Speaking in tongues during Mass

[april32010]

It is not charitable but could also be prideful to break into tongues or any other loud and distracting behavior during a parish Mass. The priest should deal with this for the respectful and peaceful worship of others in the congregation.

:clapping:thank you.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Now that’s just uncharitable lol

 

[po18guy]

This is one of the most divisive aspects in all of Catholicism. Yet, both the TLM and the charismatic forms of mass are genuine and equally legitimate forms of celebrating the sacrifice. Point: I cannot understand the Latin mass if no one interprets - yet the exact same thing is occurring which occurs at any other form of mass. Another point: I have never spoken so much as a single syllable in a tongue. That is not my charism.

Yet, it is clear that, if the charism of tongues is manifested, someone should interpret, as all charisms are intended to be used for the building up of the Church, not merely of individuals. At a certain point in their faith life, or spiritual development, the charism of tongues may be entirely appropriate for an individual, as each of us travels a different physical and spiritual path to God. Yet, our charisms, like our sexuality, must be properly ordered to time and place.

I do think that, out of concern for unity and the spirituality of others, the expression of any charism should first occur with respect for the spirituality of others, as well as the solemnity of the mass. It is expected at a charismatic mass, as that is the form of spirituality that is being practiced. Yet, at other times, it can certainly be distracting, as is hand-holding, or an inane, happy-clappy “communion song.”

This is one area in which the Priest should specify, although many may be hesitant to do so. If one had the charism of levitation, would that be properly exercised during mass? Certainly not, as it creates a spectacle, and we have the miraculous spectacle of the epiclesis and consecration occurring in our midst. Is that not enough?

Far more important, in my eyes, is that each of us comes to know what our charism is. At our baptism and confirmation, each of us received at least one charism, to be used for the building up of the Church. Read the parable of the talents in Matthew 25:14-30. At the end, we will be held accountable for what we did for the Master’s sake with the talents (charisms) with which we have been entrusted. When He returns from His journey, we do not want to offer our talent back to Him with no increase.

 

[odhiambo]

This is one of the most divisive aspects in all of Catholicism. Yet, both the TLM and the charismatic forms of mass are genuine and equally legitimate forms of celebrating the sacrifice. Point: I cannot understand the Latin mass if no one interprets - yet the exact same thing is occurring which occurs at any other form of mass. Another point: I have never spoken so much as a single syllable in a tongue. That is not my charism.

Yet, it is clear that, if the charism of tongues is manifested, someone should interpret, as all charisms are intended to be used for the building up of the Church, not merely of individuals. At a certain point in their faith life, or spiritual development, the charism of tongues may be entirely appropriate for an individual, as each of us travels a different physical and spiritual path to God. Yet, our charisms, like our sexuality, must be properly ordered to time and place.

I do think that, out of concern for unity and the spirituality of others, the expression of any charism should first occur with respect for the spirituality of others, as well as the solemnity of the mass. It is expected at a charismatic mass, as that is the form of spirituality that is being practiced. Yet, at other times, it can certainly be distracting, as is hand-holding, or an inane, happy-clappy “communion song.”

This is one area in which the Priest should specify, although many may be hesitant to do so. If one had the charism of levitation, would that be properly exercised during mass? Certainly not, as it creates a spectacle, and we have the miraculous spectacle of the epiclesis and consecration occurring in our midst. Is that not enough?

Far more important, in my eyes, is that each of us comes to know what our charism is. At our baptism and confirmation, each of us received at least one charism, to be used for the building up of the Church. Read the parable of the talents in Matthew 25:14-30. At the end, we will be held accountable for what we did for the Master’s sake with the talents (charisms) with which we have been entrusted. When He returns from His journey, we do not want to offer our talent back to Him with no increase.

Food for thought!

 

[pnewton]

Now, I will engage in a contraditory uncharitable attempt at charity regarding my factual opinion.

I have been in the charismatic movement (independent). I know some people fake it. I know that regardless of how much it is denied, some will still view it as a sign of real spirituality. I personally can not stand it, possibly because of my emotional experience with judgmentalism.

That being said, even if it was all forced (and I have no idea if it is or isn’t), even it was all just a psychological self-hypnosis, I have seen it be spiritually beneficial. Furthermore, the Catholic Church approves of this movement and that should end any discussion as to whether it is appropriate. If the Church is open to the possibility that this gift may be real in some, and it allowed, then more power to the Charismatic Catholics. Pardon me if I attend elsewhere though.

Charismatic, Traditional Latin, LifeTeen or mainstream, none of this matters. It is the Catholic part that still makes us one and we have no business judging others. On the other hand, the type of spirituality that we engage in will not help us in the judgment. God grades on results you might say. How have we treated the least among us, like Charismatics? Dokay, that was a joke. The least are the poor, hungry, etc.) More to this point, how do we treat our own family? The Charismatics we do not understand? Those Traditionalist who are…er… traditional? The LifeTeen who all need to turn down that dern music?

The Church teaches tolerances and understanding of all, or at least tolerance where understanding is elusive.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Now, I will engage in a contraditory uncharitable attempt at charity regarding my factual opinion.

I have been in the charismatic movement (independent). I know some people fake it. I know that regardless of how much it is denied, some will still view it as a sign of real spirituality. I personally can not stand it, possibly because of my emotional experience with judgmentalism.

That being said, even if it was all forced (and I have no idea if it is or isn’t), even it was all just a psychological self-hypnosis, I have seen it be spiritually beneficial. Furthermore, the Catholic Church approves of this movement and that should end any discussion as to whether it is appropriate. If the Church is open to the possibility that this gift may be real in some, and it allowed, then more power to the Charismatic Catholics. Pardon me if I attend elsewhere though.

Charismatic, Traditional Latin, LifeTeen or mainstream, none of this matters. It is the Catholic part that still makes us one and we have no business judging others. On the other hand, the type of spirituality that we engage in will not help us in the judgment. God grades on results you might say. How have we treated the least among us, like Charismatics? Dokay, that was a joke. The least are the poor, hungry, etc.) More to this point, how do we treat our own family? The Charismatics we do not understand? Those Traditionalist who are…er… traditional? The LifeTeen who all need to turn down that dern music?

The Church teaches tolerances and understanding of all, or at least tolerance where understanding is elusive.

Awesome!

 

[Ohana]

Awesome!

Squared!!!

 

[gh4]

**There have been a couple of questions regarding this topic, I wish to add to the questions.

I have been at Mass where people speak in tongues during the Consecration and elevation of the Precious Body and Precious Blood.

This always has distracted me from the moment.

My question is this…the Holy Spirit would never confuse people - so why would the Holy Spirit give this particular gift at this high point of ANY Mass?**

If this happened in our church, I would get up and leave because mass would be ruined for me and I would be angry and not able to receive and therefore easier to leave than to sit in the pew with a face of anger.

I personally don’t believe in this tongue speaking stuff but even if I did, there is a time and a place and in the middle of a regular mass is neither the time nor the place. And if my Priest didn’t put a stop to it, I would find a different mass to attend.

Anytime someone takes the attention away from the mass and focuses it upon themselves, well, that’s just wrong in my book.

 

[po18guy]

Now, I will engage in a contraditory uncharitable attempt at charity regarding my factual opinion.

I have been in the charismatic movement (independent). I know some people fake it. I know that regardless of how much it is denied, some will still view it as a sign of real spirituality. I personally can not stand it, possibly because of my emotional experience with judgmentalism.

That being said, even if it was all forced (and I have no idea if it is or isn’t), even it was all just a psychological self-hypnosis, I have seen it be spiritually beneficial. Furthermore, the Catholic Church approves of this movement and that should end any discussion as to whether it is appropriate. If the Church is open to the possibility that this gift may be real in some, and it allowed, then more power to the Charismatic Catholics. Pardon me if I attend elsewhere though.

Charismatic, Traditional Latin, LifeTeen or mainstream, none of this matters. It is the Catholic part that still makes us one and we have no business judging others. On the other hand, the type of spirituality that we engage in will not help us in the judgment. God grades on results you might say. How have we treated the least among us, like Charismatics? Dokay, that was a joke. The least are the poor, hungry, etc.) More to this point, how do we treat our own family? The Charismatics we do not understand? Those Traditionalist who are…er… traditional? The LifeTeen who all need to turn down that dern music?

The Church teaches tolerances and understanding of all, or at least tolerance where understanding is elusive.

Very well said. The Church has spoken. We are not a Church of cessationism, which believes that manifestations of the spirit are confined to the pages of scripture. Yet, the Church requires that all charisms be tested (1 John 4:1-3), as they are spiritual in nature and can be from above or below.

I wonder if those who condemn speaking in tongues have ever uttered a prayer for those who indeed do have emotional or mental problems and who are faking a charism?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Now that’s just uncharitable lol

Anyone who wears a colander on his head cannot possibly be uncharitable.



Good photo, Alan! Somehow you look just about exactly how I pictured you from you writing…at least, I hope that’s you!

 

[InLight247]

Speaking in tongue could be controlled by the person who has the gift. There is a proper time and place to use the gift. It should not be used during Mass. A Charismatic prayer session or while being alone are appropriate occasions.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Anyone who wears a colander on his head cannot possibly be uncharitable.



Good photo, Alan! Somehow you look just about exactly how I pictured you from you writing…at least, I hope that’s you!

Thanks. It was I, in 2005. I was on some CAF thread that involved being a “noid” and I believe I was advised to wear my protective equipment.

My oldest daughter decided to get protection too, so she picked up her gear:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Now she’s a chemical engineer, making the IV bags full of medicine that you get in the hospital.

That was before there even was a “water cooler” section.

Alan

 

[davy050995]

Here a few interesting catechism references regarding charisms and tongues:

2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” "benefit."53 Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.54

Charisms

799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.253

801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. "Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,"254 so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together "for the common good."255

 

[gh4]

And how is it proven that someone isn’t just simply babbling for attention?

 

[pnewton]

And how is it proven that someone isn’t just simply babbling for attention?

Charity would preclude this understanding without reason and in absence of evidence. We are always to assume the best in our fellow Christians without reason to the contrary.

 

[po18guy]

Charity would preclude this understanding without reason and in absence of evidence. We are always to assume the best in our fellow Christians without reason to the contrary.

Quite right. If someone has one of the more noisy charisms, it does not reflect one bit on the goodness or importance of our own charism, which might be silent. It is far more important to discern what our own charisms are, and to put them to use for the sake of God’s Kingdom. Matthew 25:14-30 is very instructive here.

 

[Sirach2]

And how is it proven that someone isn’t just simply babbling for attention?

Well, if that is their true intention, it is a pretty sick reality, yes? To use the words of our Savior, “Amen, they have received their reward.” (i.e., the gloating of having the attention of others) However, their spirit will be void without a shred of grace behind the act of gaining attention.

OTOH, if the prayer is true, and God hears it, no man may judge without incurring God’s displeasure for being so audacious. We are taught to MYOB and have no authority from God whatsoever to pass judgment on another person’s spiritual life, unless we are their spiritual director.