Sondland changes everything

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JonNC said:
Where do you get the idea that no proof is necessary?
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I harbor no such idea. I have already talked of the evidence that exists.
The idea that there had to be some specific formula of words to make the case for the crime is a pathetic defense of Trump’s abuse of power.
 
Maximus1 said:
Protecting our money"
How did he do that?
First, he signed legislation authorizing the expenditure. When he did that, he signed into law that the money would not be sent until a review by the DOD. WE HEARD TESTIMONY about what was done to see that Curruption was being eliminated. We learned that it was complete in May.
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It isn’t complete until the President says its complete. Apparently it wasn’t complete. The president gets to decide, not the bureaucrats. Even when the bureaucrats throw a tantrum about policy, they still don’t have the final word.

In your entire diatribe, you have not one speck of evidence that Trump improperly tied release of the funds to a demand to dig up dirt on Biden. That’s the only thing that would be improper. Looking into corruption during the 2016 election is perfectly proper. The Democrats may not want to know about it, but it is proper.
 
dvdjs said:
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Jeanne_S:
Apparently one doesn’t even have to actually say what our president has been accused of
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It is standard practice that investigations preceed formal charges
Jeanne_S said:
now it’s bribery ,no now it’s extortion
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If articles of impeachment are presented, we will see. Until then, this article may help you understand the nuances of bribery and extortion.
https://criminal.laws.com/bribery/bribery-versus-extortion
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Here’s the reason for the use of the term bribery.


More evidence that this entire scam is motivated by a desire to overturn 2016
 
drcube said:
Which keeps me wondering about the Tooth Fairy. I know people tell me it has been debunked, but has anyone really investigated it yet?
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I am not sure about the tooth fairy, but the Ukraine meddling story has been investigated, and Congress has been breifed on it. Nonetheless, the Russian disinformation campaign finds willing allies.

Republicans have sought for weeks amid the impeachment inquiry to shift attention to President Trump’s demands that Ukraine investigate any 2016 election meddling, defending it as a legitimate concern while Democrats accuse Mr. Trump of pursuing fringe theories for his benefit.

The Republican defense of Mr. Trump became central to the impeachment proceedings when Fiona Hill, a respected Russia scholar and former senior White House official, added a harsh critique during testimony on Thursday. She told some of Mr. Trump’s fiercest defenders in Congress that they were repeating “a fictional narrative.” She said that it likely came from a disinformation campaign by Russian security services, which also propagated it.

In a briefing that closely aligned with Dr. Hill’s testimony, American intelligence officials informed senators and their aides in recent weeks that Russia had engaged in a yearslong campaign to essentially frame Ukraine as responsible for Moscow’s own hacking of the 2016 election, according to three American officials. The briefing came as Republicans stepped up their defenses of Mr. Trump in the Ukraine affair.

The revelations demonstrate Russia’s persistence in trying to sow discord among its adversaries — and show that the Kremlin apparently succeeded, as unfounded claims about Ukrainian interference seeped into Republican talking points. American intelligence agencies believe Moscow is likely to redouble its efforts as the 2020 presidential campaign intensifies. The classified briefing for senators also focused on Russia’s evolving influence tactics, including its growing ability to better disguise operations.
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It isn’t complete until Trump says it is, has nothing to do with my point. The DOD work was complete in May. If Trump does nothing but withhold payment, the work on Curruption still ended in May. What objectively did he do to investigate and evaluate Curruption after May.
Let him identify the event, or series of events that caused him from putting a hold , to sending the funds.
If there is NOTHING actually done objectively to evaluate Curruption in the Ukraine, after May, then “this Trump protecting our money” is nonsense. Lie number 13,001.
 
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Of course and extortion is even more damning . They just keep digging themselves into a deeper hole. The arrogance of the Dems to assume they can manipulate opinion n by ramping up the verbiage to fit their agenda. It really is pathetic and a desperate act on their part.
 
Maximus1 said:
It isn’t complete until Trump says it is, has nothing to do with my point. The DOD work was complete in May.
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Not if Trump didn’t say it was. Trump is the commander in chief. He decides when it’s done.
Maximus1 said:
If Trump does nothing but withhold payment, the work on Curruption still ended in May. What objectively did he do to investigate and evaluate Curruption after May.
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He was evaluating the worthiness of a historically corrupt country. That’s his job.
Maximus1 said:
caused him from putting a hold , to sending the funds.
If
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Maximus1 said:
If there is NOTHING actually done objectively to evaluate Curruption in the Ukraine, after May, then “this Trump protecting our money” is nonsense
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Again, the false and unconstitutional theory that bureaucrats determine when an investigation is done. The President decides that. If Trump did not agree it was done in May, then it wasn’t.
 
Trump continues to, and will continue to lead his minions and fans to publish this Russian propaganda. It is the impeachment defense. I expect it to become more prominent. Trump’s wants all his people spreading it. After all, everyone expects that he will continue his single minded focus on coincidental Putin collaboration.
 
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Well Trump is helping. He did a great job making their case on Fox and Friends.
 
Maximus1 said:
I see. That’s great. A president can create 100 crazy conspiracy theories, then set the FBI off investigating them against their political opponent.
The rationale is, we don’t know till we investigate do we?
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If only there were methods to determine whether or not a claim is worth investigating. Like having intelligence agencies that can tell us if there is anything to the claim before a full investigation is opened. That would be a great idea.
 
That unfortunately is not cute enough to work.
See we also want to know the objective facts pertaining to what took place that caused the hold turn to no hold. Then we will know done was in May, and Trump has no articulable reason why he delayed .
You say he was evaluating worthiness. This is his job.
What did he do to evaluate? Toiled internally in his omnipresent brain?
If the investigation was conducted and completed in compliance with the law, then this is fulfilment of the function of Congress who decides conditions on appropriations. In this case, bi partisan, signed by Trump.
It contains 100% of the conditions. Trump may not add conditions. It I unconstitutional. This happened in May
Trump can put a hold. The question is what for. He cannot add conditions. He tried to do this with block grants and sanctuary cities.
If he did nothing, and then gave the green light 59 days later, this is all a hoax. He held the money, but not to investigate Curruption.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Of course and extortion is even more damning . They just keep digging themselves into a deeper hole. The arrogance of the Dems to assume they can manipulate opinion n by ramping up the verbiage to fit their agenda. It really is pathetic and a desperate act on their part.
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I think extortion is more accurate than bribery, but both fit the crime.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Of course and extortion is even more damning . They just keep digging themselves into a deeper hole. The arrogance of the Dems to assume they can manipulate opinion n by ramping up the verbiage to fit their agenda. It really is pathetic and a desperate act on their part.
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Two important quotes as to the motive of the Democrats:
Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.” - Schumer’s call to action.
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[The] coup has started.” Zaid’s announcement, fulfilled in his client’s efforts in conjunction with Schiff.
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And there is. Because there must be. And it must objectively meet a threshold.
And law enforcement does it.
And when a president does it involving personal interest that makes it more suspect.
 
Who titled it," Schumer’s call to action?" A wonderful example of how one need only supply a little infusion of imagination to support a full born conspiracy theory.
 
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