Speaking against Islam

[vstar]

Emmy: Having read your long winded explanation about why you are now a Muslim in spite of your Catholic background, I would ask you: WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? If you don’t have one why do you spend so much time on this site trying ('cause you haven’t convinced me as well as many others) to justify your decisions? You are either some kind of Muslim being mischievous (pretty benign compared to some of your fellow travellers) or simply guilt-ridden. Perhaps you should just go away. And pray.

 

[vstar]

Check this site Emmily(of Texas). In fact everyone should.
Waiting for your reply Emmily. Your comparison of women;s rights in the Islamic world and the West was really shallow, deceiving and disingenuous. What is your agenda?

spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=5273&issue=2004-11-20

 

[Ella]

vstar, since we cannot read that article without registering, perhaps you could paraphrase it, or copy and paste it with proper acknowledgement of the source?

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

…My very religious Catholic brother who has great faith had a 30,000 gambling debt before he went bankcrupt, has drank tons of alcohol over the years with his friends at get-togethers, and has had sexual activity outside of marraige. I saw this all the time in colleg too among the so called religious Christians. I know this is not Catholicism, it is only the faults of the individuals, so I am not bashing the religion,…just commenting on your comment about the “ways” of Muslims

Emily

Is the “way of the Muslim” also to be boastful and feel spiritual, intellectual, moral, ethical superioriority? Are you insane to refer to your brother as a very religious man? NO “very religious” Catholic person would be in such a predicament or do such things. He apparently abandoned his faith long ago which is evidenced by his actions. I can say the very same thing for Muslim men I know in my medical profession who are both moderate and fervant Muslims. In fact, one Muslim surgeon I know sleeps with many women …and he always brings his prayer blanket to their homes so he won’t miss his prayers! Emmy, it is time you get off your high horse!!

Kidder

 

[emmy_from_texas]

kidderdoc:

Is the “way of the Muslim” also to be boastful and feel spiritual, intellectual, moral, ethical superioriority? Are you insane to refer to your brother as a very religious man? …In fact, one Muslim surgeon I know sleeps with many women …and he always brings his prayer blanket to their homes so he won’t miss his prayers! Emmy, it is time you get off your high horse!!

Kidder

Kidder,
You and one other seem to be very sure in your understanding of my points, yet you get it all wrong. I am not going to keep defending myself with you, because you will always twist what I say and accuse me of something. The ONLY reason why I gave my brother as an example is BECAUSE I was responding to someones post about the bad ways of Muslims, as if he was supporting an argument against Islam because of those ways. The point is that my brother is a Catholic, but I would not base Christianity on his bad ways because I know it does not work like that. You cannot judge a religion by the shortcomings and mistakes of the people. How can you not understand my point? I am sick of you and Yaqubos telling me that I think I am all righteous. It is not my fault you are incapable of comprehending my points, because from other posts and private messages, even if they do not agree with me, they ateast comprehend me.

 

[emmy_from_texas]

vstar:

Check this site Emmily(of Texas). In fact everyone should.
Waiting for your reply Emmily. Your comparison of women;s rights in the Islamic world and the West was really shallow, deceiving and disingenuous. What is your agenda?

spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=5273&issue=2004-11-20

My agenda? Trying to explain to others about some issues who are not looking at things objectivley is deceiving and shallow?

You posted a link by a non-Muslim, which is really what the big problem is leading to the misunderstanding of Islam. Someone who SINCERELY wanted to know the Islamic perspective and cared to get accurate education would atleast seek knowledge from those that actually practice it and truly KNOW it.

vstar:

Emmy: Having read your long winded explanation about why you are now a Muslim in spite of your Catholic background, I would ask you: WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? If you don’t have one why do you spend so much time on this site trying ('cause you haven’t convinced me as well as many others) to justify your decisions? You are either some kind of Muslim being mischievous (pretty benign compared to some of your fellow travellers) or simply guilt-ridden. Perhaps you should just go away. And pray.

What are you so afraid of?

I posted one response when I came by this forum by accident, and I was asked by so many members to tell them what happened to me, so after hesitation, I told the story, with many details to answer many of the questions I was asked. You and a few others do not welcome me, but you among the least courteous, setting a very bad example of a Christian. Others however, have welcomed me and told me that there is alot to learn from me and they are glad I am here.

Since I saw that there was so much lack of knowledge, I naively thought that good Christians would be interested in hearing about the Muslim beliefs from a Muslim herself instead of how you all usually hear about Islam. Do you really think that I expected to convert anyone in a Catholic Forum? I ask you, What is YOUR problem??

Before I came here, I admired Christians because I have always known them to be kind, respectful, and patient. My experiences have always been good. You and some others in this forum have left me with ill feelings and disappointment, and I will go away realizing how naive I was. My first time to be a member in a forum, was a very bad experience, and it happened to be among Christians.

 

[emmy_from_texas]

Voice_Of_Reason:

Exporter, they’re too busy either

1. Cutting other people’s heads off that don’t belong to their lifestyle
2. Cutting the heads of dissenters within their ‘community’

Are you an adult? This is a post of a child, dominated by distasteful emotion based on intolerance and a lack of knowledge about the religion of Islam. If you want to center your entire judgement of a religion and Muslims by a one-sided story you see on TV, then so be it. You have no idea between the difference of culture and Islam, the difference between the acts of a Muslim and Islam, or the differences between the desperations of war and Islam. The sad thing is, you don’t care to admit you don’t know, but are happy hating Muslims and attacking them.

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

Kidder,
The point is that my brother is a Catholic, but I would not base Christianity on his bad ways because I know it does not work like that. You cannot judge a religion by the shortcomings and mistakes of the people. How can you not understand my point? I am sick of you and Yaqubos telling me that I think I am all righteous. It is not my fault you are incapable of comprehending my points, because from other posts and private messages, even if they do not agree with me, they ateast comprehend me.

Not capable of understanding your points? Let me recopy what you said…above you claim your brother is “catholic” …but in your last post you categorize him as “my very religious Catholic brother” which is vastly different, especially when you are displaying his very sinful lifestyle as a “very religious Catholic” man. Maybe I do not comprehend you because you get caught in your own words!

Kidder

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

Are you an adult? This is a post of a child, dominated by distasteful emotion based on intolerance and a lack of knowledge about the religion of Islam. If you want to center your entire judgement of a religion and Muslims by a one-sided story you see on TV, then so be it. You have no idea between the difference of culture and Islam, the difference between the acts of a Muslim and Islam, or the differences between the desperations of war and Islam. The sad thing is, you don’t care to admit you don’t know, but are happy hating Muslims and attacking them.

The sad thing is that half of the Muslim world cheers these things on and the other half just remains silent about them.

Kidder

 

[emmy_from_texas]

Franze:

The women in islam is getting better for the quran or for the Western,Emmy? for example the dicatorship in Tunis, is the unique country with Turkey that the poligamy isn´t allowed and the Quran and the Hadiths allowed for having rich man in islam

Greetings

Franze,
cc. TWF

Thank you for your graciousness. I have posted a long answer to the controversial issue of polygamy on the thread “Muslims” to give everyone the Islamic perspective. I have found that there were more arguments about it over there, so I decided to post my answer there. Thanks,
Emily

 

[emmy_from_texas]

FightingFat:

I have quite a few Muslim friends for whom I thank God. I much prefer talking to them about God than other Christians as they are much more open minded and less acerbic in their criticism.

I have found great joy in talking to them about my faith and listening to the stories of their faith. It has created an environment in which I have been able to demonstrate my understanding of Islam and dispell many myths they have held about Christianity, many of which I found incredible; far fetched and in some instances, quite amusing. Our mutual respect has grown a great deal.

I am honest about my belief but would consider it rude and conceited to tell them they are wrong or sinning. Better a mutual exchange of wisdom. We are each on a journey, the truth has to be accepted as well as heard. I do better service to my faith by being a friend to my Muslim brothers and someone about whom they say-

‘I have a Christian friend and he’s a really nice guy’.

I wish that there were more like you, really. You are confident enough in your faith to say these things because you have a good heart and are not bothered by complimenting another faith. This is a rare thing in this forum. I just wanted to say thanks because it puts a bright light in all the darkness of the two threads I have been a part of.

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

Before I came here, I admired Christians because I have always known them to be kind, respectful, and patient. My experiences have always been good. You and some others in this forum have left me with ill feelings and disappointment, and I will go away realizing how naive I was. My first time to be a member in a forum, was a very bad experience, and it happened to be among Christians.

Emmy, perhaps you have also led many away from your faith by your poor examples. You cannot even get your family to abide your preachings.

There are many good behaviors of modesty that Islam teaches, but Christianity teaches it as well. Those good things are well offset by the very poor things by the Islamofascists highjacking the religion that is permitted in the name of Allah! I could have respect if good Muslims everywhere stood up and shouted against such atrocities, but you know that will never happen.

Kidder

 

[emmy_from_texas]

Okay, now that I have answered to the ones I wanted to answer to, I am going to leave this thread. I will let you all teach each other about Islam, and make it to be something that it isn’t. I apologize to those that did not welcome me here, because I am in your territory. I thank those that showed me compassion. I also ask those who are sincerely interested in learning about the REAL Islam for your own education to go to the following websites for information, because any non-Islamic website that speaks of Islam almost always spreads falsehood and creates misunderstandings:

www.sultan.com
www.islamway.com
www.al-islam.com
www.islamonline.net

 

[emmy_from_texas]

kidderdoc:

Emmy, perhaps you have also led many away from your faith by your poor examples. You cannot even get your family to abide your preachings.

There are many good behaviors of modesty that Islam teaches, but Christianity teaches it as well. Those good things are well offset by the very poor things by the Islamofascists highjacking the religion that is permitted in the name of Allah! I could have respect if good Muslims everywhere stood up and shouted against such atrocities, but you know that will never happen.

Kidder

Oh, how sweet. We are on the same thread at the same time.

Thanks for your last bit there. You have no right to insult my preachings like you did, as if you know me. I have been trying to limit my responses to only that which is asked of me, and even then, limit those to things that are time-manageable. Discussing religion is an enjoyment of mine, but I know that I am in a Catholic forum and spending time preaching here is ridiculous. Since I am not doing it doesn’t mean that I cannot support my faith. My parents went from hating Islam and everything about it, to completely accepting it as a beautiful religion and accepting me and my Muslim husband. This took hours of discussion, but even as stubborn as they once were, they admit to me now that if it was not for our difference in the way we think of Jesus, they would be Muslim, because everything else in Islam makes sense. You don’t see it, because you would never read about it objectively from objective sources, and because you do not want to hear that there could actually be wisdom behind the teachings. You do not want to understand any of it, and that is fine with me.

Good night

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

Oh, how sweet. We are on the same thread at the same time.

Thanks for your last bit there. You have no right to insult my preachings like you did, as if you know me. I have been trying to limit my responses to only that which is asked of me, and even then, limit those to things that are time-manageable. Discussing religion is an enjoyment of mine, but I know that I am in a Catholic forum and spending time preaching here is ridiculous. Since I am not doing it doesn’t mean that I cannot support my faith. My parents went from hating Islam and everything about it, to completely accepting it as a beautiful religion and accepting me and my Muslim husband. This took hours of discussion, but even as stubborn as they once were, they admit to me now that if it was not for our difference in the way we think of Jesus, they would be Muslim, because everything else in Islam makes sense. You don’t see it, because you would never read about it objectively from objective sources, and because you do not want to hear that there could actually be wisdom behind the teachings. You do not want to understand any of it, and that is fine with me.

Good night

Do you parents accept the beauty of Islam declaring they are going to hell?

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

Oh, how sweet. We are on the same thread at the same time.

Thanks for your last bit there. You have no right to insult my preachings like you did, as if you know me. I have been trying to limit my responses to only that which is asked of me, and even then, limit those to things that are time-manageable. Discussing religion is an enjoyment of mine, but I know that I am in a Catholic forum and spending time preaching here is ridiculous. Since I am not doing it doesn’t mean that I cannot support my faith. My parents went from hating Islam and everything about it, to completely accepting it as a beautiful religion and accepting me and my Muslim husband. This took hours of discussion, but even as stubborn as they once were, they admit to me now that if it was not for our difference in the way we think of Jesus, they would be Muslim, because everything else in Islam makes sense. You don’t see it, because you would never read about it objectively from objective sources, and because you do not want to hear that there could actually be wisdom behind the teachings. You do not want to understand any of it, and that is fine with me.

Good night

You are not stubborn? Don’t you see where you get it from? LOL

 

[kidderdoc]

emmy from texas:

Oh, how sweet. We are on the same thread at the same time.

Thanks for your last bit there. You have no right to insult my preachings like you did, as if you know me. I have been trying to limit my responses to only that which is asked of me, and even then, limit those to things that are time-manageable. Discussing religion is an enjoyment of mine, but I know that I am in a Catholic forum and spending time preaching here is ridiculous. Since I am not doing it doesn’t mean that I cannot support my faith. My parents went from hating Islam and everything about it, to completely accepting it as a beautiful religion and accepting me and my Muslim husband. This took hours of discussion, but even as stubborn as they once were, they admit to me now that if it was not for our difference in the way we think of Jesus, they would be Muslim, because everything else in Islam makes sense. **You don’t see it, because you would never read about it objectively from objective sources, and because you do not want to hear that there could actually be wisdom behind the teachings. You do not want to understand any of it, and that is fine with me. **

Good night

Sadly …You never learned the Catholic Faith …and THAT IS FACT! :yup:

 

[FightingFat]

Voice_Of_Reason:

Exporter, they’re too busy either

1. Cutting other people’s heads off that don’t belong to their lifestyle
2. Cutting the heads of dissenters within their ‘community’

This is like saying that the Great White Dragon of the KKK speaks for all of Christianity!

Has anyone read Hans Kung’s writings on ecumenism and Catholic-Islamic relations?
emmy from texas:

I wish that there were more like you, really. You are confident enough in your faith to say these things because you have a good heart and are not bothered by complimenting another faith. This is a rare thing in this forum. I just wanted to say thanks because it puts a bright light in all the darkness of the two threads I have been a part of.

Thanks emmy. It’s much nicer to be friends and a shame not many here get that we need to move on in a spirit of mutual love and respect, not fear, suspicion and hatred. Lack of understanding brings that fear.

God bless you!

 

[FightingFat]

Now for kidderdoc and anyone else feeling anti-Islam, listen up! This is your Church speaking-

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

COULD THIS BE ANY CLEARER???

 

[kidderdoc]

FightingFat:

Now for kidderdoc and anyone else feeling anti-Islam, listen up! This is your Church speaking-

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
COULD THIS BE ANY CLEARER???

You cannot seem to see the distinction between being anti muslim, which I am not, and being anti-emmy-remarks, which I am, for she is often shown her illogical thinking and retorts with…you are just anti islam! good grief…you BOTH seem to have a serious problem. The catechism is quick clear…

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

[842](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/842.htm’) The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

[843](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/843.htm’) The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332