Sorry for Judas

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dorothy_smith said:
Perhaps Judas was set up.

26: Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give this morsel when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
27: Then after the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.”
28: Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him. (Jn 13:26-28).

Jesus orchestrated events. He elected Judas in the morsel scenario. Satan then entered Judas. Jesus then told Satan to fulfil messianic prophesy. The only part that Judas played was that of the vessel in order to necessitate proceedings.
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God forces no one to do evil. (“That’s right, Lord, YOU put me in this position, so you are the guilty one, not me.” :rolleyes: )He knows our hearts, but does not force conversion on us. Thus Judas was not in anyway coerced by the Lord to allow Satan to enter him. :tsktsk: Judas, who is already known as a thief, gave consent to Satan’s entry to do what his already-corrupted heart led him to do. The Lord, of course, knew Judas’ heart and that all would work according to God’s plan because evil, though it has its temporary victories, will never be the victor in The End, but He doesn’t excuse his betrayal. Judas was no more a mere pawn in God’s plan than was the Blessed Mother; but while Mary said “yes”, Judas’ answer was “no.”

St. John depicts Judas very straight-forwardly as a common thief given over to greed – the price for the Lord was too tempting. It seems to me that trying to politicize his motives or trying to whitewash him as a mere pawn comes about because we see in Judas our own betrayals and we try to glamorize our sinfulness, or make it appear less than it is, and yet in Judas it comes down to greed – we don’t like thinking that we could possibly be as venal or that anything we do could possibly send us to Hell.
 
IMO I have long felt that Judas betrayed Jesus to force the issue of His getting rid of the Romans and being proclaimed King. Judas, as one of the Twelve would have then been in a position of authority (to his way of thinking) which would then have allowed him access to more money, power and luxurious living.

When he saw it all going wrong, and realising that the crowd had turned against Jesus, and that He was most probably going to be executed, Judas thought, “What have I done, I should have waited a while longer…”

But that’s just my opinion.
 
FCEGM said:
God forces no one to do evil. (“That’s right, Lord, YOU put me in this position, so you are the guilty one, not me.” :rolleyes: )He knows our hearts, but does not force conversion on us. Thus Judas was not in anyway coerced by the Lord to allow Satan to enter him. :tsktsk: Judas, who is already known as a thief, gave consent to Satan’s entry to do what his already-corrupted heart led him to do. The Lord, of course, knew Judas’ heart and that all would work according to God’s plan because evil, though it has its temporary victories, will never be the victor in The End, but He doesn’t excuse his betrayal. Judas was no more a mere pawn in God’s plan than was the Blessed Mother; but while Mary said “yes”, Judas’ answer was “no.”

St. John depicts Judas very straight-forwardly as a common thief given over to greed – the price for the Lord was too tempting. It seems to me that trying to politicize his motives or trying to whitewash him as a mere pawn comes about because we see in Judas our own betrayals and we try to glamorize our sinfulness, or make it appear less than it is, and yet in Judas it comes down to greed – we don’t like thinking that we could possibly be as venal or that anything we do could possibly send us to Hell.
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I am not trying to whitewash him as a mere pawn. The Bible tells us that he was a thief and a greedy person. We are agreed on that. But he must have had some goodness in him. After all he was one of Jesus’ closest friends for three years. He was one of the twelve disciples, a follower of Jesus.

It just saddens me why people don’t want to show any compassion or mercy towards him whatsoever. That to me doesn’t seem Christian. I, myself, agree that Judas did wrong by his betrayal. Of course I do.

I could give into peer pressure and vilify Judas too. Anyone that betrayed Our Lord and Saviour I call my enemy but Jesus taught us to love our enemies?

If I thought in all sincerity that showing compassion towards Judas was trying to glamorize him then I ask for forgiveness. I do not want to condone anything that is sinful. But, I can’t help myself feeling sorry for Judas. I wish someone could convince me otherwise.

I feel quite depressed and sinful. Do you think that I should go to confession and speak to a priest?
 
dorothy_smith said:
I could give into peer pressure and vilify Judas too. Anyone that betrayed Our Lord and Saviour I call my enemy but Jesus taught us to love our enemies?

If I thought in all sincerity that showing compassion towards Judas was trying to glamorize him then I ask for forgiveness. I do not want to condone anything that is sinful. But, I can’t help myself feeling sorry for Judas. I wish someone could convince me otherwise.

I feel quite depressed and sinful. Do you think that I should go to confession and speak to a priest?
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I said it before, and I’ll say it again. Dorothy, there is nothing wrong with feeling sorry for Judas. I think it’s the Christian thing to do and very admirable.

Should we love our enemies? Of course. I wish we all could remember that little detail of Jesus’ sermon on the mount (or was it the plains?).
 
I agree, there is nothing wrong with feeling sorry for Judas, because we are all capable of sin such as his; let’s hope we realize we are likewise capable of the kind of remorse that Peter had. . .

Dorothy, your only difficulty IMO is that you are feeling sorry for Judas on purely human terms (another poster who pulled out the C.S. Lewis quote I was referencing earlier points this out well). You note that Christ told us to love our enemies and this is true. He also told us to ‘be perfect as My Father is perfect.’

Lots of people today think that love, as limited to our ‘human’ thought, means that people never have to be sorry or suffer, never have to be told when they are in danger of mortal sin, never have to be forced, etc. But that isn’t the case.

Poor Judas. He had many opportunities to do the right thing but in the end, it appears that he chose, and chose freely, doing wrong. I do hope he may have had the chance to truly repent and may be forgiven. . . but I trust in God. Whatever God has judged, no matter how it ‘appears’ to me, will be perfectly right and true.

If you, Dorothy, feel that if God judges someone–anyone–has put himself in hell, and even though you are sorry for the person you know God has done the right thing–then you are in perfect conformance with the faith. It’s only when you question like “how could God do something I feel is so evil” that you might start to go astray.
 
Dorothy, “Tantum” has fully expressed - and far more eloquently - what I would say to you in this regard. Do not lose heart! :blessyou:
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Poor Judas. He had many opportunities to do the right thing but in the end, it appears that he chose, and chose freely, doing wrong. I do hope he may have had the chance to truly repent and may be forgiven. . . but I trust in God. Whatever God has judged, no matter how it ‘appears’ to me, will be perfectly right and true.

If you, Dorothy, feel that if God judges someone–anyone–has put himself in hell, and even though you are sorry for the person you know God has done the right thing–then you are in perfect conformance with the faith. It’s only when you question like “how could God do something I feel is so evil” that you might start to go astray.
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Yes, I trust in God also - with all my heart. I get curious and inquisitive sometimes but I know that God is all merciful and love and whatever He judges is right. Sometimes I don’t understand in human terms but I know that God is right.

I’ve been reading the Bible and in Revelation 21:8 it says that traitors are damned. Judas was a traitor.
21:8 But cowards, traitors, perverts, murderers, the immoral, those who practice magic, those who worship idols, and all liars—the place for them is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
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It also says that cowards are damned and all liars also. That bit frightened me because I think that I can be a coward sometimes and I do tell white lies sometimes. Please will you explain this bit to me - I mean, please will you give me your opinion?
 
The ‘cowards’ perhaps refers to those who denied Jesus and His Church at the time of persecution. Like the seed on rocky soil that grows, yet after the sun rises, dies quickly.
 
I prayed all night for an answer and then went to confession today. I told the priest that I have sinned for questioning God’s judgement in relation to Judas Iscariot.

The priest gave the answer that I prayed for.
Matthew:
Quote:
“The son of man is going to his fate, as the scriptures say he will, but alas for that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! Better for that man if he had never been born!” 26:24-25
Mark:
Quote:
“Yes, the Son of man is going to his fate, as the scriptures say he will, but alas for that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! Better for that man if he had never been born!” 14:21
Luke:
Quote:
“The Son of man is indeed on the path which was decreed, but alas for that man by whom he is betrayed!” 22:22-23
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In reference to the scripture above: The priest told me that not all prophecy is fulfilled. He said that the prophecy (above) was made before Judas repented. He went on to say that it is very reasonable to suggest that Judas did repent, that he was deeply sorry for his betrayal. He also said that the Catholic Church does not say that Judas is in Hell. He also mentioned that Judas is a saint in the Orthodox Church.

He finished by saying ‘my questioning my faith is not a sin. He said we all do that, even we priests.’ He then absolved me from my sin (and told me to say a decade of the rosary).
 
dorothy_smith said:
I prayed all night for an answer and then went to confession today. I told the priest that I have sinned for questioning God’s judgement in relation to Judas Iscariot.

The priest gave the answer that I prayed for.

In reference to the scripture above: The priest told me that not all prophecy is fulfilled. He said that the prophecy (above) was made before Judas repented. He went on to say that it is very reasonable to suggest that Judas did repent, that he was deeply sorry for his betrayal. He also said that the Catholic Church does not say that Judas is in Hell. He also mentioned that Judas is a saint in the Orthodox Church.

He finished by saying ‘my questioning my faith is not a sin. He said we all do that, even we priests.’ He then absolved me from my sin (and told me to say a decade of the rosary).
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I’m glad you had a good confession, Dorothy. 👍 🙂 But a small point regarding Father’s words about prophecy: Our Lord’s words regarding Judas are not prophecy, but observation, i.e., that it would have been better had the one who will betray Him not been born. Further, whether Judas repented remains to be seen. And Judas Iscariot a Saint in the Orthodox Churches??!! This from an Orthodox site seems to indicate not:
Wednesday: The Betrayal by Judas is remembered. (Fast Day).
Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus Christ on Wednesday and for this reason this day is considered somber and sorrowful. We fast on this day and we mediate on our betrayed Lord. The two words betrayer and betrayal are resentful and abominable in any language. If on this day we find time to think of our Lord’s betrayal, we ourselves could avoid our daily betrayals. We could avoid, in other words the little betrayals with which we choke off our conscience in order to be accepted by the world, and also bigger betrayals when we betray innocent, just, and good people. We would avoid betraying our faith and our conscience for worldly riches and for daily power for glory. For we all know very well that the betrayed sooner or later are resurrected and become heroes, martyrs and saints. The betrayers, however, remain marked and stained forever. “Through the Power of Your Cross, Lord, save us from every betrayal.”
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Fr_Ambrose said:
Um, NO! But I agree with your priest on his other points.
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When my priest said that, I replied really? He said ‘ah yes, in the Eastern Orthodox Church’ and then carried on talking about other matters to do with my confession. I did think about what he said about Judas being a saint but I didn’t want to interrupt the flow of what he was telling me about my confession as a whole. I didn’t feel right to have him reiterate what he said.

I can only guess that he perhaps got Judas Iscariot mixed up with Judas Thaddaeus?!

Jude (or Judas) is a Christian saint and one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus. He is also called Thaddaeus, Thaddeus or Judas Thaddaeus. He should not be confused with Judas Iscariot, another apostle and later the betrayer of Jesus.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Jude
 
dorothy_smith said:
When my priest said that, I replied really? He said ‘ah yes, in the Eastern Orthodox Church’ and then carried on talking about other matters to do with my confession. I did think about what he said about Judas being a saint but I didn’t want to interrupt the flow of what he was telling me about my confession as a whole. I didn’t feel right to have him reiterate what he said.

I can only guess that he perhaps got Judas Iscariot mixed up with Judas Thaddaeus?!

Jude (or Judas) is a Christian saint and one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus. He is also called Thaddaeus, Thaddeus or Judas Thaddaeus. He should not be confused with Judas Iscariot, another apostle and later the betrayer of Jesus.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Jude
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But St. Jude is recognized in the Latin Rite as well, so there would be no reason to point this out as exclusive to the Eastern Rite.
 
Judas did betray our Lord, and in a way, that had to happen. BUT it didn’t need to end the way it did.

Judas could easily have repented and reconciled. If he did, it would probably be the penultimate example of God’s mercy and forgiveness (the ultimate example would be the Crucifixion).

Try looking online for Saint Catherine of Siena’s book. There are free PDF versions out there. It talks about how Judas sinned against the Holy Spirit by refusing to submit to God’s mercy.

Damnation belongs only to those who choose it. Judas unfortunately made the wrong decision.
dorothy_smith said:
I can’t help feeling sorry for Judas if he has to suffer eternal damnation?? Do you think that Jesus forgave him? and that he is now in heaven with Jesus? After all, Judas played an integral part in fulfilling messianic prophesies. It called be argued that Judas was a lesser Chosen One??
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