Spanking Children Aggressively

[CatholicWife1]

I realize many Catholic parents use spanking to discipline their children, and Pope Francis has said that spanking children with love is good parenting. I don’t endorse not disciplining children at all, but this teaching is hard for me to understand though because growing up I was spanked aggressively for just about everything that my parents disapproved of. I would get hit in front of the family on my bare bottom up until puberty with a lot of force by my dad. I also got aggressively slapped in the face as a little girl (which left marks) and then as a teen, my mom took over physical discipline and would beat me sometimes ( would be on top of me punching/hitting me) and I couldn’t fight back because I didn’t want to hurt her. I did not have behavior issues as a child so to me, even the spanking seems abusive in retrospect. It was done to humiliate me and control me instead of teaching me right from wrong, but I have searched all over and cannot find any Catholic voice with this view. It seems as though the Church endorsed any type of spanking as long as it is done with “love”. Is this the case?
Does the church really allow me to do this to my own children? I find that hard to beleive!

 

[Lee1]

Does the church really allow me to do this to my own children?

Simply no.

I’m sorry you experienced that abuse when you were a child. That must have been hard for you to forgive and move on from. I hope you have healed really I do. God bless.

 

[Peeps]

Your parents didn’t spank with “love.” Far from it. I 'm so sorry for what you suffered as a child.

For at least 5 decades now, Dr. James Dobson, a clinical psychologist with over 30 years of experience working with children in a clinical setting (secular) has taught spanking as a discipline option for very specific situations, and with the parent acting not out of anger or frustration but out of love.

The specifics are these:

1. Spanking is NOT appropriate for children over 4-5 years of age. Never. Older children respond better to “loss of privileges for a specified time” rather than corporal punishment.
2. Spanking is only appropriate for WILLFUL DEFIANCE–e.g., a parent tells a child not to run into the street, and the child fully understands the command, but defies the parent and deliberately runs into the street. Willful defiance happens when a child, with full understanding and knowledge, DEFIES a parent’s rules or commands. Parents must respond swiftly with “painful” consequences for the child. This doesn’t necessarily mean physical pain or spanking, as some children do not respond to corporal punishment. But somehow, the parent MUST teach the child that they must obey authorities unless those authorities are asking them to do something sinful. This is the most important teaching a parent can impart to a child–if a child is not able to submit to an authority figure, they will not be able to submit to God. Also, a “painful” punishment (again, doesn’t have to be spanking or slapping) will prevent a child from suffering a greater pain e.g., getting run over by a car).
3. Spanking is NEVER, EVER appropriate for CHILDISH IRRESPONSIBILITY; e.g., a child spills his milk at the table because he turned around to see his dog, or e.g. child left his bike out on the driveway and it got run over by the family car. These actions are not done to defy a parent or challenge authority. They are done because the child is a child with little life experience and tends to be easily distracted and forget guidelines. The appropriate punishment is to help the child clean up whatever he has done, and to assure him that next time, he’ll remember. And buy him a new bike when you have the money.

(Parents need to always remember that they, too, do “childish” things like forget to bring their lunch to work or spill their soda because they were jumping up and down when the Bears got a touchdown!)

What your parents did was not within these guidelines. They were abusing you.

My mother came from an abusive family, and she could never bring herself to spank me or my brother. That is unusual, as many adults who were abused as children are at risk of abusing their children. So perhaps it is a good thing that you are wary of corporal punishment. It might be a good plan for you to abstain from spanking as a discipline method and utilize another method to train your child(ren) that authorities must be respected and in most cases, obeyed.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m not going to touch the actual spanking debate.

But I can say that any form of discipline can turn into abuse if taken out of bounds by the parent. I don’t have any stories of out-of-control hitting, but I do have a lot where it was just assumed I was being bad. So for example, if I said I didn’t understand something, I’d probably be told I was just being lazy and I’d better stop playing dumb. Then if I didn’t do it right I’d get a spanking for disobeying. There were other things too, like if I ever cried or acted upset when mom was angry at me, she’d decide that I was trying to manipulate her with crocodile tears and I’d get a spanking (given that she tended to provoke me to tears, that happened a lot).

Discipline, of any form, needs to be aimed at the betterment of the child and in proportion to the child’s actual abilities. It’s far too easy for many parents to use “discipline” as an excuse to take out their own anger on their child. It sounds like what you experienced was not done for your benefit, but for the purpose of hurting you because your parents didn’t like what was going on.

 

[CatholicWife1]

Thank you for your replies. It’s hard to think of things outside of the context I experienced them, but I do understand now what was going on in my own childhood. I thank God that I have realized that I was abused because I don’t want to do that to my own (future) kids (since I haven’t been blessed with any yet).
Also, there are some great replies here so far and have given me insight into what is appropriate since I was never taught that growing up. Thank you all so much and God bless!

 

[exnihilo]

The Church has wonderful advice for all areas of life. The Church has been around for two thousand years. Psychology as a specific discipline is very modern and is more than happy to adopt unproven theories of how to live.

Most importantly the Church has a consistent philosophy that undergirds everything. So the Church would encourage disciplining children but doing so with love for the child. Psychology has no such foundation and thus flaps in the breeze of fads.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I am so sorry to hear of your childhood. The extent of your discipline was out of the ordinary. Do you have a health care professional you can discuss this with?

 

[KCmedtech]

Personally, I think a great majority of parents who use corporal punishment cannot separate serious feelings of frustration or anger…which is not productive when physically reprimanding a child. It only adds fuel to the fire.

OP, you have experienced quite a lot of trauma as a child…which may result in continued trauma and flashbacks if you use corporal punishment on your own children. Something to think about.

The Church does not dictate how we should punish/discipline our children…period.

 

[KCmedtech]

I think most people who have relied and benefitted from psychologists to treat a number of mental and behavioral issues would 100% disagree with you on your opinion.

Including my husband…who has suffered from PTSD thanks to years of military service and my father who suffers from ADD and dementia.

 

[QwertyGirl]

So the Church would encourage disciplining children but doing so with love for the child

The problem is that everybody has a different idea of what love for a child is. Psychologist and people in the field of psychology can lend their expertise in letting others know what the fallout is from certain kinds of discipline. They have studied evidence and the data.

 

[1ke]

I would suggest not really looking to the Church for advice on how to effectively discipline children. It doesn’t have expertise in this area. C

Our diocesan family life office has an excellent parenting program. You cannot say something so blanket as this. There are many professionals in the Church who have psychology credentials.

I don’t know what the Pope said, so I can’t really comment on it. But I am sure it wasn’t with the example the OP shared in mind.

 

[1ke]

I would get hit in front of the family on my bare bottom up until puberty with a lot of force by my dad. I also got aggressively slapped in the face as a little girl (which left marks) and then as a teen, my mom took over physical discipline and would beat me sometimes ( would be on top of me punching/hitting me) and I couldn’t fight back because I didn’t want to hurt her.

That wasn’t spanking. That was abuse.

 

[QwertyGirl]

People in the Church with true credentials to be offering advice in this realm are wonderful. Good for them for using their skills in helping others.

I am concerned about the concept I see here sometimes, that as long as you discipline your child in love then however you choose to do so is fine. Love is great, but it doesn’t automatically make one a great disciplinarian. That really is all I was trying to say. There is evidence, and data, and all sorts of other resources available to help a parent decide how to best raise a disciplined child. Whacking a kid because that was “what my parents did” and then claiming it to be an act of love is what has lead to some bad things.

Please note: I don’t think OP is abusive. Sounds like he/she is on the right track in trying to sort all of this out. Without professional help, many people never even realize they were abused as kids even if the abuse was severe.

 

[CatholicWife1]

It was. And my mother even told me as a child not to tell anyone because CPS would take me away. Now they’re still abusive but are the pillar of the community at their church and they have told everyone I am mentally ill since I cut them out of my life. Best of all, my grandmother who is in her 90s has defended my parents.

Ive taken steps to separate myself from my family of origin to protect my husband and I and whatever future children we will have. Its a sad situation but I count my blessings given that much worse could have happened. God is good through it all.

 

[exnihilo]

I think most people who have relied and benefitted from psychologists to treat a number of mental and behavioral issues would 100% disagree with you on your opinion.

I didn’t say that they offered nothing. And of course if people benefited then they would think it useful. The people who haven’t benefited would have a different opinion.

Psychologist and people in the field of psychology can lend their expertise in letting others know what the fallout is from certain kinds of discipline. They have studied evidence and the data.

People aren’t machines where if you put in something you get something out. Psychology isn’t a science and even many psychologists would agree with that. That doesn’t mean that a psychologist can’t offer help. But it isn’t like you can put forth psychology as some clear scientific discipline that offers something the Church can’t.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Church professionals, especially in the face of the child abuse history, are informed by child health professionals. And these child health professionals are also employed by Diocese.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Do you have the help of health care professionals

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It seems as though the Church endorsed any type of spanking as long as it is done with “love”. Is this the case?

No, the Church does not endorse child abuse. What you are describing (beating on bare bottom in front of the family, getting hit in the face in a way that left marks, being punched or hit by a parent) is not “spanking”, it is abuse. I’m sorry you experienced it.

I agree that any form of discipline can be abusive depending on many factors like the age of the child, the frequency of the discipline, the attitude of the parent, the offense that the child is being punished for, etc. My own parents were good parents generally, but occasionally in anger and frustration they overreacted and the discipline became more about the parent’s mood/ anger/ frustration than trying to improve the behavior of the child. It doesn’t necessarily have to be hitting, it could be something like yelling or even the silent treatment.

The Church doesn’t really take an official stand spelling out exactly what punishment a parent can give his or her child at what age and for what offense. They leave it up to the parent to figure out how to be a good, loving parent to a particular child, and if necessary read the appropriate parenting books or discuss with others to learn this. There are many areas of life where the Church only provides very broad guidelines and leaves the rest up to us. If we keep Jesus in our mind, it shouldn’t be too hard. Can you picture Jesus punching and hitting a kid? Of course not.

 

[F_Marturana]

I agree.

In retrospect, in my own childhood my mom’s punishments were often due to her frustration than what I did wrong.

I remember once my dad was injured at work,and she was caring for him. I overheard her complaining to my aunt that I was being very poorly behaved. I didn’t know what it was that I was doing wrong.

Many people are impatient with children. Those shouldn’t spank.

 

[F_Marturana]

I’m sorry you’ve been through this.

It’s hard.

My mom was abused as a child. She has Alzheimer’s now. Fear of her parents is one thing she seems to remember. She had to go to the hospital due to a fall. She told me her mother had beaten her.