54]

Wow Gorgias, I could not disagree more with you on predestination and what it meant to Calvin and how it differs from our Catholic faith. But, I like discussing hot topics face to face with someone and not via an internet forum.

Also, I’m not between my son and his wife because I remind him that he and his children and wife are Roman Catholic. He and I have always had a great relationship and if I didn’t say anything to him about him leaving our church, he would be very surprised and wonder if I’m ill.

 

[Fraevo63]

Am I the only who thought the “solution” would have been to move to another Catholic parish with American born priests and an established ministry for the children? How long has it been since they left their parish for a denominational church?

 

[Thomas54]

Hmm… so, Catholic kids choose non-Catholic spouses… and it’s the Reformation’s fault?

Well, if there had been no Protestant Reformation, we may all be Catholic Christians. Of course, I’m pretty certain that science would have been set back by 100 years or more and neither one of us would be here discussing anything on this thing called the internet. We would certainly be living in an alternate history.

 

[Thomas54]

Am I the only who thought the “solution” would have been to move to another Catholic parish with American born priests and an established ministry for the children? How long has it been since they left their parish for a denominational church?

Great observation!!! They tried attending another parish with an American priest that gave wonderful sermons but it is an older dying parish with even less for young ones.

To me, it is apparent that they want their children to be somewhat enthusiastic about attending church. IMO, their current church is more like a Vacation Bible School.

One thing I need to mention, my wife and I are in our 60s and are blessed with lots of grandkids. I’m very thankful for each and everyone of them and I’ve come to realize that no matter how anyone raises their kids, my wife and I would do things differently because we face different challenges than our children face.

It’s probably normal to sit back and say “boy, I’m sure glad that I’m not raising kids in this day and age.” It is way too easy for them to be subjected to evil influences these days with the growth of technology.

 

[Gorgias]

Wow Gorgias, I could not disagree more with you on predestination and what it meant to Calvin and how it differs from our Catholic faith.

Predestination? Calvin? When did I raise those topics in this thread??? I thought I was talking about M&M’s and Catholic kids with Protestant spouses…!

Well, if there had been no Protestant Reformation, we may all be Catholic Christians.

Perhaps. (I’m more inclined to think that the socio-political forces were tilting in that direction, and if not Luther, then it would have been somebody else, sometime else, maybe somewhere else in Europe.)

In any case, the fact that there was a Reformation has nothing to do with the fact that some Catholic kids decide to take the difficult route of marrying someone outside of their religious tradition and upbringing. Luther’s not to blame for their decision or the difficulties it can cause…

I’m pretty certain that science would have been set back by 100 years or more and neither one of us would be here discussing anything on this thing called the internet.

Huh? Catholic scientists pre-existed Luther, and continued to exist (and to do science) long after he was gone. What do you think the Reformation did for the cause of science, anyway?

 

[Gorgias]

Great observation!!! They tried attending another parish with an American priest that gave wonderful sermons but it is an older dying parish with even less for young ones.

To me, it is apparent that they want their children to be somewhat enthusiastic about attending church. IMO, their current church is more like a Vacation Bible School.

Right. Catholics (in general, but not everywhere) tend to structure the “look and feel” of their worship in a much different way than many evangelical / non-denominational Christians do. In the end, it comes down to a choice: are you looking for religious-themed entertainment, or are you looking for the Body and Blood of Christ? For many, the former is the draw, and the latter unimportant.

 

[Elf01]

In the end, it comes down to a choice: are you looking for religious-themed entertainment, or are you looking for the Body and Blood of Christ?

I don’t see any reason why we can’t get both.

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t see any reason why we can’t get both.

Good point… maybe.

If you’re saying “why can’t we have a Mass that gives us the Body and Blood of Christ, and other gatherings that are fun and provide entertainment?”, then I’m all with you! Mass is Mass, and a rock band and an uplifting lecture on Scripture are forms of entertainment and learning. Go to each of them, at their own time, in their own context. Make Mass your Sunday morning activity, and a prayer service / concert your Sunday afternoon activity, and let Bible study be your Tuesday evening activity.

If, on the other hand, you’re saying, “why can’t Mass be fun?”, then I’d say I disagree (in principle). Mass isn’t entertainment, in which we’re meant to be spectators. It’s meant to be the worship of God, in which we – as priests in the Kingdom of Heaven – re-present the sacrifice of Christ to the Father. It’s not a spectator sport – it’s supposed to be a “full, active participation” in the representation of the sacrifice!

Should Mass have hymns that are played well and sung beautifully? Absolutely! (Are we donating enough to not only keep the lights on, but also to pay for skilled singers and musicians and their instruments?)

Should Mass have homilies that are uplifting? Definitely! (But, priests aren’t “hired” or fired based on how well they deliver a public speech. Instead, we believe they’re chosen for a life-long vocation. And, as St Paul reminds us, not all have the same gifts. So, some priests will be great at the pulpit, and others will be great at counseling, administration, teaching, etc, etc.) So, it’s difficult to expect that a priest be required to have the skill set of someone who is hired primarily and specifically for their ability to deliver a message in a public forum.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I mentioned “Formed.org” above. They have just released a new series called “Why Believe”. It was developed for High School students, however, I think that it would be great for family viewing, and it does not “talk down” to people, so, it is a great starter for adults.

 

[TheLittleLady]

. Of course, I’m pretty certain that science would have been set back by 100 years or more and neither one of us would be here discussing anything on this thing called the internet. We would certainly be living in an alternate history.

This is a confusing statement.

Could you explain?

 

[TC3033]

religious-themed entertainment

IMHO, That’s a pretty uncharitable thing to say about other Christians. Just because they don’t worship like you, for some reason that makes their style of worship “entertainment”? I guess that opinion is “interesting”…

 

[TheLittleLady]

Agree.

In fact, I would encourage those who hold such an idea to read “Forming Intentional Disciples” by Sherry Weddell.

What Catholics are Reading: Forming Intentional Disciples by Sherry Weddell - FOCUS Equip

This book review continues our series on “What Catholics are Reading.” For more Catholic book reviews, check out this one on Matthew Kelly’s The Four Signs of a Dynamic Catholic. Book Introduction Forming Intentional Disciples has been a blockbuster bestseller. Over a year after its release, it...

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