Son is confused

[rr1213]

Catechism:
we’re forbidden to participate in such services under pain of mortal sin.

I don’t think that is what the CCC says. You’re applying your own gloss here.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

lukewarm may have a chip, but to be honest he also has a wounded heart.

I didnt grow up in any particular church because of that particular wound. Mom said let me decide, there was too much conflict. So I eventually found my way, Gods good.

Which is why someone like myself and probably the son of the op will likely reject all churches if not handled correctly.

The day I discovered there actually was a God who really did care for me, under the piles of church confusion, was the best in my life.

So while there is this protestant/catholic thing just to remind you all there is also a church goer/never really been thing too.

All I can say is
“Home, its hard to know what it is when youve never had one”.

lukewarm, I understand your points, actually from the “outside” I see both sides. But Im just wondering if you have any thoughts on what Ive said.

 

[latinmasslover]

But does a 12 year olds opinion matter anymore than a 17 year old? Or a 40 year old? I don’t think so…

Your 12 year old son falls out of a tree and breaks his leg but doesn’t want medical attention, you approve yes? Your seventeen year old daughter gets pregnant and wants an abortion, you support her? Your 40 year old brother wants to kill himself, you loan him your gun? I didn’t think so. A soul is more valuable than the body as the Holy Scriptures say. If a Catholic does not raise his or her child in the Faith, but lets him go his own way, that parent is guilty of sin, and the poor choices of the child that are made.

 

[latinmasslover]

So, you would insist that the 17 year old stay home and miss Mass rather than attend a Methodist Church?

Would I have my child stay home and ponder his/her decision, and continue to study doctrine rather than attend a Methodist service (or any nonCatholic service for that matter)? Absolutely.

 

[rr1213]

Would I have my child stay home and ponder his/her decision, and continue to study doctrine rather than attend a Methodist service (or any nonCatholic service for that matter)? Absolutely.

What if he won’t study Catholic doctrine, but he will attend a Methodist service? You’d rather he sit at home than have the chance of growing in piety and a saving relationship with Christ? Amazing, just amazing. Would you prefer that he be an atheist rather than a Methodist?

 

[latinmasslover]

I don’t think that is what the CCC says. You’re applying your own gloss here.

Actually, I’m not; it’s just not *emphasized *in the new Catechism. I cited the Baltimore Catechism, which is doctrinally sound, very clear, *approved *by the Church, and even in the aftermath of V-II, has not been condemned by the Church. Church teaching never changes, sin is always sin (unless you’re Mormon). The Church is infallible in Faith and Morals simply because Faith and Morals can never change. This matter regards both and the Church has already spoken on the issue.

 

[rr1213]

Actually, I’m not; it’s just not *emphasized *in the new Catechism. I cited the Baltimore Catechism, which is doctrinally sound, very clear, *approved *by the Church, and even in the aftermath of V-II, has not been condemned by the Church. Church teaching never changes, sin is always sin (unless you’re Mormon). The Church is infallible in Faith and Morals simply because Faith and Morals can never change. This matter regards both and the Church has already spoken on the issue.

Show me from the CCC.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Catechism:

817: In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Aostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared…”

Popes have always condemned it, and as Catholics (see the Baltimore Catechism…approved by the Church!) we’re forbidden to participate in such services under pain of mortal sin.

I guess there is a part about brothers and still recognized but not condemened. its been quoted before.

As for the other half of it, its hard to know that my acceptance of Christ through a loosely based protestant view is no good, and full of sin should a catholic go near it. so I guess I really dont know Him and its been a lie. Thats pretty much what Im getting here.

I KNOW better, but thats how its coming across, just to let ya all know. But its all convincing me I dont wanna attend any church, I will take my chance on forsaking the assemblying with the Almighty when I get there.

 

[latinmasslover]

What if he won’t study Catholic doctrine, but he will attend a Methodist service? You’d rather he sit at home than have the chance of growing in piety and a saving relationship with Christ? Amazing, just amazing. Would you prefer that he be an atheist rather than a Methodist?

If my child wants to be a Protestant and can’t keep a relationship with Jesus at home with his Bible than he won’t make a good Protestant. Staying home he *will *study the Faith, and the differences between what he was born and what he wants to be, there will be no compromise on that. There’s this thing parents used to do which I plan on doing when the Lord chooses to bless me with children, called discipline. They may not like the rules of the home but they will respect them, and any parent that doesn’t instill that into their children really should read their Bibles a little more carefully. God loves all His children, but the Holy Scriptures show that He chastises, with love, the disobedient children. Those that aren’t chastised are not His children, as He has said.

 

[rr1213]

There’s this thing parents used to do which I plan on doing when the Lord chooses to bless me with children, called discipline. They may not like the rules of the home but they will respect them, and any parent that doesn’t instill that into their children really should read their Bibles a little more carefully.

Ahh, you don’t have children yet. Now it makes sense.

 

[lukewarm]

If my child told me he was going to a Methodist service or Church and won’t be attending Mass I would smack him upside (I* wouldn’t literally hit him, this would be a verbal thumping*) the head and tell him to get ready for Mass, he has no business telling me what he is or isn’t going to be doing come Sunday morning. If my wife persisted on this destructive divisive route I would consider divorce and seek if I had any grounds for an annulment.

I certainly wouldn’t stand by while my wifes actions tear my family apart, and rip apart my childs entire faith and identity.

 

[rr1213]

If my child told me he was going to a Methodist service or Church and won’t be attending Mass I would smack him upside (I* wouldn’t literally hit him, this would be a verbal thumping*) the head and tell him to get ready for Mass, he has no business telling me what he is or isn’t going to be doing come Sunday morning. If my wife persisted on this destructive divisive route I would consider divorce and seek if I had any grounds for an annulment.

I certainly wouldn’t stand by while my wifes actions tear my family apart, and rip apart my childs entire faith and identity.

Amazing stuff.

 

[latinmasslover]

I guess there is a part about brothers and still recognized but not condemened. its been quoted before.

As for the other half of it, its hard to know that my acceptance of Christ through a loosely based protestant view is no good, and full of sin should a catholic go near it. so I guess I really dont know Him and its been a lie. Thats pretty much what Im getting here.

I KNOW better, but thats how its coming across, just to let ya all know. But its all convincing me I dont wanna attend any church, I will take my chance on forsaking the assemblying with the Almighty when I get there.

What many people miss is this point which I’m about to make. Is a Hindu sinning by praying to Shiva? No. It’s wrong, but he’s not sinning. Would I be sinning if I prayed to Shiva? Yes. If a Protestant uses the pill is she sinning mortally? No. It’s still a serious sin, but she’s unaware. Would I be sinning mortally? Yes. Is an atheist in a state of mortal sin for not keeping Sunday holy by attending Mass on Sunday? No, but it’s still wrong not to keep Sunday holy. Would I be? Yes.

It’s the same thing as what I said that you quoted, or at least what I was trying to say. The CCC doesn’t damn Protestants that don’t know any better, or nonChristians for that matter. For a Catholic to join that Church however, would be apostasy, and that Catholic would be damned unless he repented.

 

[scottm]

If Wesley’s soteriology is the same as Catholic soteriology what exactly did he add that the I couldn’t garner from the Catholic Church?

“He comes at it from a different perspective, and a different perspective can be a very good thing to read. Etc for other giants in history.”

Wesley started a church organization on the idea that people should show love for other people in their actions. At a time when nobody else, including Catholics, cared to do anything about child labor, sweat shops, slavery, drunken homes, and other bad things, Wesley’s followers stepped up and did something.

You can say 1,000 bad things about his theology, and you might even be correct on 900 of them, but you’ll never erase the historical fact that Catholics were being jerks to other people when Methodists were being loving. That is something worth learning.

latinmasslover:

If a Catholic does not raise his or her child in the Faith, but lets him go his own way, that parent is guilty of sin, and the poor choices of the child that are made.

Here’s another spin:
Sometimes children go “their own way” because the adults at church are jerks. I have a dear personal friend in his 50s who fled God and remains in hiding BECAUSE THE CHURCH PEOPLE HE GREW UP WITH WERE EVIL JERKS. Here’s an example direct from him: “We can’t associate with so-and-so because they attend a different church.”

Straight from my friend’s mouth. That’s the environment that made him hate God. There was plenty more that he’s told me, but that one statement there struck a nerve. Nothing that I’ve said or done yet has convinced him that there is another side to God.

Well excuse me for being a “sinner,” but I will not be a part of such an environment as that, ever.

 

[latinmasslover]

Ahh, you don’t have children yet. Now it makes sense.

Nevertheless, I know what I’m talking about; my family is full of heretics. My siblings and I were all raised differently, and the differences are obvious. It doesn’t take experience to be able to observe. Jesus wasn’t married and didn’t have sex? Gee, that must explains why He didn’t support fornication, adultery, or divorce, right?

 

[rr1213]

I honestly believe that many of the Catholics posting in this thread would literally give their children over to atheism if the alternative was for the child to attend a Protestant Church. This, notwithstanding that despite signficiant differences, Catholics and Protestants have more in common than what they hold separate.

Your Church holds that…"these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.”

God has used, and continues to use, the Protestant bodies as a means of salvation. You’d rather have the kid be denied those means of salvation altogether if the alternative is that he is willing only to receive those means in a Protestant Church. Amazing. Pray to God that you are not actually faced with this sort of choice because it happens, this is not just theoretical.

 

[rr1213]

Nevertheless, I know what I’m talking about; my family is full of heretics. My siblings and I were all raised differently, and the differences are obvious. It doesn’t take experience to be able to observe. Jesus wasn’t married and didn’t have sex? Gee, that must explains why He didn’t support fornication, adultery, or divorce, right?

Jesus is God. The comparison doesn’t hold water.

 

[latinmasslover]

Show me from the CCC.

Vatican II did not define any dogma, as the post V-II popes have said. Therefore you look to previous Councils to discover the teachings. The same for the Catechism. You show me in the Catechism where it says it is okay to participate in Protestant worship services.

 

[lukewarm]

I honestly believe that many of the Catholics posting in this thread would literally give their children over to atheism if the alternative was for the child to attend a Protestant Church. This, notwithstanding that despite signficiant differences, Catholics and Protestants have more in common than what they hold separate.

Your Church holds that…"these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.”

God has used, and continues to use, the Protestant bodies as a means of salvation. You’d rather have the kid be denied those means of salvation altogether if the alternative is that he is willing only to receive those means in a Protestant Church. Amazing. Pray to God that you are not actually faced with this sort of choice because it happens, this is not just theoretical.

I would be gravely dissapointed if my son became an atheist, I would disown him if he became a protestant.

 

[latinmasslover]

I honestly believe that many of the Catholics posting in this thread would literally give their children over to atheism if the alternative was for the child to attend a Protestant Church. This, notwithstanding that despite signficiant differences, Catholics and Protestants have more in common than what they hold separate.

Your Church holds that…"these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.”

God has used, and continues to use, the Protestant bodies as a means of salvation. You’d rather have the kid be denied those means of salvation altogether if the alternative is that he is willing only to receive those means in a Protestant Church. Amazing. Pray to God that you are not actually faced with this sort of choice because it happens, this is not just theoretical.

More similarities than differences? Such as?
Now let’s not take the Catechism out context…it’s not the Bible, you know. What you quoted is regarding those who are, through no fault of their own (as in born into it) Protestant, not those who apostasize from the Church.