Now that information has been made available. Jim Jordan spoke to that fact. I’ve posted it here before. It is also true that not all of it was withheld. It is also true that Ukraine is far better off today between of Trump. And the cloud of suspicion continues to hang over Biden because of the attempts by Democrats to Squash an investigation that could easily clear him. But if it does implicate him, the people have a right to know it.
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And there is zero evidence of personal interest.And there is. Because there must be. And it must objectively meet a threshold.
And law enforcement does it.
And when a president does it involving personal interest that makes it more suspect.
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drcube
Guest
Seriously? You’re making that argument. Ok, then.And there is zero evidence of personal interest.
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F_Marturana
Guest
Yes.
Ukraine’s visits to White House, attendance to inauguration and military aid. (Let’s call that part “quid”) was contingent on investigations ( that part we can call “quo”)
What’s bribery? I pay you for a favor.
What’s extortion? I threaten you for a favor.
“Do me a favor”.
Ukraine’s visits to White House, attendance to inauguration and military aid. (Let’s call that part “quid”) was contingent on investigations ( that part we can call “quo”)
What’s bribery? I pay you for a favor.
What’s extortion? I threaten you for a favor.
“Do me a favor”.
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Maximus1
Guest
The political hit job is to announce an investigation. Not to do it. Same hit job Coney’s announcement of reopening the Hillary investigation 11 days before the election had.
" Oh, it was nothing." But the election is over now.
There has been nothing done by Trump announced in the news before he released the money. Jordans auctioneer diatribe did not offer Trump actually doing anything to determine Ukraine was improving with Curruption.
Platitudes about how important it is to Trump are platitudes
" Oh, it was nothing." But the election is over now.
There has been nothing done by Trump announced in the news before he released the money. Jordans auctioneer diatribe did not offer Trump actually doing anything to determine Ukraine was improving with Curruption.
Platitudes about how important it is to Trump are platitudes
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Maximus1
Guest
Speak for yourself.
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dvdjs
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Yes, the juxtaposition of the invented scrupulosity for selected witnesses in the Impeachment hearings versus you wild laxity here is breathtaking.No, I’m very clear of the concept.
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dvdjs
Guest
Why do you say that? In criminal cases the sentence maxima are the same.Of course and extortion is even more damning
The facts that they testified to are evidence.Just like they had no evidence.
You lack pertinent facts; your opinions are not evidence.
I am honestly interested in what in the world you mean by “evidence” that accommodates all of the usages of you have been giving of late on the forum.And there is zero evidence of personal interest.
What “evidence” do you imagine is required to show what you term Personal interest", or in the law personal benefit, advantage, or anything of value?
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Jeanne_S
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Show me the man I’ll find the crime,now evolved into an impeachment in search of the “ crime”
It’s over…
It’s over…
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dvdjs
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Again, we are not yet involved in a vote on impeachment. We are involved in an investigation. That investigation may lead to articles of impeachment in which high crimes and misdemeanors will be specified. The fact that the articles have not preceded the investigation is a normal part of due process and the very opposite of what you are suggesting. The very opposite.Show me the man I’ll find the crime,now evolved into an impeachment in search of the “ crime”
It’s over…
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Maximus1
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The Sec of State. The NSA, Mulvany. Didn’t testify because Trump stopped them. Sondberg said they were involved.
The rest of the witnesses are part of Trump’s administration.
Pretty fair
The rest of the witnesses are part of Trump’s administration.
Pretty fair
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Maximus1
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That’s basic
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Maximus1
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The horn was loud. The car went fast. Opinions
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And neither were the opinions of Kent, Bishop and Yovanovitch.The facts that they testified to are evidence.
You lack pertinent facts; your opinions are not evidence.
That’s funny. I’ve been puzzled by the expansive view of evidence that includes the mere speculation of bureaucrats who lack any real knowledge.I am honestly interested in what in the world you mean by “evidence” that accommodates all of the usages of you have been giving of late on the forum.
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dvdjs
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Their facts are evidence.And neither were the opinions of Lent, Bishop and Yovanovitch.
Nope. What is persuasive is the facts that, and others, they presented.mere speculation
Okay. I had the exact same amount of personal interest as Trump.Speak for yourself.
They had none.Their facts are evidence.
They presented none.Nope. What is persuasive is the facts that, and others, they presented.
Rep. Stewart:”Do you have any information regarding the President of the United States accepting any bribes?”
Yovanovitch, “No.”
Rep. Stewart, “Do you have any information regarding any criminal activity that the president of the United States has been involved with at all?”
Yovanovitch, “No.”
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dvdjs
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We have been through this before. They testified about the facts that they kne and did not opine speculate about the facts that they did not know, notwithstanding your suggestion to the contrary. That is what witnesses do. The implicit idea here, that every witness called must have full knowledge of and be able to testify to every fact pertinent is a very strange one - and betrays the weakness of Trump’s defense. It does not change in the least the impact of Sondland’s testimony, which was provided the essential facts of the crime.They presented none.
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Shakuhachi
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He was going to “drain the swamp”. It gets deeper and darker by the day. Not that the Dems are much better. I cannot help but be pessimistic about the USA. At one time we at least had a pretense of nobility, a facade of justice and honor. Now it can only be detected in very few individuals who are willing take risks.
I cannot wrap my mind around those who still defend this president and his personal attorney. We have lost all credibility. The House of Lies is crumbling.
I cannot wrap my mind around those who still defend this president and his personal attorney. We have lost all credibility. The House of Lies is crumbling.
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Maximus1
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You won’t see witnesses much better than they were. This generalized discussion of evidence is great political scoff, but pretty meaningless.
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