Southern Baptists and saved/born again...

[zz912]

the position of priest died when Jesus Christ died because Jesus Christ was the last sacrifice for sin. The book of Acts is a perfect picture of an independent Baptist church

Justnobody

Could you give chapter and verse backing your claims?

 

[jlhargus]

That is correct. Baptism has no part in the salvation process after Christ (that is Biblical).

JL: I challenge you or anyone to post your biblical SCRIPTURE showing YOUR view of BAPTISM.? Not to be offensive, but you won’t because you simply can’t. Your view of baptism is totally UNBIBLICAL.

Baptism as a witness, profession, confession or symbol, is nothing more than an Anabaptist tradition of men, made a doctrine in the sixteen hundreds, to nullify the Word of God concering the sacrament of baptism. At Pentecost, Peter gives the best teaching on baptism and how one is set on the road of salvation.

[Acts2:37 Now **WHEN THEY HEARD this, THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART, AND SAID unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO? 38 Then PETER SAID unto them, REPENT, and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall RECEIVE the gift of THE HOLY GHOST. The promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.]

First the adult hears the Word, that word pricks their heart and they believe. They then ask, What must we do? Peter said, REPENT, BE BAPTIZED FOR remission of sins, RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit. Was Peter in error? With your tradition of men doctrine. Peter should have said, Since you now believe you have been auto baptized and have already received the Holy Spirit. Now you can repent and be baptized as a confession of faith.

[Acts2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, **SAVE YOURSELVES from the untoward generation. 41 THEN they that gladly RECEIVED his word were BAPTIZED: and the SAME DAY were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED stedfastly IN THE APOSTLES’ doctrine and FELLOWSHIP, and in breaking of bread (Mass), and in prayers.] Notice Peter says SAVE YOURSELVES. How? By being BAPTIZED thru which they WERE ADDED to that ONE VISIBLE apostolic fellowship the Church the BODY OF CHRIST.

1Pt3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[TITUS 3:5 NOT by WORKS…we’ve done BUT by **HIS MERCY he SAVED us BY the WASHING of REGENERATION and RENEWING of the HOLY SPIRIT 6 which he POURED OUT ON US richly THROUGH JESUS Christ our Savior 7 SO we might be JUSTIFIED BY his GRACE and become HEIRS…]

How are we washed? By water and a cleansing agent. The Holy Spirit is the cleansing agent in water baptism. The Sacrament of Baptism not only remits, washes and cleanses, of sins but regenerates our soul, by POURING OUT the Holy Spirit. That indwelling Holy Spirit, justifies us by his grace making us a child of God and heirs. In baptism the body is now dead to sin, whereas before the soul was dead, and slave to the flesh. Now the body (flesh) is subject to the regenerated soul, by the Holy Spirit indwelling. Now we no longer live in old Adam but are born again into the new Adam.

[Gal 3:26 For YE ARE all the CHILDREN OF GOD by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For AS MANY of you **AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST.]

Jn3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee. EXCEPT a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jn3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be BORN of water AND of the Spirit, he CANNOT ENTER into the KINGDOM OF GOD.
Act22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[jlhargus]

Once saved, always saved that is correct. Where in the Holy Bible says you can lose salvation? Take care and God Bless. Ed

JL: [Hb6:4 For it is impossible for THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND have TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, 5 And have TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, 6 IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.] [Hb10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.]

[Mt12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.] So we can dismiss, the OSAS tradition of men to nullify the Word, right away. As it contradicts scripture AND either way you slice Hb6:4-6. Can or can’t be renewed again, Hb6 still contradicts OSAS.

Paul is addressing a Christian community of those who have been ENLIGHTENED. They are not on the brink of being enlightened they are ENLIGHTENED and HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, They have the indwelling Holy Ghost.

Paul warns BELIEVERS, of the danger of apostasy, alluding to those ONCE Jewish Christians, who LEFT. Fell away from the Christian community and returned to Judaism. Once again placing their faith in circumcision and animal sacrifice, which can never renew them again to repentance taking away sin. It is impossible for them to repent and be renewed, apart from Christ and the Christian Community. As long as they remain hostile to the Gospel, it is impossible to renew them unto repentance. [Hb10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.] Only the blood of Christ can take away sins. Thru baptism and confession for sins after baptism. Thru those Sacraments the fruit of the blood are applied to a sinful soul.

[Gal5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 **CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are justified by the law; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.]

Judaizers (Jewish Christians) who are circumcised, and claim Christians must be circumcised, are FALLEN FROM GRACE. In order to be, “fallen from grace”, they must first HAVE been in GRACE.

[1Cor6:9 Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,] How many times does one have to be a fornicator, to be unrighteous? How many times does one have to be an idolater to be unrighteous?
]Rms6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.] How many times do you have to commit adultery, before you are an adulterer and reap it’s wages? How many times do you have to murder, before you reap it’s wages?

 

[jlhargus]

Once saved, always saved that is correct. Where in the Holy Bible says you can lose salvation? Take care and God Bless. Ed

JL: [Hb6:4 For it is impossible for THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND have TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, 5 And have TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, 6 IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.] [Hb10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.]

[Mt12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.] So we can dismiss, the OSAS tradition of men to nullify the Word, right away. As it contradicts scripture AND either way you slice Hb6:4-6. Can or can’t be renewed again, Hb6 still contradicts OSAS.

Paul is addressing a Christian community of those who have been ENLIGHTENED. They are not on the brink of being enlightened they are ENLIGHTENED and HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, They have the indwelling Holy Ghost.

Paul warns BELIEVERS, of the danger of apostasy, alluding to those ONCE Jewish Christians, who LEFT. Fell away from the Christian community and returned to Judaism. Once again placing their faith in circumcision and animal sacrifice, which can never renew them again to repentance taking away sin. It is impossible for them to repent and be renewed, apart from Christ and the Christian Community. As long as they remain hostile to the Gospel, it is impossible to renew them unto repentance. [Hb10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.] Only the blood of Christ can take away sins. Thru baptism and confession for sins after baptism. Thru those Sacraments the fruit of the blood are applied to a sinful soul.

[Gal5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 **CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU, whosoever of you are justified by the law; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.]

Judaizers (Jewish Christians) who are circumcised, and claim Christians must be circumcised, are FALLEN FROM GRACE. In order to be, “fallen from grace”, they must first HAVE been in GRACE.

[1Cor6:9 Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,] How many times does one have to be a fornicator, to be unrighteous? How many times does one have to be an idolater to be unrighteous?

]Rms6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.] How many times do you have to commit adultery, before you are an adulterer and reap it’s wages? How many times do you have to murder, before you reap it’s wages?

 

[Bix]

Initially, seeing the title of this thread I was eager to post and help others understand what being born again means to many Baptists or share some of the Southern Baptist beliefs having grown up in a Baptist Church in the south over 35 years. Upon further reading, it simply saddens me to no end that the majority of this thread is bashing Baptists rather than merely trying to learn the differences and beliefs to educate one another and maybe find someone who listens and then becomes interested in Catholicism. Being in the midst of converting from Baptist to Catholicism… I couldn’t be more disappointed in both sides. Very few here took a Christian approach and others turned a question regarding being born again into a battle of who’s right and who’s wrong. Worse yet, I now totally see why each side says negative things about the other- from posts and comments like this. Saying Baptists don’t read the Bible, or another post (maybe this one) comparing them to atheists. What is wrong with you? If ANY of you have read the Bible, surely you didn’t miss how it says we are to treat one another. Regardless your belief, regardless whether or not you’re right, in the end you’re wrong. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ whether you like it or not. As often as people post not understanding why people don’t convert to Catholicism- why would they after being here? If they did want to, why in the world would they feel welcome?

Sadly, I understand and can see for the first time why so many live with their Bible and no church home.

Just my thoughts

 

[Bix]

Jesus Himself personally appears at Second Baptist Church of East South Wherever and makes the decision to hire or fire a pastor? And these decisions are accepted by the congregation without them lifting a finger???

First of all- regarding this :

Jesus Himself personally appears at Second Baptist Church of East South Wherever and makes the decision to hire or fire a pastor? And these decisions are accepted by the congregation without them lifting a finger???

I doubt this happened, but who says that it’s not impossible? I believe in Catholicism it’s referred to as apparitions or visions. (feel free to correct my terminology as I’m still new to Catholicism)

Secondly:

Yes or no, does virtually very Baptist church have a committe or congregational vote on hiring, firing, punishing, and rewarding pastors and deacons

Yes- they are called DEACONS

 

[Genovefa]

Initially, seeing the title of this thread I was eager to post and help others understand what being born again means to many Baptists or share some of the Southern Baptist beliefs having grown up in a Baptist Church in the south over 35 years. Upon further reading, it simply saddens me to no end that the majority of this thread is bashing Baptists rather than merely trying to learn the differences and beliefs to educate one another and maybe find someone who listens and then becomes interested in Catholicism. Being in the midst of converting from Baptist to Catholicism… I couldn’t be more disappointed in both sides. Very few here took a Christian approach and others turned a question regarding being born again into a battle of who’s right and who’s wrong. Worse yet, I now totally see why each side says negative things about the other- from posts and comments like this. Saying Baptists don’t read the Bible, or another post (maybe this one) comparing them to atheists. What is wrong with you? If ANY of you have read the Bible, surely you didn’t miss how it says we are to treat one another. Regardless your belief, regardless whether or not you’re right, in the end you’re wrong. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ whether you like it or not. As often as people post not understanding why people don’t convert to Catholicism- why would they after being here? If they did want to, why in the world would they feel welcome?

Sadly, I understand and can see for the first time why so many live with their Bible and no church home.

Just my thoughts

I generally agree. There seems to be some misinformation on both sides. I teach in a religious high school where the majority of the students are Baptist or from fundamentalist congregations. Now these are students who have grown up with formal religious instruction, not just the Sunday school variety. I find that they are not at all oppositional towards Catholics, And they do have substantial knowledge of the Bible as well as Christian apologetics. In my teaching, I quite often explain to them differences between Catholicism and Protestants. They understand the differences enough to be respectful and have not heard a negative remark towards Catholics in over 10 years. However, I had one student this last year tell me that Mary was merely a “vessel”. This angered me, as God would not use any human being in such a demeaning manner as being “merely a vessel.” He also laughed a great deal when we were discussing transubstantiation. But for the most part I do not encounter views like his, and he was known for being extreme in his religious as well as political views.

Anyway, sorry to ramble.

 

[Defender1]

Ed,

I’m pretty sure the Church teaches that our Baptism is when we are born of water and spirit at Christ said. Does She not?

John chapter 3 (Jesus conversation with Nicodemus) He says that we must be born with water and spirit .

 

[Defender1]

a true baptist church is one that is started under the auspices of a supporting organization such as a Regular Baptist Church under the auspices of the GARBC or Southern Baptist under the SBC

anybody that starts their own church can call it anything they like even catholic, but that does mean it is a catholic church same as someone starting a church and calling it baptist does not make it a Baptist church

JUSTNOBODY

West Boro Baptist could be an example. They are not real Baptists because of what they stand for (way out in no mans land talk) just as there being churches with the name catholic on them but having woman priests .(Shanon Oconnor female musician that tore a picture of the Pope on SNL is now a female priest in a church that calls itself catholic .)

 

[Defender1]

However Baptist is not a denomination and not all churches that call themselfs Baptist are true Baptist churches

justnobody

Baptist is a protestant denomination .You see, If you are claiming the Christian faith as your faith and you are not a Roman Catholic you are then known as protestant because you are protesting the catholic church . And since the Baptist church was founded by John Smyth in 1611(could be 1612) it is a protestant denomination ,regardless of when you base foundation .(many baptists claim John the Baptizer as their founder .Truth be told he stated that the lord must increase and he must decrease not intending to have people named “Baptist”

 

[Defender1]

each baptist church is an indendent, democraticly run orginization such as were the churches in the New testament. An ordaination council is made up of pastors of other church of like faith (Baptist) such as they were in the new Testament

justnobody

The churches of the NT were all part of the Catholic church (universal church)The one he built (in Matthew 16 he stated that he was building a church not churches . These churches were all under Christs authority . They were all product of the one church he was intending to build .

 

[Defender1]

the position of priest died when Jesus Christ died because Jesus Christ was the last sacrifice for sin. The book of Acts is a perfect picture of an independent Baptist church

Justnobody

If that were the case then Paul and Peter as well s the other would not have written instructions to clergy in the NT . Presbytors of the NT are todays priests just so you know .ANd when we sin deliberately after knowing the truth the sacrifice for sin is lost (Hebrews 10:26 )

 

[Defender1]

disagree; as a Catholic for the first forty year of my life and Baptist for the last thirty five and reading loads of religious material along with a careful study of te Book of Acts it became quite clear the the early church was as the Baptist is today.

justnobody

While you were CAtholic you must have not known your faith to believe that . Most converts from the CAtholic church never really knew it in the first place. As I said before John never intended to have a group named after him "He must increase I must decrease " Baptist church founded by John Smyth 1611 (not Jesus )

 

[Bix]

Defender1, seeing as you know everything about all religions and enjoy hearing yourself talk, how about answering the OP’s original question and get back on topic or start your own thread or forum?

 

[zz912]

First of all- regarding this :

I doubt this happened, but who says that it’s not impossible? I believe in Catholicism it’s referred to as apparitions or visions. (feel free to correct my terminology as I’m still new to Catholicism)

Secondly:

Yes- they are called DEACONS

So every Baptist church in the world has an apparition of Jesus whenever they are hiring, firing, or rewarding their pastors and deacons? We are dancing around the fact that Baptist churches have instituted a level of authority in their church that is unbiblical. And as a former Baptist I was trying to point this out to the OP. Sadly he refused to admit this blatant fact.

As to your second point, do the deacons hire and fire themselves? And where is this supported by the Bible?

 

[Bix]

So every Baptist church in the world has an apparition of Jesus whenever they are hiring, firing, or rewarding their pastors and deacons? We are dancing around the fact that Baptist churches have instituted a level of authority in their church that is unbiblical. And as a former Baptist I was trying to point this out to the OP. Sadly he refused to admit this blatant fact.

As to your second point, do the deacons hire and fire themselves? And where is this supported by the Bible?

I’m not here to debate you or anyone else. Read my earlier post. If you are truly that interested, there are many credible sources online. Also, if you had taken the time to slowly read my reply… I said that I didn’t believe that Jesus came in and did that, but also stated who’s to say He couldn’t have…

God Bless

 

[Bix]

This is the original poster’s question

i was wondering when baptists think that they are born again/the new birth?

I think they say a prayer=the sinner’s prayer/altar call and/or baptism too.

But lately they don’t that altar call stuff anymore.

I think they’re kind of confused about how to be born again…

 

[Jim_Dandy]

This is the original poster’s question

Originally Posted by jason3477
i was wondering when baptists think that they are born again/the new birth?

I think they say a prayer=the sinner’s prayer/altar call and/or baptism too.

But lately they don’t that altar call stuff anymore.

I think they’re kind of confused about how to be born again

Hi, Bix,

Thanks for posting. And thanks for reposting the OP. I had forgotten that I wanted to ask if his/her understanding is correct. So I’ll ask you, if you don’t mind.

I grew up Southern Baptist, and altar calls were very much part of every Sunday’s service, Still true?

I “got saved” when I was 10 or 11 by answering the altar call. The preacher recited the Sinner’s Prayer and I repeated it after him. Still true?

I was “born again” when I answered that call and "accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Still true?

I was baptized much later, but only to show publicly that I had already been saved and to follow the example of Jesus. It was only a symbol. I was about 12 or 13 years old. Is the practice still the same?

As a young adult, I began to have doubts and went to my pastor. He told me I should be baptized again. So I was. But I’ve still never found anywhere in the New Testament that anyone was baptized twice. Is this still the practice?

My Southern Baptist denomination taught Once Saved, Always Saved. Is this still one of the main doctrines?

BTW, the SBs I belonged to were, I’m sorry to say, strongly anti-Catholic. I grew up being taught that the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon and the Pope was the Antichrist. That was from Martin Luther, so the Baptists didn’t start it! Every week, the Sunday School teacher or the pastor of both would attack Catholics and the Church, even if it was just a sentence or two. Others have had the same experience. That may account for some of the attitudes you are finding. And there’s some resentment, for lack of a better word, because there was so much emphasis on the Bible, but most of us were not taught where it came from. Nor did we learn early Church history.

Other SBs on the forum have said that there was none of that anti-Catholicism in their community. So I guess it depends on the pastor.

Thank you

Jim Dandy

 

[zz912]

I’m not here to debate you or anyone else. Read my earlier post. If you are truly that interested, there are many credible sources online. Also, if you had taken the time to slowly read my reply… I said that I didn’t believe that Jesus came in and did that, but also stated who’s to say He couldn’t have…

God Bless

Well I’m not here to be lectured to by rude people. I reserve the right to respond to posts whenever I feel like it.

So if you aren’t here for debate, what are you here for? To post your benevolent wisdom and for everyone else to marvel at? The whole point of this place is to express ideas, debate, and spread knowledge of the Catholic Faith.

 

[Bix]

Its been about seven years since I was in the Baptist church, but will answer as best I can from my experience.

Yes, the babies were presented at altar call and the preacher said a little prayer. *This did not mean they were saved, born again, etc.

Baptists I know consider babies and children as innocents and if they were to perish young, they go to heaven. In part due to being too young and not having heard the Word. Let’s not get into any bizarre what if’s, please.

As far as accepting Christ or becoming baptized, this occurred at the time the child expressed his /her beliefs as well as understanding of God, Jesus having come as our savior and of the Holy Spirit and their wishes to be baptized and accept Jesus into their hearts. Much of this also had to do with the parent’s consent and evaluating if the child grasped this understanding. Most children did this between the ages of 8-12. The child (after speaking with the parents and usually the pastor) walked up during the altar call proclaiming their intentions to the pastor, who in turn presented and announced them to the church. The baptisms were usually held once a month or so. When one is baptized, they come up from the water being washed of their sins and anew. Not born again. *The children also go through a 4-6 week class for further education. All of this constituted being saved, acknowledging the Trinity and Jesus Christ as their personal savior. This has nothing to do with being born again. This is accepting Jesus Christ and being saved. (I believe a completely new thread would have to be started for the whole once saved, always saved opinions)

The church I was a member of was Baptist and in the south, but wasn’t Southern Baptist. Maybe there are churches who view this differently(I’m sure there are) but this was my experience from the time of being a baby and child in the church through my adult years teaching. *

The last few years, yes, they did begin to adopt those policies along with the many titles which is when I left. Not the only reason I left, but is when I left.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

I have never heard of anyone being or needing to be baptized a second time. Regardless. If one so feels the need, they could walk up during the altar call and make a public proclamation of recommitting their life to Jesus if maybe they felt moved to go into mission service or had a personal desire or need to recommitment, but this had nothing to do with the pastor unless someone wanted to tell him ahead of time and was a personal decision.

Of course, this is only based on my experience.

God Bless

God Bless