Sondland changes everything

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Ridgerunner said:
The Obama administration knew Burisma was corrupt,
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What were the charges against Burisma?

[The current Ukrainian prosecutor] Ryaboshapka predecessors oversaw a series of investigations into Zlochevsky, a multimillionaire former minister of ecology and natural resources. The allegations concern tax violations, money-laundering and licences given to Burisma during the period where Zlochevsky was a minister.

Ryaboshapka said Zlochevsky was now suspected of the “theft of government funds on an especially large scale,” … including using his official position to embezzle 800 million hryvnias ($33 million) of money belonging to the central bank.
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The reports that I have read discussed the corruption by Zlochevsky while he was in the government.
 
I didn’t say Trump is a dictator. I don’t think anyone credible says that. He is a president!
The claim involves his actions as president. Attacking media as enemy of the people and the judiciary are red flags. AUTHORITARIANISM IS A REAL POTENTIAL not fiction. Using his power to declare an emergency to usurp the power of Congress is an act to avoid the power of one branch of government. The border is not a hurricane or earthquake.
Your example of bureaucracy in authoritarian states is distinguishable. It is the authoritarian state and lack of independence via rule of law that is precisely the difference.
I predict the IG and Durham will find imperfections. They might find overzealous prosecution. These types of problems are endemic of prosecutorial bodies IN GENERAL. The legal reporters are filled with thousands( not hundreds but thousands and thousands) of prosecutorial misconduct cases where evidence is excluded. There is nothing that will be different here. I welcome the investigation because I feel it it a healthy thing for our nation that Trump, or any president, is stifled asserting some internal conspiracy to victimize just him. It undermines the rule of law in it’s self serving purpose and creates allegiance to a man rather than an office. It I insideous IF NOT TRUE. And proof it is not true will be necessary to maintain Trump as a public servant governed by law.
 
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I have to laugh. Does Trump Eve know who these people are?
Why not listed to Rudy and Trump. They say JOE AND HUNTER BIDEN.
TRUMPS self interest.
Trump sent money to the Ukraine two DIFFERENT TIMES before 2019.
Trump didn’t voice a PEEP about Curruption. Certainly not Burisma.
So what happened in 2019? JOE BECAME HIS OPPONENT
 
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Oh that we had a man with integrity like Reagan again. ( You won’t countv13k lies with Reagan.)
I don’t know what your thought was with Wilson or the Roosevelts. What I do know is they can easily be defended saving capitalism.
 
Maximus1 said:
It is the authoritarian state and lack of independence via rule of law that is precisely the difference.
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The Soviet Union was widely regarded as having the most enlightened constitution and laws of any nation. It was a bureaucratic state that served its own interests and didn’t honor any laws.
Bureaucracy and authoritarianism are brother and sister, not polar opposites.
Maximus1 said:
asserting some internal conspiracy to victimize just him
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I don’t think the left understands Trump’s support, and this, I feel, is an example of it. Trump voters at least intended to lessen the stifling yoke of a bureaucracy that had adopted philosophies that were alien to them; abortion, homosexual imitation of marriage, “replacing” them with a new population thought more likely to support the others politically and willing to work for less, “globalized” manufacturing and trade. The left let the cat out of the bag with “deplorables”, “irredeemables”, “bitter clingers” and “Walmart shoppers”, yet somehow expects those very people to reject the one man who rejects those views of them.

It’s not really about Trump himself. And paradoxically, Trump understands that it isn’t about him, though he is the symbol and representative of those who voted for him and will again.

You think it’s terrible that Trump disdains the media? Multiply that by at least five and you know what his voters think of the mainstream media. Trump is not about Trump. Those who support him know that. Those who dislike him do not seem to.
 
What constitutes “ lies” per this article by and large is merely sementics.But hey whatever fits the lefts narritive
 
Jeanne_S said:
What constitutes “ lies” per this article by and large is merely sementics.But hey whatever fits the lefts narritive
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Maybe you should review the 13000 cases in the article I posted and let us know if they are lies or not.
 
Maximus1 said:
The free speech right is not the same as you and me. A president indulging his right has national consequences.
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There have been zero consequences because of Trump’s criticism of the leftist media.
Maximus1 said:
And I don’t care that people are OK with America’s demise.
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Me neither. That’s why I won’t vote Democrat.
Maximus1 said:
Trump reminds us a great deal of America is ok with Authoritarianism.
Get things done.
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Except that Trump is not authoritarian. The authoritarian politicians are the ones who want to increase government power and reduce individual rights, that is, progressives.
 
Trump is about Trump. The closest description ever was the King and Duke from Tom Sawyer.
As the King and Duke you are the mark.
You take all of the things you mentioned that you hate. You add a few more less flattering but true.
Globalism and mommy they called us Wallmart shoppers.
The King and Duke knows just how to parlay that. And it is just that simple. AND just that dangerous. And there is nothing in this world when the King and Duke run their Royal/ Victim scam that will snap the good townspeople out of it. With Trump if you think yourself in tight with him you are next " looser" off his team.
 
Exactly! Who is more authoritarian than the Dems who want to control every aspect of our lives.Nanny Sate on steroids? No thanks!
 
I said authoritarian and. Trump fan repeated it back. It’s as common as carbon
 
There was no gap in the aid, again Trump can’t withhold aid. The aid was going to be produced by September 30th, that was the plan, and hope. There’s a huge lag time between when aid is passed/obligated and when it’s delivered, the Ukrainians didn’t even know there were any discussions of it potentially being delayed on the July 25th call, another one of the reasons the whole quid pro quo argument fails. Multiple witnesses testified to that fact during the hearings, noting both that the Ukrainians didn’t know about the aid being delayed and that there’s a lag time. “Here is what Kent said while testifying at the impeachment hearings about how aid passed in 2018 was just getting there in October of this year: “It takes a while once money is obligated to actually reach the country. There were two island class ships that just arrived in the port of Odessa, that was with prior year money. So there’s about a lag of a year.” Kent confirmed. So while there may have been a freeze or discussions about delaying it, it was not ultimately withheld and there was NO gap.
 
I want to congratulate whoever it was the Trumpies hired to convince you of that. DO they somehow make Mulvany disappear also?
 
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Did you not listen to Kent’s testimony? Did you not look at State docs to see when it arrived, or the plan? Did you not see 400mil was not delayed and over 200mil delivered BEFORE July 25th. I don’t know need any convincing I can look at the documents, listen to embassy officials and read the statutes. If you want to accept at face value what the lying Dems and left wing media put out then go ahead. I bet you still also believe Schiff too when he says he has real proof Trump colluded with the Russians during the 2016 election…haha. Joke joke.
 
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mrad25 said:
Did you not listen to Kent’s testimony? Did you not look at State docs to see when it arrived, or the plan? Did you not see 400mil was not delayed and over 200mil delivered BEFORE July 25th. I don’t know need any convincing I can look at the documents, listen to embassy officials and read the statutes. If you want to accept at face value what the lying Dems and left wing media put out then go ahead. I bet you still also believe Schiff too when he says he has real proof Trump colluded with the Russians during the 2016 election…haha. Joke joke.
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Yeah, that’s just facts. But orange man bad.
 
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