Spain's new cardinal says homosexuality a 'defect'

[Hoosier_Daddy]

And tell me, what are we telling them they can say yes to? Heterosexuals can say yes to marriage in which sex can very much be just as satisfying or more so than fornication and definitely more so than porn, but what about gay people, what can they say yes to?

What about the basic human need of intimacy? To belong? We fail to include them, when we get older we pair off two by two and then the lay celibate is left alone as all their friends get paired off and go do things with other couples. We need to stop laying burdens on them and instead walk alongside of them, helping them as others help and have helped us.

Correlation does not imply causation

Tell you? well, I can’t. We live in a culture where sex is seen as not only a right but right up there with food and shelter. We live in a world where there is no societal “yes” for them to say. Because people have said yes to bigger causes than their sex organs for some time. Artists, soldiers, policemen, teachers, have always said a meaningful “yes” in secular society. They all have intimate (not sexual) relationships with friends. Marriages have been torn apart by people saying yes to other vocations. So they are out there, there is a yes for them. And ultimately their “yes” should be to God. That is all our vocations. I trust that God has a vocation in mind for each and every homosexual. I just know that it is not marriage and sodomy.

Honestly, it sounds like you are making a case for homosexual marriage based on “intimacy” I hope that is not the case. But you are correct, we must walk along side them. We just must make sure we are walking with them on the side walk, not the gutter.

Correlation does not imply causation

Fancy one liner qips do not imply your point as well. Do you wish to comment on the subject I commented on or do you just wish to dismiss it with an alliteration oneliner?

The subject was the pain physical and emotional that homosexuals experience. We should be careful though when talking about sodomy to not get too graphic, there may be young eyes that read this. Perhaps it does not belong. But it is true that people gloss over the biology and reality of homosexual sex.

 

[LisaA]

I

***But I know many many gay people and have had very in depth, candid and explicit talks with them. The media and the gay culture have an agenda and that agenda begins with cleaning up and making natural the things that go on. What the media wants you to see is a sassy gay friend who says “giiiiirrrl” or someone to help you dress nice, or someone who is funny, or two caring “parents” or two nice middle aged men holding hands in vermont while looking at antique shops. That is not reality. It is about sodomy, it is about debauchery, it is about denying holiness in exchange for “freedom” It is about broken lives and broken bodies. But the media and society are talking about “born this way” ***
Well, I was born with the inclination to like redheads and more than one readhead at that. My wife though is a brunette and I am monogamous. Somehow, I can change, but if I liked sodomy I couldn’t?

Thank you for speaking the truth and it sounds as if you know this from personal experience. Much as I am seen on CAF as being “anti gay” the reality is that I know and have known a LOT of gays. I have a gay cousin. I had a highly developed “gaydar” that resulted in several gay men with whom I worked confiding in me and I kept their secret (at the time it was NOT cool to be gay and a downtown white shirt professional firm) until management found out and fired them both. I have had several VERY close friends whom I could ask virtually any question and I truly feel I understand more about this lifestyle than those who watched “Will & Grace” or “Queer Eye” (aside, I knew Carson in his prior life when he was an official for a national organization with which I was affiliated and he was as entertaining then as on the show).

The media, the Left and the homosexualist activists all perpetuate many lies about SSA, the normalization crusade being the one most damaging to our society. It creates hideous situations where children are by definition prevented from having a mommy or a daddy, where children are bred like animals, where young men in desperate situations are used by older homosexual males. It’s not as you said about two middle aged guys antiquing in the Green Mountains of Vermont. There is a very seamy side, particularly with respect to the young males. There are health problems, particularly again among the males because of the sexual practices and because of the tendency to promiscuity. There are certainly emotional problems and as you say in a later post, higher incidence of suicide, drug use and other negative behaviors.

The thing I find most maddening and infuriating is the foisting of this myth that if at some point in time you are engaged in a same sex relationship, you are accorded all manner of special rights and consideration. We’ve seen numerous threads about lawsuits against bakers and photographers and B&B owners because the business owners did not provide what the gay/Lesbian couple demanded. We now have curricula attempting to normalize homosexuality in PRIMARY grades.

No matter how appealing an individual gay couple or sweet Lesbian is personally, and indeed I am extremely fond of my gay friends, the reality is the behavior is not normal, not healthy and not equivalent to male/female marriages. It is not genetic. It is changeable within one’s lifetime. Interesting how someone can live a straight life until say age 50, marry, raise a family and then “come out” to the cheering of the gay activists as “being who you really are…” But when someone who’s lived the gay or Lesbian life and then reverts to heterosexuality (normal) the gay activists are shrill in their condemnation, their cries that the person is faking it, that he/she doesn’t know who they REALLY are. What they really are is a human being, no longer controlled by their genitalia. But that is unforgivable…you’ve abandoned the tribe and must be punished.

As you said, the real story is far more than an episode of “Modern Family”

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

What about the basic human need of intimacy? To belong? We fail to include them, when we get older we pair off two by two and then the lay celibate is left alone as all their friends get paired off and go do things with other couples. We need to stop laying burdens on them and instead walk alongside of them, helping them as others help and have helped us.

One need not have a sexual relationship to have an intimate relationship. Where did you get that idea? Do you not have any close female friends? I’ve had female friends, my sister, aunts and cousins with whom I’ve had intimate emotional relationships. There was no sexual component in any of them. As to the theory “as we get older we pair off…” only speaks against the idea of homosexuality. The reason for the pair bond in humans (and some animals) is to conceive and raise CHILDREN, something homosexuals cannot do. A same sex couple may engage in sexual activity but to claim it’s equivalent to normal sexual relationships denotes a misunderstanding of basic biology. I have no doubt that same sex couples can be dear friends and can provide each other with sexual pleasure. But to claim that one must be in a pair with sexual activity demeans the many other intimate relationships in human interaction.

Fr Larry Richards’ and Fr James Martin’s books address the issue of celibacy and how Priests’ lives can be very full of close emotional ties with others without necessitating a sexual component. You might look for these books, they are very helpful for those who cannot imagine a life where you say no to the vocation of marriage does not mean saying no to all intimate relationships with other human beings.

Lisa

 

[meltzerboy]

Thank you for speaking the truth and it sounds as if you know this from personal experience. Much as I am seen on CAF as being “anti gay” the reality is that I know and have known a LOT of gays. I have a gay cousin. I had a highly developed “gaydar” that resulted in several gay men with whom I worked confiding in me and I kept their secret (at the time it was NOT cool to be gay and a downtown white shirt professional firm) until management found out and fired them both. I have had several VERY close friends whom I could ask virtually any question and I truly feel I understand more about this lifestyle than those who watched “Will & Grace” or “Queer Eye” (aside, I knew Carson in his prior life when he was an official for a national organization with which I was affiliated and he was as entertaining then as on the show).

The media, the Left and the homosexualist activists all perpetuate many lies about SSA, the normalization crusade being the one most damaging to our society. It creates hideous situations where children are by definition prevented from having a mommy or a daddy, where children are bred like animals, where young men in desperate situations are used by older homosexual males. It’s not as you said about two middle aged guys antiquing in the Green Mountains of Vermont. There is a very seamy side, particularly with respect to the young males. There are health problems, particularly again among the males because of the sexual practices and because of the tendency to promiscuity. There are certainly emotional problems and as you say in a later post, higher incidence of suicide, drug use and other negative behaviors.

The thing I find most maddening and infuriating is the foisting of this myth that if at some point in time you are engaged in a same sex relationship, you are accorded all manner of special rights and consideration. We’ve seen numerous threads about lawsuits against bakers and photographers and B&B owners because the business owners did not provide what the gay/Lesbian couple demanded. We now have curricula attempting to normalize homosexuality in PRIMARY grades.

No matter how appealing an individual gay couple or sweet Lesbian is personally, and indeed I am extremely fond of my gay friends, the reality is the behavior is not normal, not healthy and not equivalent to male/female marriages. It is not genetic. It is changeable within one’s lifetime. Interesting how someone can live a straight life until say age 50, marry, raise a family and then “come out” to the cheering of the gay activists as “being who you really are…” But when someone who’s lived the gay or Lesbian life and then reverts to heterosexuality (normal) the gay activists are shrill in their condemnation, their cries that the person is faking it, that he/she doesn’t know who they REALLY are. What they really are is a human being, no longer controlled by their genitalia. But that is unforgivable…you’ve abandoned the tribe and must be punished.

As you said, the real story is far more than an episode of “Modern Family”

Lisa

Based on your last paragraph, Lisa, you appear to be saying that when a gay person reverts to normal heterosexual behavior, they are a human being and not controlled by their genitalia. This suggests that when a straight person comes out as gay, they are not a human being but instead controlled only by their genitalia? My question is, why the distinction? Why aren’t both people considered to be human beings not controlled by their genitalia?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Tell you? well, I can’t. We live in a culture where sex is seen as not only a right but right up there with food and shelter. We live in a world where there is no societal “yes” for them to say. Because people have said yes to bigger causes than their sex organs for some time. Artists, soldiers, policemen, teachers, have always said a meaningful “yes” in secular society. They all have intimate (not sexual) relationships with friends. Marriages have been torn apart by people saying yes to other vocations. So they are out there, there is a yes for them. And ultimately their “yes” should be to God. That is all our vocations. I trust that God has a vocation in mind for each and every homosexual. I just know that it is not marriage and sodomy.

Honestly, it sounds like you are making a case for homosexual marriage based on “intimacy” I hope that is not the case. But you are correct, we must walk along side them. We just must make sure we are walking with them on the side walk, not the gutter.

Fancy one liner qips do not imply your point as well. Do you wish to comment on the subject I commented on or do you just wish to dismiss it with an alliteration oneliner?

The subject was the pain physical and emotional that homosexuals experience. We should be careful though when talking about sodomy to not get too graphic, there may be young eyes that read this. Perhaps it does not belong. But it is true that people gloss over the biology and reality of homosexual sex.

Define “vocation”

Sex is only one type of intimacy.

1. it is spelled “quip”,
2. it is not witty therefore it isn’t a quip,
3. it isn’t alliterative,
4. Gay people have a high rate of depression and suicide ≠ homosexuality causes depression and suicide
5. A large minority of sexually active gay people have never and do not ever intend to engage in anal sex
6. I’m not defending sodomy
7. Sodomy is immoral regardless of if it is two men, two women or a man and a woman.

One need not have a sexual relationship to have an intimate relationship. Where did you get that idea? Do you not have any close female friends? I’ve had female friends, my sister, aunts and cousins with whom I’ve had intimate emotional relationships. There was no sexual component in any of them. As to the theory “as we get older we pair off…” only speaks against the idea of homosexuality. The reason for the pair bond in humans (and some animals) is to conceive and raise CHILDREN, something homosexuals cannot do. A same sex couple may engage in sexual activity but to claim it’s equivalent to normal sexual relationships denotes a misunderstanding of basic biology. I have no doubt that same sex couples can be dear friends and can provide each other with sexual pleasure. But to claim that one must be in a pair with sexual activity demeans the many other intimate relationships in human interaction.

Fr Larry Richards’ and Fr James Martin’s books address the issue of celibacy and how Priests’ lives can be very full of close emotional ties with others without necessitating a sexual component. You might look for these books, they are very helpful for those who cannot imagine a life where you say no to the vocation of marriage does not mean saying no to all intimate relationships with other human beings.

Lisa

If you actually took the time to read my post you’d notice that I didn’t remotely hint suggest that a sexual relationship is required to have an intimate relationship.

I have had friends whom I have had intimate emotional relationships, I have also had intimate intellectual relationships, that is why I comment on friends starting to pair off and de facto excluding single people.

It was a societal observation based on Western society, especially the US (where I live); it is data, not theory.

 

[LisaA]

Based on your last paragraph, Lisa, you appear to be saying that when a gay person reverts to normal heterosexual behavior, they are a human being and not controlled by their genitalia. This suggests that when a straight person comes out as gay, they are not a human being but instead controlled only by their genitalia? My question is, why the distinction? Why aren’t both people considered to be human beings not controlled by their genitalia?

Sorry you misunderstood. In both cases they are human beings obviously. I didn’t intend otherwise but I understand your confusion. I differentiate the response by the gay activist cohort which seems to think if you “come out” as gay you are being who you really are. But if you have been in the gay lifestyle and then realize that this isn’t who you are and either engage in a heterosexual relationship or decide to be celibate that you must be a phony or delusional.

The ‘gay lifestyle’ means more than just having SSA, but rather someone who acts on this inclination, who embraces this lifestyle which often includes promiscuity, casual sex and other non-traditional (this is trying to be nice) activity. There have been several threads on the subject and the homosexualists and homosexual apologists speak against either the possibility one can change or that anyone can actually revert back to being heterosexual in orientation or decide no longer to act on the inclination. They abhor any sort of therapy designed to deprogram out of this world claiming it’s abuse, it’s torture, it’s cruel. I think that’s the kind of double standard that actually degrades their argument that SSA is genetic, the ‘born this way’ meme that is used as cover.

I think for whatever reason, those who have SSA who are very militant about this lifestyle ARE led by their genitalia. It certainly doesn’t make them any less human and I am sorry if I gave that impression.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Interesting that you can guarantee that.

I dated “lipstick lesbians.” But I knew many others. It was back when we all lived lives of debauchery. Many of them are nice little soccer moms now. They have no attraction to women. One who I dated I saw over Christmas at Mass with her husband and 2 children. She at one time was a very very militant lesbian. She did not identify as bi then or now. Now she is strait.

Sometimes it IS learned behavior. There is a reason why two girls who are friends can make out in a hot tub but two dudes? No way. Because it is acceptable in the culture.

I used to run with a pretty hard crew. And mostly gay. One of my relatives was gay and he was one of my best friends. And he lived a very very fast life. The parties were incredible. Like gatsby stuff. Boats, jet skis home theatres, corvettes. And everyone was there. A lot of horrible things happened. I hesitate typing this because really, it was shameful, satanic stuff that was glorified when it should not have been. I wish to God I could have converted earlier in my life.
But I know many many gay people and have had very in depth, candid and explicit talks with them. The media and the gay culture have an agenda and that agenda begins with cleaning up and making natural the things that go on. What the media wants you to see is a sassy gay friend who says “giiiiirrrl” or someone to help you dress nice, or someone who is funny, or two caring “parents” or two nice middle aged men holding hands in vermont while looking at antique shops. That is not reality. It is about sodomy, it is about debauchery, it is about denying holiness in exchange for “freedom” It is about broken lives and broken bodies. But the media and society are talking about “born this way”
Well, I was born with the inclination to like redheads and more than one readhead at that. My wife though is a brunette and I am monogamous. Somehow, I can change, but if I liked sodomy I couldn’t?

Thank you for your post. It is wonderful how you have changed.

I use to work in a hospital caring for those with AIDS. I saw some pretty sad stuff. Ailments and injuries that do not get talked about on tv or by gay activists. One person in particular had a sad story. He had gone to Las Vegas on a job and got involved in the wrong crowd. He had homosexual tendencies but always dated women and enjoyed that. Until Las Vegas he had not got involved in that lifestyle but then he met others who were actively living that way and encouraged him into that lifestyle. Telling him it was okay and he would be okay. He told of parties and other big events where much homosexual sex was going on. He said it left him empty and depressed but what really bothered him was after he was diagnosed with AIDS and didn’t have long to live. He wished he had never entered that lifestyle and all the goals he had for his life were gone. He would tell most everyone that walked in his door his story and warn them of what that life was like. He wished he had got help or got out. He died alone in the basement of his house. We never saw one person from the gay community come and visit him. No one visited any of the others though either. There are lots of sad stories I could tell. Much sadness, heartache and loneliness.

 

[meltzerboy]

Sorry you misunderstood. In both cases they are human beings obviously. I didn’t intend otherwise but I understand your confusion. I differentiate the response by the gay activist cohort which seems to think if you “come out” as gay you are being who you really are. But if you have been in the gay lifestyle and then realize that this isn’t who you are and either engage in a heterosexual relationship or decide to be celibate that you must be a phony or delusional.

The ‘gay lifestyle’ means more than just having SSA, but rather someone who acts on this inclination, who embraces this lifestyle which often includes promiscuity, casual sex and other non-traditional (this is trying to be nice) activity. There have been several threads on the subject and the homosexualists and homosexual apologists speak against either the possibility one can change or that anyone can actually revert back to being heterosexual in orientation or decide no longer to act on the inclination. They abhor any sort of therapy designed to deprogram out of this world claiming it’s abuse, it’s torture, it’s cruel. I think that’s the kind of double standard that actually degrades their argument that SSA is genetic, the ‘born this way’ meme that is used as cover.

I think for whatever reason, those who have SSA who are very militant about this lifestyle ARE led by their genitalia. It certainly doesn’t make them any less human and I am sorry if I gave that impression.

Would you say most gay people do or do not embrace the gay lifestyle? If most do, then that means, according to your definition, they are by and large promiscuous rather than seeking monogamous relationships. If most do not, then why is it called the gay lifestyle? I’m just trying to figure out what your view of being gay is. I know you abide by the Church’s teaching and consider gay relationships sinful even within a monogamous partnership but do you think the gay lifestyle is mainly promiscuous or do many gays have committed relationships, only a few relationships, or no relationships, based on what your gay friends tell you? And do you think lesbians are more committed to one another compared to male gays?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Sorry you misunderstood. In both cases they are human beings obviously. I didn’t intend otherwise but I understand your confusion. I differentiate the response by the gay activist cohort which seems to think if you “come out” as gay you are being who you really are. But if you have been in the gay lifestyle and then realize that this isn’t who you are and either engage in a heterosexual relationship or decide to be celibate that you must be a phony or delusional.

The ‘gay lifestyle’ means more than just having SSA, but rather someone who acts on this inclination, who embraces this lifestyle which often includes promiscuity, casual sex and other non-traditional (this is trying to be nice) activity. There have been several threads on the subject and the homosexualists and homosexual apologists speak against either the possibility one can change or that anyone can actually revert back to being heterosexual in orientation or decide no longer to act on the inclination. They abhor any sort of therapy designed to deprogram out of this world claiming it’s abuse, it’s torture, it’s cruel. I think that’s the kind of double standard that actually degrades their argument that SSA is genetic, the ‘born this way’ meme that is used as cover.

I think for whatever reason, those who have SSA who are very militant about this lifestyle ARE led by their genitalia. It certainly doesn’t make them any less human and I am sorry if I gave that impression.

The vast majority of gay men have sex lives just as boring as that of straight men.

According to OKCupid’s data (millions of members) it is

45% of gay people have had 5 or fewer partners (vs. 44% for straights)
98% of gay people have had 20 or fewer partners (vs. 99% for straights)

Note, OKCupid’s membership skews younger than the mainstream population (median 28 v. 37) by a lot however this is probably much more representative of gay people than some of the studies waved around here regarding gay promiscuity which were achieved by going to a spot known for gay men hooking up and then polling them (probably about as accurate a sample as going to a brothel to find out how often on average men frequent brothels).

If this hypersexual gay people thing was real, it isn’t real anymore.

Honestly the data for reparative therapy is lackluster at best as to making gay people straight.

What is a “homosexualist”? Wikipedia just redirects to gay. Also what is a “homosexual apologist”?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Define “vocation”

Sex is only one type of intimacy.

1. it is spelled “quip”,
2. it is not witty therefore it isn’t a quip,
3. it isn’t alliterative,
4. Gay people have a high rate of depression and suicide ≠ homosexuality causes depression and suicide
5. A large minority of sexually active gay people have never and do not ever intend to engage in anal sex
6. I’m not defending sodomy
7. Sodomy is immoral regardless of if it is two men, two women or a man and a woman.

If you actually took the time to read my post you’d notice that I didn’t remotely hint suggest that a sexual relationship is required to have an intimate relationship.

I have had friends whom I have had intimate emotional relationships, I have also had intimate intellectual relationships, that is why I comment on friends starting to pair off and de facto excluding single people.

It was a societal observation based on Western society, especially the US (where I live); it is data, not theory.

Thanks for the correction I learned a lot. I can see you are not interested in dialogue or treating others with respect. But still, this thread has been beneficial for others. I am glad I got to share and add to the conversation.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The vast majority of gay men have sex lives just as boring as that of straight men.

According to OKCupid’s data (millions of members) it is

Note, OKCupid’s membership skews younger than the mainstream population (median 28 v. 37) by a lot however this is probably much more representative of gay people than some of the studies waved around here regarding gay promiscuity which were achieved by going to a spot known for gay men hooking up and then polling them (probably about as accurate a sample as going to a brothel to find out how often on average men frequent brothels).

If this hypersexual gay people thing was real, it isn’t real anymore.

Honestly the data for reparative therapy is lackluster at best as to making gay people straight.

What is a “homosexualist”? Wikipedia just redirects to gay. Also what is a “homosexual apologist”?

Annnnd here come the study wars…

 

[LisaA]

Would you say most gay people do or do not embrace the gay lifestyle? If most do, then that means, according to your definition, they are by and large promiscuous rather than seeking monogamous relationships. If most do not, then why is it called the gay lifestyle? I’m just trying to figure out what your view of being gay is. I know you abide by the Church’s teaching and consider gay relationships sinful even within a monogamous partnership but do you think the gay lifestyle is mainly promiscuous or do many gays have committed relationships, only a few relationships, or no relationships, based on what your gay friends tell you? And do you think lesbians are more committed to one another compared to male gays?

The majority of people with SSA are just like those without this challenge; living, working, and minding their own business. They don’t self identify as gay, they don’t talk about their sex lives, they do not create issues or agitate. There are others whom I call homosexualists or activists and while I don’t know about their sex lives, they are militant about the concept of being able to “freely express” every facet of their sexuality, they self identify first by their sex lives, they believe those who doesn’t think male/male or female/female sexual relationships are equivalent to male/female marriages are bigots,H8Trs, or homophobes. As to those who live the gay lifestyle I limit that to those involved in a very libertine life, lots of “sex, drugs, & rock n roll.” To them I mostly feel sadness because it’s not a pretty picture, particularly for those who are no longer young and attractive. My earliest gay friend lost his partner to AIDS, a very successful business to crushing medical bills and those with whom he partied were no longer wanted to spend time with him once the money dried up. The last time I saw him, he was probably 60, looked about 75 and his last comment to me was “No one wants an old piece of ___” The glue that holds heterosexual marriages together, the faith, the culture, the family, does not exist at the same level in gay relationships. As with the previous story, many do not have seem to sustain those ties that bind for a lifetime.

While I think there probably is a lot of promiscuity among the young, many of the older gay males I knew and worked with were what I called serial monogamists although not strictly. They often had a “main” partner but that didn’t mean they didn’t have sexual relations with others. Go to a party with a lot of gay males meltzerboy. You see them disappear and return…it doesn’t take much imagination to know what was going on. I remember a long talk with a gay psychiatrist whose main partner was a pretty close friend at the time. He said “Stephen just doesn’t understand that love is love and sex is sex…” He claimed strict monogamy was almost unheard of in his (gay) clientele. He said sex is often just a physical thing you “need” for a moment but that doesn’t mean you set up housekeeping… He was unable to remain faithful to Stephen and they eventually parted. I know Stephen very much wanted a long term, committed monogamous relationship but last I heard he hadn’t found anyone similarly inclined. Stephen is in his 50s and as he said, we don’t have a long shelf life…

My completely uneducated in psychiatry conclusion is that SSA is very different in males than in females. I think it’s far more changeable in females. I know many experiment, even pair up with another female at certain stages in life but they seem to find it easier to “revert” or return to heterosexual relationships. And girls are girls meltzerboy, far more likely to remain faithful. They do not have the sexual nature of men. I think Lesbians are far more likely to be completely monogamous and will stay with a partner for a long time if not a lifetime. I didn’t see the same type of predatory behavior in the Lesbians. They might hit on you but did not engage in the kind of relentless pursuit we say with the males in the industry where I encountered a lot of gays/Lesbians. The males were like cutting horses, finding their prey, getting them away from the herd and working them…We’d see some fresh new face come into the industry and it was like watching sharks circling. Whether or not the young men were already gay (and maybe didn’t know?) or whether they were influenced and once involved in the excitement, the sex, the parties, it was hard to leave the lifestyle.

Maybe more than you wanted to know but that’s my response to your questions. I know I probably come off as being anti-gay but I’m more anti-activist when I feel that well established rights and traditions and historical and cultural norms are being upended…and in my mind for no good reason but for specious and selfish individual desires. It’s the same whether its gay activism, militant environmentalists, militant feminists, anything that attacks faith, family and our foundation…I want to “stand athwart history and scream NO!”

Lisa

 

[Coatimundi]

By the way…this is already happening in Canada as seen here from a Catholic Exchange article;

The incident involving Fr. Alphonse de Valk took place in 2008. Charges against hims were dropped one month later, on the grounds that his words did no harm.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

This thread is off topic. Please return to the topic of the original post. This thread is NOT for general discussions about homosexuality.

 

[meltzerboy]

The majority of people with SSA are just like those without this challenge; living, working, and minding their own business. They don’t self identify as gay, they don’t talk about their sex lives, they do not create issues or agitate. There are others whom I call homosexualists or activists and while I don’t know about their sex lives, they are militant about the concept of being able to “freely express” every facet of their sexuality, they self identify first by their sex lives, they believe those who doesn’t think male/male or female/female sexual relationships are equivalent to male/female marriages are bigots,H8Trs, or homophobes. As to those who live the gay lifestyle I limit that to those involved in a very libertine life, lots of “sex, drugs, & rock n roll.” To them I mostly feel sadness because it’s not a pretty picture, particularly for those who are no longer young and attractive. My earliest gay friend lost his partner to AIDS, a very successful business to crushing medical bills and those with whom he partied were no longer wanted to spend time with him once the money dried up. The last time I saw him, he was probably 60, looked about 75 and his last comment to me was “No one wants an old piece of ___” The glue that holds heterosexual marriages together, the faith, the culture, the family, does not exist at the same level in gay relationships. As with the previous story, many do not have seem to sustain those ties that bind for a lifetime.

While I think there probably is a lot of promiscuity among the young, many of the older gay males I knew and worked with were what I called serial monogamists although not strictly. They often had a “main” partner but that didn’t mean they didn’t have sexual relations with others. Go to a party with a lot of gay males meltzerboy. You see them disappear and return…it doesn’t take much imagination to know what was going on. I remember a long talk with a gay psychiatrist whose main partner was a pretty close friend at the time. He said “Stephen just doesn’t understand that love is love and sex is sex…” He claimed strict monogamy was almost unheard of in his (gay) clientele. He said sex is often just a physical thing you “need” for a moment but that doesn’t mean you set up housekeeping… He was unable to remain faithful to Stephen and they eventually parted. I know Stephen very much wanted a long term, committed monogamous relationship but last I heard he hadn’t found anyone similarly inclined. Stephen is in his 50s and as he said, we don’t have a long shelf life…

My completely uneducated in psychiatry conclusion is that SSA is very different in males than in females. I think it’s far more changeable in females. I know many experiment, even pair up with another female at certain stages in life but they seem to find it easier to “revert” or return to heterosexual relationships. And girls are girls meltzerboy, far more likely to remain faithful. They do not have the sexual nature of men. I think Lesbians are far more likely to be completely monogamous and will stay with a partner for a long time if not a lifetime. I didn’t see the same type of predatory behavior in the Lesbians. They might hit on you but did not engage in the kind of relentless pursuit we say with the males in the industry where I encountered a lot of gays/Lesbians. The males were like cutting horses, finding their prey, getting them away from the herd and working them…We’d see some fresh new face come into the industry and it was like watching sharks circling. Whether or not the young men were already gay (and maybe didn’t know?) or whether they were influenced and once involved in the excitement, the sex, the parties, it was hard to leave the lifestyle.

Maybe more than you wanted to know but that’s my response to your questions. I know I probably come off as being anti-gay but I’m more anti-activist when I feel that well established rights and traditions and historical and cultural norms are being upended…and in my mind for no good reason but for specious and selfish individual desires. It’s the same whether its gay activism, militant environmentalists, militant feminists, anything that attacks faith, family and our foundation…I want to “stand athwart history and scream NO!”

Lisa

Thank you, Lisa. I appreciate your candid and sincere views.

 

[Darryl1958]

Acording to the Catholic theology of the body and natural law regarding the divine purpose of sexuality, according to the Bible even, and the original oneness of all of mankind in the undifferentiated sexuality of the original Adam, of whom Eve was a part, men and woman, in terms of a shared sexuality, cannot be interchangeable.

The wisdom of the Church teaches that even at best, there will always be something missing from a sexual union that is within one sex rather than between them. Common sense, and the experience of ultimate fulfillment of our sexuality through our children echoes that theme.
Even at its very best, even in the most loving and committed sexual relationships between two members of the same sex, there will always be something missing, just in the very fact that children are not made.

That is no little thing.

More ephemerally, the spiritual, immeasurable aspect of two fleshes coming back together as one, in a reunion of mankind as God made us originally, strives for the perfect, and anything that in its very nature cannot arrive at that point, is therefore a defect. We are all imperfect to be sure, but the language of defect means that there is something lacking in the very nature of that kind of relationship.

The wisdom of the world is opposed to this understanding now, really, for the first time in human history. The wisdom of the world, in its most positive aspect, wants us to accommodate brokenness as something legitimate, something that we need to accept about ourselves and others, something that can even give defects a modicum of happiness, and allow even defects some dignity, in spite of their defect.

It would be rather cold-blooded of us as people trying to fit in as children of God to be so sure of our wisdom even when defects have the gun in their mouth. Our faith tells us that the road to perfection is all about restraint, even for defects. But that is our faith. When it comes to a choice of insisting on faith, or taking another road that has no assurances of spiritual fulfillment and redemption, I would want people to know that their dignity comes first, even if their choice is against the wisdom of God and the wisdom of the ages as it has become compiled in the Bible and our Judeo-Christian culture.
There comes a point where the best road is to tell everybody to get the gun out of their mouths, and take a chance with God’s mercy, even if that means taking a road that wisdom of the faith tells us leads to perdition.
Faith is above all about humility. It is about accepting a person’s choice to live a life that the faith warns against, with providing that person with all the love, and acceptance and dignity and respect that we actually feel for the individual person in question. It is about deciding to not let faith get in the way of love.
In the hierarchy of Christians virtues, faith, hope, and love, the greatest of these is love.

 

[Maso]

Some day… all male children will be required by law to be homosexualized by the social engineers who will eventually take the place of families in a socialist world and mean spirited phat wimmin like Hillery Clinton will dominate. Masculinity will be wiped out completely.

I don’t like it… I hate it but the fact of life is…

Well… let me put it this way. An analogy: If you put two fighters in a rink and one fights clean and the other fights dirty… who do you think is going to win…?

See what I mean…?

It will be… “as in the days of Noah” And that was before S&G.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Some day… all male children will be required by law to be homosexualized by the social engineers who will eventually take the place of families in a socialist world and mean spirited phat wimmin like Hillery Clinton will dominate. Masculinity will be wiped out completely.

I don’t like it… I hate it but the fact of life is…

Well… let me put it this way. An analogy: If you put two fighters in a rink and one fights clean and the other fights dirty… who do you think is going to win…?

See what I mean…?

It will be… “as in the days of Noah” And that was before S&G.

I must confess you actually had me going for a good thirty seconds. I’m pretty sure that impersonating an effectively Pelagian American Catholic is sinful especially when you are working to create an echo tunnel to make them descend further and further into madness. Jolly good, carry on.

 

[on_the_hill]

Some day… all male children will be required by law to be homosexualized by the social engineers who will eventually take the place of families in a socialist world and mean spirited phat wimmin like Hillery Clinton will dominate. Masculinity will be wiped out completely.

I don’t like it… I hate it but the fact of life is…

Well… let me put it this way. An analogy: If you put two fighters in a rink and one fights clean and the other fights dirty… who do you think is going to win…?

See what I mean…?

It will be… “as in the days of Noah” And that was before S&G.

Not to be argumentative, but phat is usually used as a compliment. Unless you meant to say that wimmin like Hillary are physically attractive. In which case, I withdraw my remark.

 

[shawnbm]

Brave words.

However, the politicized nature of this debate makes it difficult for us medical scientists to do much meaningful work in this area; the “normality” of homosexuality has been decided by political fiat, leaving little incentive for proper research into causes and (dare I hope?) cures.

The nail has been struck on the head with the above comment from the good doctor. I might add that the “normality” of non-celibate homosexuality has not only been decided by political fiat, but judicial fiat as well–all bowing to societal pressures from secularists.