Speaking in tongues: genuine charism or silly gibberish?

[jcrichton]

The Bible clearly teaches that tongues are one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.1Cor.14. (Acts.10:44, 19:6,) it also teaches not all speak in tongues. Acts 2:41, Acts 4:4
Being slain in the Spirit is not! The Bible doesn’t mention this, or holy laughter or jumping around in a frenzied manner. A Spirit filled person always has control of their emotions. Thank God for that. it’s the Holy Spirit that gives this gift as he dertermines. See 1Cor.12:11)
We all know the Holy Spirit is God. Acts5:3-4

God bless you,
jean8

Hi, jean!

Being slain in the Spirit is a modern term (I believe); it is usually used in the various non-Catholic circles… the idea is that that Holy Spirit fully takes charge of a person (I witnessed people jumping and dancing, and raising their arms and running up and down aisles… then there are those making sounds (purported to be speaking in tongues) which can be genuine…) Personally, I think that the power of suggestion is as much behind the whole scene as the actual Gift of the Holy Spirit… remember how Jimmy Stewart (televangelist) could turn the emotions on and off as he preached?

The human mind is a fantastic machine… remember that ole “you’re only as old as you think you are?” …a culture of way past old ladies decided to be as unscrupulous as the worst teenagers around them… and the people suffering from bulimia and anorexia… they’ve convinced themselves that they are way too fat and must lose weight–in spite of their deteriorating bodies and health… if we are not careful, external stimuli can hinder our abilities to think in “real time.”

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

angel,
I like your postscript. God is watching ‘and’ writing down all of what we say in the Book of Life. We will someday go over our careless words with Him. Rev.21:27

God bless,
jean8

Hi, jean!

Jesus warns us that, indeed our words will make us or brake us!:

36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. (Mt 12:36-37)

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[christisall]

You say the pews are full of hypocrites,a nd I assume you are talking about Catholics. That may be, but how many of those who are lukewarm are “casting out demons” in His name? Very few if any. So now you turn it to apply to Catholic charismatics. Very dangerous, especially when they are in union with the Church. If anything, this would apply to the thousands of “churches” that have sprung up, that condemn that Catholic Church and the pope, “worshipping” Mary, etc. They almost all “cast out” demons in their prayer, and we, the Catholic Church, are some of the demons that they refer to.

They twist scriptures for their own purpose, striking examples are mormons or jehovahs witnesses. But the evangelicals, Baptists and others who methodically denounce our true Church, day in and day out, and teach others to do so as well, what is the Lord going to say to them? It is much more likely this will apply to many of them, especially those that teach these things about Gods one true Church.

But to apply it to Catholics shows that you are really quite weak in your assessment. You shifted to that scripture, and apparently you don’t believe much in the power of the Eucharist and/or the Blessed sacrament because I stated that prayer is in Mass, in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and very few lukewarm people go and sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament, wouldn’t you agree?

Really, it’s kind of pathetic the lengths that some of you go through to discredit your fellow Catholics, and prove your hyper-traditionalist points. If these Catholics are in mortal sin, they are only a confession away from full communion with God.

Also on the hyper-traditionalist(as opposed to one who believes fully in tradition but doesn’t squelch the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD), who though their mentality, are in danger of becoming like those in Christ’s time…they admonished the Disciples for picking corn on the Sabbath, for not washing their hands. Or the parable of the man pulling his animal out of a ditch on the Sabbath, etc. etc.

His point was the rules they created (and I believe in following all rules of the Cathholic faith, birth control, all of them), but the 600 plus rules they developed had blinded them to the truth and made them like whitewashed tombs.

Also, remember Jesus’ words about those who “strain out a gnat, yet swallow a camel”.

Yes, I am.

Saying the words means little unless there is true conversion and action behind them. The pews are full of hypocrites.

But this did not come from me. Jesus Himself proclaimed it.

Mt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’”

 

[christisall]

Re(thistle’s comments):
"You are the most judgemental person in the entire thread. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!!

To thistle: Yeah right, I’ve read what you have said and it seems you think you are so holy and right, and some of your statements and others regarding the Charismatic renewal are blatantly false, against the Church’s teaching, condemning of fellow Catholics in what they are doing in trying to praise and serve the Lord, and spreading error and calumny among the true believers. If Paul were here he’d straighten you out and fast, of that I am certain. I speak out because it is really grievous and you treat it like a walk in the park.

I will continue to defend my fellow Catholics from this false attack by wannabe theologians. We have said many, many times that the most recent Holy Father’s, specifically JPII e.g. has met with the renewal at their International Meetings and mass. He(and the others) have spoken of the Renewal as an important vehicle for renewal in the Church. Yet you and others on this site have the audacity to disagree with a Pope, because you certainly don’t speak of the renewal of the Charismatic Renewal as an important aspect of renewal in the Catholic Church, do you? Of course you don’t, you try every manner possible to discredit it and make it out to be bad.

Well, consider this those of you who pull out saints from 300 AD and such, important and critical as their views are, JPII will in fact be a saint. That being the case, you ignore the words of a saint to be and pull out others. Is one more important than the other to listen to? I would say first of all you don’t have all the facts of what went on right after Christ’s time. But the saint who has spoken positively and prophetically in this day and age, in the events of the world we see right now, you ignore or undermine. I would say the words we hear from him are more critical and clear as to what we should do, because they are clear and we know most of the events surrounding his comments.

I stick completely with what I said below.

christisall;3824074:

I would say first that the same danger applies to those who sit off in judgement of e.g. fellow Catholics who are extremely devoted to the Lord, and by a Hyper-Traditionalist, myopic mentality (and basically fear), judge something to be not of the Lord when it actually is. There is a real danger in this, every much as any EVIL

that is being attributed to those crazy Charisimatic Catholics.

Most people I’ve known who are in some way associated with prayer in the Spirit, e.g. tongues, praises of the Lord, etc. are just as described above, prayerful, Spirit led, DAILY mass, prayer before the Blessed Sacrament, rosaries, etc. etc. etc.

To praise the name of Jesus over and over, thank Him, such as is done in “Charismatic” worship, the devil or demons would have to endure a lot to hang around and create demon worship. After all, if we have even a LITTLE bit of faith, we know that at Jesus’ name every demon shall flee. If we repeat it over and over again in faith, anyone who believes Jesus is not present in a powerful way, in my opinion, is a false prophet and approaching a schismatic.

Jesus said whenever two or more gather in my name, I am there in the midst of them.We remember what Jesus said to the Disciples, when they came running up to Him to tell Him about the man who was using His name to cast out demons, and by golly, he was not authorized to do so. What did Jesus say? Leave him be for anyone who is not against us if for us.

So you people are going to tell me(or imply) that Catholics, in the framework of the Mass, praising the Lord and praying in the Spirit may in danger of eternal damnation?

All I can say is praise you JESUS, praise your HOLY NAME, bless you for You are mighty indeed. That reminds me, many times in this type of prayer setting, these are the types of words that break forth, like Psalms, telling of our God and His mighty deeds? Do we need an interpreter for these as well?

I think that some of you need to increase your prayer life and ask the LORD what he feels about all of this, not intellectually because although this intellectual analysis is nice, the Lord looks at our hearts, not our heads. St. Fancis when he came back after a long period, his brothers had built a huge library of books, and other comforts, and he began throwing them (books) all out for they lost sight of what they were called to do. Eventually, he had to compromise and allow some of this, but the point is well taken.

We see it over and over again, from our Lord that he desires mercy, not sacrifice, that when He comes, we will worship in truth. He promised to send the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, which we are sealed with in Confirmation, and awakened in a powerful way through renewal in the Holy Spirit.
UNQUOTE

/QUOTE]

 

[redrosetea]

I did read yesterday for the place where you ask a priest a question that many saints did speak in tongues…if you go up the the board where people asks questions of a priest you can read it for yourself…Now I don’t know if they spoke actually languages or just made noise…I don’t find it all that enlightening nor edifying

I have read Phillip Neri did, and Theresa of Avila, and Padre Pio…I don’t have a complete list ,or know how many actually did this…I didn’t see anything to indicate they all did

I still doubt that all of those claiming to do this are telling the truth, nor do I want to sit through a demo…the whole thing just leaves me cold, and rather leaves me thinking parlor tricks, for the amusement of others

 

[christisall]

You guys always throw in a red herring, bringing in non-Catholics as an example to discuss the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. I for one when I used to watch Swaggart, was enraged as he said things like, “You won’t get to heaven by being Catholic, or praying to Mary, etc.” Having read items about how many demons entered persons in e.g. Dominic’s time for speaking out against the Rosary, a friend and I used to say he is going to fall, cursing all of these things, he’s taking on many demons. And we know what happened to him.

Now you jump from that and apply it to Catholic Charismatics, most all of whom I knew railed and prayed as Swaggart threw all of his venom.

This just shows to me how off track you really are in your assessments, throwing mud against the wall wherever you can and hoping it sticks.

To think or suggest we would be one in prayer or spirit with one who considers the Pope the antichrist and Rome in Revelations as the Catholic Church is completely uniformed.

Hi, jean!

Being slain in the Spirit is a modern term (I believe); it is usually used in the various non-Catholic circles… the idea is that that Holy Spirit fully takes charge of a person (I witnessed people jumping and dancing, and raising their arms and running up and down aisles… then there are those making sounds (purported to be speaking in tongues) which can be genuine…) Personally, I think that the power of suggestion is as much behind the whole scene as the actual Gift of the Holy Spirit… remember how Jimmy Stewart (televangelist) could turn the emotions on and off as he preached?

The human mind is a fantastic machine… remember that ole “you’re only as old as you think you are?” …a culture of way past old ladies decided to be as unscrupulous as the worst teenagers around them… and the people suffering from bulimia and anorexia… they’ve convinced themselves that they are way too fat and must lose weight–in spite of their deteriorating bodies and health… if we are not careful, external stimuli can hinder our abilities to think in “real time.”

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[christisall]

Perhaps the term hyper-Tradtionalist is better, or traditionalist wannabe. Your assessments are myopic, in my view, as you ignore the words of Popes, including one soon to be a saint (JPII), who has spoken of the Catholic Charismatic renewal as a powerful force for renewal in the Church. You sweep this and other comments like it aside, plodding on with your view and don’t deal with this at all. So to me, you are so wrapped up in what you see as tradition, e.g holding on to the one true Church, you don’t or won’t see the truth in this matter, and thus are hyper-Traditionalist.

I think you should pray more for your fellow Catholic Charismatics, rather than tearing them down. it may straighten some of them out and remove your resentment toward them as well. Also, maybe pray to hear what the Lord says to you in this regard, what He feels about it all.

To say that the traditionalist mentality is myopic and fearful is quite the judgment!

And besides, it is not just the traditionalists who question the authenticity, practices, and theology of the charismatic “movement.”

 

[christisall]

Well, I don’t and never have gone to a Pentecostal prayer meeting, I avoid them like a plague, so I can’t comment on that one, other than from what I’ve seen on TV. I could not pray with someone who under all of their pretenses curses the Church and all that we are.

So, your comparisons to Pentecostals, and in particular linking them in with Catholic Charismatics is befuddling to me. Catholic Charismatics generally are devoted to the Church, the glorious Mass and the Blessed Sacrament, the Sacraments, etc. etc. etc. Lumping them together is an erroneous comparison.

Most Pentecostals as well as many others of the 30,000 plus denominations Scott Hahn mentions, all want to destroy the Catholic Church based upon their false teachings. Many times, they praise you with their lips but we know what is underneath, we’ve seen it and heard it a thousand times.

So to lump these in with us that is Catholics who have had a positive experience in the Charismatic Renewal, as broad as that blanket is, to me shows a lack of understanding what is really going on.

I believe to some extent the Lord brought this type of prayer and charism to the Catholic Church partially to deal with the antics (demonic as they may be) of those leading people out of the Church in this way. The Lord gives weapons as He sees fit.

I have dealt with many Catholics who left for other churches, and we have seen many of the stories in recent times, of those who come back. Some I’ve seen come back started their journey home in a prayer meeting, which was now similar to what they had been attending in terms of praise songs, prayer in the Spirit (though now the power was true power with the Mass and Eucharist), which made their transition easier, perhaps to some extent like coming out of a cult, brainwashing so-to-speak.

In any case, these people are given much love, much prayer for their needs, their illnesses, friends and relatives who are ill, praying over them for healing and peace, all in a Catholic setting. Many have also become Catholic for the first time through
such prayer settings. It is, as JPII has said, a true power for renewal in the Church. You can disagree with this, but you are disagreeing with Popes, one a soon to be saint (JPII).

No Catholic Charismatic believes in ANY type of birth control, and you’ll find them praying in front of abortion killing centers and involved with the pro-life movement. So that comparison is also pretty amazing and false.

Agreed.
The same slur about traditionalism being myopic and fearful is raised in every arena of life.

Consider:
“My parents are so old fashioned. They won’t let me stay out with my buddies until 4:00 am.”
“The church needs to get with the times. Birth control is good.”
“I only had a few drinks. I’m safe to drive.”

I think you get the idea. Wisdom is to be found in the caution behind traditionalism. We traditionalists are not arguing that Speaking in Tongues does not exist. What we question is the excessive way it has been “manifested” in the Charismatic and Pentocostal circles.

A little bit of math should help to clarify things. Linguists have told us that the Earth has perhaps 6,400 different languages. The Charismatics have thrown this number up repeatedly, daring us to admit that their tongue-speech could be one of these 6,400 languages and we are just too ignorant to recognize it.

How many Charismatic and Pentecostal tongue-speakers exist? Could we safely say that it is well in excess of 6,400? Did you know that the Assemblies of God alone claims over 10 Million members? Charismatic and Pentecostal Christians just in the United States are estimated to be in excess of 30 Million. Some sources claim the United States number is as high as 80 Million. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostalism 80,000,000 divided by 6,400 means that each of those languages would have 12,500 tongue-speakers per language just in the United States.

It has been my personal observation that most individual tongue-speakers tend to use the same vocalizations each time. There is a fair amount of repetitive consistency here, especially in established tongue-speakers. Yet, amongst these vast Millions of Charismatics and Pentecostals, each claiming that she believes she is possibly speaking one of these 6,400 unknown languages, how often do you hear any two together using the same tongue-speech vocalizations? I’ve never witnessed that. Ever.

I can go into any public place and hear groups of people conversing in Spanish, Arabic, German, French, Japanese, Chinese… I have never, ever, even at Charismatic or Pentecostal prayer meetings, seen a group of tongue-speakers carrying on an intelligent conversation in tongue-speech. No, whether they want to say “the prayer meeting is starting” or “where is the bathroom” they switch to English!!!

 

[christisall]

You know, I’d like to see this group you are talking about because in all the people I have ever met in this setting, I’ve never seen anything even remotely near this. Not even close.

At masses, there is reverence, worship, praise. I quite frankly don’t believe what you are saying and I think you are probably making this up or exaggerating based upon your own beliefs. If there are people coming in and grabbing a host, and the priest says nothing, I also find that hard to believe. If this group exists as you say, they would have to be called to task with higher authority, e.g. leaders in the Renewal or the Bishop in your area, and treated any other abuser of the liturgy. To imply the Charismatic Renewal is like this in general is blatantly false and defamatory.

And to say they threaten a pastor they would go elsewhere doesn’t even make sense, why would he care, especially if they were a problem to him??? This sounds like something made up to me.

You also said:

“If Satan could dare challenge Jesus Himself it seems reasonable that he and his minions wouldn’t mind suffering through a Christian celebration”.

This still to me shows a lack of full complete belief int he power of the Blessed Sacrament. If you think Satan hangs around this, the risen Christ, you are incorrect, in my opinion. Jesus said even greater things than these will you do as I go to My father in heaven. This says His power is even greater now, and to say Satan hangs around His presence, I find to be a lack of faith in His Power, and a lack of belief in the power of faith, when we pray in Jesus’ name for all evil to flee. Jesus’ said if you say to a mountain
be picked up and move, it will be done so with faith, etc. etc. etc. So you’re saying when we believe in Jesus’ name, Satan be gone, we should waver? Not me, no thanks.

Finally, you use the protestant tool against us, when you said
" Jesus also warned about repetition in prayer… just because much is being said does not mean that it is pleasing to our Lord…".

We know the multitudes of times they use it against us, as we shouldn’t pray the Rosary, Hail Mary, our father repetitively, that Catholics use repetitive prayer.

Hi, Christisall!

This is wonderful… however, I’ve known a few who have decided that their “special meets” are even more important than the celebration of the Holy Mass… they drop in whenever, make conversation and plans, pick up the Host and leave… sometimes right after receiving the Eucharist… sometimes they only drop in to pick up the Host… yet, come their meets… everyone’s there, for hours at a time!

…at one parish they even dictated to the Pastor what, when and how… under threats of taking their group somewhere else…

I’ve experience less humility and charity from these *most enlightened *Catholics than from non-Catholics who happened to take part of a Church activity or the celebration of the Holy Mass!

If Satan could dare challenge Jesus Himself it seems reasonable that he and his minions wouldn’t mind suffering through a Christian celebration… however, I don’t think that most people believe that demon worship is being done by charismatics… I think that a warning has been given that by becoming an extremist when it comes to “speaking in tongues” (must be done; everyone must do it; it is an obligation received at Baptism; the person that experiences it is a highly spiritual person…) we may fall into error to the point of excluding true worship for what may only be a “feeling/emotion” and a sense of “spiritual maturity.”

The comparison was made that similar sounds are employed in cultural and satanic chants–this by no means is a claim that charismatic movements are santanic worshipers.

Jesus also warned about repetion in prayer… just because much is being said does not mean that it is pleasing to our Lord… and while those who were taking Jesus’ name and acting on His behalf were not stopped from continuing in their practice, they were still subject to the same obligations as the Disciples… further, I believe that once the Holy Spirit came to the Church on Pentecost all those who existed in the fringes of the Way would be called to the Unity of the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit–strong persecutions began at the onset of Pentecost–all who proclaimed the Name of Christ would suffer through it!

If they believe that they are “saved” by what they do and that those who do not do it are “condemned” or, in the least, are not as dovoted to Christ as they… yes!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[redrosetea]

I wonder as much as I dislike this stuff if it is part of the JPII generation of Catholics?

I will say the Word of God has large families by todays standards

I think many of us are so turned off by the Pentecostals we have a great horror ,and fear of them ,getting a toe hold in our Church

I will still avoid their masses…sorry Christisall…old habits die hard

But I do know a woman I have great respect for ,that is a Charismatic, she dropped it when she found out I wasn’t interested, but she didn’t drop me. We are friends

She has great faith and loves God a lot…her fruits are good…she is trying to save souls, and does it with great kindness

 

[Nan_S]

You say the pews are full of hypocrites,a nd I assume you are talking about Catholics. That may be, but how many of those who are lukewarm are “casting out demons” in His name? Very few if any. So now you turn it to apply to Catholic charismatics. Very dangerous, especially when they are in union with the Church. If anything, this would apply to the thousands of “churches” that have sprung up, that condemn that Catholic Church and the pope, “worshipping” Mary, etc. They almost all “cast out” demons in their prayer, and we, the Catholic Church, are some of the demons that they refer to.

But to apply it to Catholics shows that you are really quite weak in your assessment. You shifted to that scripture, and apparently you don’t believe much in the power of the Eucharist and/or the Blessed sacrament because I stated that prayer is in Mass, in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and very few lukewarm people go and sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament, wouldn’t you agree?

Really, it’s kind of pathetic the lengths that some of you go through to discredit your fellow Catholics, and prove your hyper-traditionalist points. If these Catholics are in mortal sin, they are only a confession away from full communion with God.

Also, remember Jesus’ words about those who “strain out a gnat, yet swallow a camel”.

Your argument about the power of the Eucharist is valid, however you must admit that the condemnatory words of Jesus are equally valid. My point, which you don’t seem to have understood, is that salvation is not for transient believers, no matter how sincere their belief may have been. It matters not how many hours they spent in adoration, nor how many miracles they performed, nor how enthusiastically they may have exhibited charisms.

Quite simply, I reply to you that the evidence of “speaking in tongues”, IF valid, is merely proof of the moment, and doubtless if you were to die of a heart attack at that very moment you may have every expectation of heaven. Suppose you don’t die right then. Does your conversion experience follow you outside the chapel door and beyond the parking lot exit? Is it a conversion that embodies your whole life and is shown by the fruits of your actions when you leave Eucharistic Adoration? As you stated, Catholics in mortal sin are only a confession away from God, but I would reply that until they actually come to confession, until they repent and change, they are still “away.”

The ones He condemns, who had been prophesying and casting out demons in His holy name, are nowhere said to have been “pretending” to cast out demons. Jesus words make no such suggestion. For a time they were genuine believers. For a time their names were written in the Book of Life. The proof of their faith was the ability to cast out demons, prophesy, and do mighty deeds in His name. But then, like the wheat growing up amongst weeds, they lost sight of Him and turned away. And on the last day the Lord rejected them.

Charisms or not, we are indeed ALL in danger of eternal damnation, unless we have genuine faith that permeates every aspect of our entire lives until the moment of our death. He who endures to the end will be saved (Mt 24:13). Remember that?

Rev 3:1-6 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: 'The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works; you have the name of being alive, and you are dead. Awake, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God. Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white, for they are worthy. He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

This is really diverging off the original post, which was to debate whether tongue-speech as exhibited by the millions of Charismatics (and presumably Pentecostals as well) is a genuine charism and holy gift, or whether most people were simply being misled through an emotional experience to believe they had received a spiritual gift.

You appear to have taken the former position. I take the latter. I also take offense at your dismissing me as being a “pathetic” hyper-traditionalist. Shall we then simply agree to disagree and move on to more productive discussion elsewhere?

 

[pattyreyes]

I was raised catholic grew up loving God with all my heart but walked away from God in my early 20’s. I walked away from God I left the Catholic Church because I left God. 25 years later I have come back to a relationship with My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.It was during a pentecostal worship service that I recieved the gift of tongues. Since then I have been praying and wanting to come back into the Catholic Church. My pastor has directed me that this is where I would be truly at home and does encourage me to make this journey. I keep searching for a charismatic renewal group in my community but most catholics in my area including local priests have no knowledge of these services in my area.I truly believe my opening up my heart to the gifts of the Holy spirit will lead me to all of Gods truths when it is right for me. God has bestowed this gracious gift upon me I believe because I am in need of it. Thank you Lord for saving me. Please pray for my journey.

 

[cazayoux]

The greatest problem for “tongue” ministries is that they not only claim that all who are making sounds are indeed speaking directly to God, in the Holy Spirit, but they argue that lack of the ability simply means that that person/s does not have enough Faith or spiritual maturity–talk about loading the odds; no wonder the house always wins!

Maran atha!

Angel

Can God give this gift to anyone he chooses?
Absolutely.
Do I think he’s doing this today.
I’m skeptical.
Speaking in tongues disappeared from the planet for hundreds of years … and is now back for the last 100 years or so.

I’m a devout Catholic.
I love Jesus and I love my faith.
I pray constantly.
I do not believe that these people are actually speaking in tongues today.

This may sound terrible, but this is what I think.
I see those that speak in tongues today as having a lack of faith.
It’s like they need proof that they are connected to the Holy Spirit.
Needing proof is the opposite of faith.

John 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

michel

 

[Cari]

I was raised catholic grew up loving God with all my heart but walked away from God in my early 20’s. I walked away from God I left the Catholic Church because I left God. 25 years later I have come back to a relationship with My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.It was during a pentecostal worship service that I recieved the gift of tongues. Since then I have been praying and wanting to come back into the Catholic Church. My pastor has directed me that this is where I would be truly at home and does encourage me to make this journey. I keep searching for a charismatic renewal group in my community but most catholics in my area including local priests have no knowledge of these services in my area.I truly believe my opening up my heart to the gifts of the Holy spirit will lead me to all of Gods truths when it is right for me. God has bestowed this gracious gift upon me I believe because I am in need of it. Thank you Lord for saving me. Please pray for my journey.

God bless you and your journey home!

Am I reading this correctly, that your Protestant pastor has been so supportive in you returning to Holy Mother Church? If so, God bless him, for being so open to God’s Truth!

My next question is this, have you gone to confession and returned to Mass yet? Because it sounds from your post (if I’m reading it right) that you’re waiting to find a parish with a charismatic group before you do so…? If this is the case, I cannot urge you strongly enough to put that in the backseat- go to confession and begin attending Mass first- after all, it is the most important thing on earth. Speaking in tongues and any unique support you may receive in a charismatic group is a far, far second to returning home- quickly!

 

[pattyreyes]

Yes, my protestant pastor has been very supportive of me.Believe it or not he watches EWTN more than myself. He loves the Mass in latin as he speaks latin and hebrew. He is also in awe of the respect shown to the Holy Eucharist. Yes I have been back to confession and also to Mass. I also still attend services with my husband in the pentecostal church as I discussed this with my parish priest and he said it would be acceptable as long as I fulfill my obligations with the Catholic Church.But I do feel a very deep longing for a charismatic Catholic service. Thanks for your prayers, it truly means alot to me . I wish the Catholic Church around me had more of a fellowship. Or maybe I just need to be a part of the solution I am looking for. I don’t believe God would bring me this far without a plan for me.

 

[jcrichton]

You know, I’d like to see this group you are talking about because in all the people I have ever met in this setting, I’ve never seen anything even remotely near this. Not even close.

At masses, there is reverence, worship, praise. I quite frankly don’t believe what you are saying and I think you are probably making this up or exaggerating based upon your own beliefs. If there are people coming in and grabbing a host, and the priest says nothing, I also find that hard to believe. If this group exists as you say, they would have to be called to task with higher authority, e.g. leaders in the Renewal or the Bishop in your area, and treated any other abuser of the liturgy. To imply the Charismatic Renewal is like this in general is blatantly false and defamatory.

And to say they threaten a pastor they would go elsewhere doesn’t even make sense, why would he care, especially if they were a problem to him??? This sounds like something made up to me.

You also said:

“If Satan could dare challenge Jesus Himself it seems reasonable that he and his minions wouldn’t mind suffering through a Christian celebration”.

This still to me shows a lack of full complete belief int he power of the Blessed Sacrament. If you think Satan hangs around this, the risen Christ, you are incorrect, in my opinion. Jesus said even greater things than these will you do as I go to My father in heaven. This says His power is even greater now, and to say Satan hangs around His presence, I find to be a lack of faith in His Power, and a lack of belief in the power of faith, when we pray in Jesus’ name for all evil to flee. Jesus’ said if you say to a mountain
be picked up and move, it will be done so with faith, etc. etc. etc. So you’re saying when we believe in Jesus’ name, Satan be gone, we should waver? Not me, no thanks.

Finally, you use the protestant tool against us, when you said
" Jesus also warned about repetition in prayer… just because much is being said does not mean that it is pleasing to our Lord…".

We know the multitudes of times they use it against us, as we shouldn’t pray the Rosary, Hail Mary, our father repetitively, that Catholics use repetitive prayer.

…you have a right to your opinion; if you do not accept what I have stated as truth, that is your choice. What I have experienced is what I have experienced.

My belief is just the same: there are genuine people out there just as there are fake worshipers.

Defamatory? …if it quacks like a…

I do not claim that all charismatic movements are the same; I do not even claim that none speak in tongues; I claim what I witnessed; though I do not speak for Christ, I speak in Christ and I let Him be my Judge!

…and you actually believe that a Priest can tell which of his one hundred plus fellow Catholics just dropped in while He Sanctified the bread and wine?

…something made up? What would I have to gain? I do not know if you have read some of my other posts–I am not seeking “points.” I respond to the best of my abilities; I’ve made it clear to the readers that I am not a scholar or a theologian… I gain no favor from God by perpetrating lies in order to win an argument.

What I meant to convey about Satan is that he dared to challenge Jesus knowing that Jesus is God and that He came to finalize his destruction (the prince of this world has no power over Me!); so if Satan dared to face Jesus, since he knew it was not yet his time to be Judged, why would anyone think that he would not dare to enter the Church? He is the deceiver and the destructor, and while he cannot deceive God, man is another issue altogether. It is a fallacy to believe that all who say Lord, Lord, are true disciples.

Trusting Jesus or Jesus’ Name is not the issue; trusting that all who claim to be in Jesus are genuine is.

The Protestant tool? I did not know they had exclusive rights… but don’t worry… I’ve heard a few ministers speak for quite a while on a single passage of Scriptures… and talk about repetitious (“can I hear an ‘Amen’?”)… they even trivialize their worship by seeking the approval and seconding of their flocks… but you must agree that 10 to 20 people going off on chants that can last and last is very repetitious!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I was raised catholic grew up loving God with all my heart but walked away from God in my early 20’s. I walked away from God I left the Catholic Church because I left God. 25 years later I have come back to a relationship with My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.It was during a pentecostal worship service that I recieved the gift of tongues. Since then I have been praying and wanting to come back into the Catholic Church. My pastor has directed me that this is where I would be truly at home and does encourage me to make this journey. I keep searching for a charismatic renewal group in my community but most catholics in my area including local priests have no knowledge of these services in my area.I truly believe my opening up my heart to the gifts of the Holy spirit will lead me to all of Gods truths when it is right for me. God has bestowed this gracious gift upon me I believe because I am in need of it. Thank you Lord for saving me. Please pray for my journey.

Hi pattyreyes!

…my prayers are with you; God never gave up on you so your trek has not been alone. Please continue to seek Him; when you least expect it you will find everything that you are seeking. Remember that Jesus is not interested in how long or how many but that we be willing to follow Him!

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Can God give this gift to anyone he chooses?
Absolutely.
Do I think he’s doing this today.
I’m skeptical.
Speaking in tongues disappeared from the planet for hundreds of years … and is now back for the last 100 years or so.

I’m a devout Catholic.
I love Jesus and I love my faith.
I pray constantly.
I do not believe that these people are actually speaking in tongues today.

This may sound terrible, but this is what I think.
I see those that speak in tongues today as having a lack of faith.
It’s like they need proof that they are connected to the Holy Spirit.
Needing proof is the opposite of faith.

michel

Hi, Michel!

I concur with most of your post–I do believe that there could be some genuine “speaking in tongues” because Jesus revealed that there would be signs given about the Parusia… so it could well be that the Gift of tongues may have some resurgence–this, of course, is something that can be abused by attention seekers.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[christisall]

This whole thing about"attention seekers" to me is really quite amusing. It shows that those who claim this have absolutley, and I mean absolutely no knowledge of what is really going on with these people. I have been in Catholic Charismatic worship services, incuding Mass, adoration, song, individual prayer by a multitude of pirests, 24 Hr adoration chapel, rosary, song etc. with about 2,500 people present, and I can guarantee you that no one at that service travelled, in some cases from other countries, and all states around the country, to gain some “attention”. From who, from each other? The argument and accusation is so ridiculous it really almost doesn’t deserve comment. This shows how shallow and childish the views are of people who say this are, like a little kid saying"you’re just trying to get attention." Ridiculous.

Hi, Michel!

I concur with most of your post–I do believe that there could be some genuine “speaking in tongues” because Jesus revealed that there would be signs given about the Parusia… so it could well be that the Gift of tongues may have some resurgence–this, of course, is something that can be abused by attention seekers.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[christisall]

I don’t know where you are living at, but this happens sometimes, the area (rural) I’m in has little or nothing right now. I would recommend checking out the Intercessors of the Lamb, a large group of brothers, sisters, and priests in Omaha, NE. We just moved from there to Washington DC area last year, but we have been involved with them over the years as Companions of the Lamb.

Their conference at the QWEST Center in Omaha, which draws over 2,000 from around the US and world, is going on this week in Omaha, and my young teens and kids and we are extremely disappointed we can’t go this year. They have a fantastic week long kids program for all ages, led by brothers, sisters, and other committed teens. Each year it is a joy to see our kids come out on fire for the Lord, full of joy, singing songs with all their hearts, and even putting together a kids and teen program at the end for all to watch. Some youth who volunteer read from their journals on stage to all, some lines from what they felt the Lord speak to them that week. They are taught this journaling during the week, to learn to sit quietly, in prayer, and listen to what Our Lord might convey to them.

At this conference, there is mass every night (one night by the Archbishop of Omaha), tremendous homilies, about a 15-20 piece music group singing praise and worship songs with words up on the large screen, all the kids and others doing hand signals they’ve learned for various songs. The first thing in the am, all gather for songs, praise and worship, then the kids go off to their classes, and there are talks by Mother Nadine on various topics, workshops, individual prayer, confessions, 24 hr adoration, rosary, etc. Mother has been on EWTN, Johnette Benkovic’s program.

Their charsim is intercessory prayer, but it is so much more. They are fully booked for retreats at all times. Some of Mother Theresa of Calcutta’s nuns came, and did retreats, and they ordered several thousand of one of the key books they have.

I’ve known Mather Nadine to some extent since the early 80’s, when I came back to the church after beginning my recovery from alcoholism. Unbeknownst to me, my aunt had gone to her and the prayer group asking prayer for me on behest of my mom, as I had really hit bottom. After much prayer, the word came to her from the Lord I was going to be OK, I would come through. It was very shortly after this that I went to get help, and I have not had a drink since that day, 3/1/8/80.

In the process of my recovery, I was referred to a priest who was a recovering alcoholic sober for many years. He was great, and after a long discussion, he suggested I go to confession at Creighton University, so I went right away. It happened to be the day of the Easter Vigil. I was blessed beyond measure to go to Fr. Thomas Halley, now deceased. When I walked into his confessional, I literally felt like I was walking into a brilliant light, like the tomb of the Risen Christ, and I was quite stunned to some extent. Fr. Halley was extremely compassionate and people would come for miles around for confession with him. I wandered from God, and hadn’t read much scripture. My aunt gave me the scripture oft he Lost Lamb. Believe it or not, I didn’t recall this scripture, but was extremely encouraged to find God not only did not condemn me, but was searching for me! I mentioned this to Fr., and he said the Father was overjoyed at my return. I went to confession for several years to him after that, and you cannot imagine the healing and spiritual blessings I received. The Easter vigil service that night, with candles in the darkness, coming into glorious light and song and praise, was quite a homecoming!

I bring this up because Fr. Halley, who was so humble and prayed constantly for people, and didn’t have many words, but he prayed so much…he was Mother Nadine’s spiritual director for many years. I found out later that he was also the official exorcist for the Diocese of Omaha, and for some time Catholic Charsimatic Laison. This explains to some extent the Intercessors knowledge of many details of spiritual warfare that they(we) employ praying for people.

If you want to find out more on the Intercessors, whom I feel really truly represent the best in many aspects and Charsimatic worship, you can check them out at :
bellwetheromaha.org

Peace in Christ

I was raised catholic grew up loving God with all my heart but walked away from God in my early 20’s. I walked away from God I left the Catholic Church because I left God. 25 years later I have come back to a relationship with My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.It was during a pentecostal worship service that I recieved the gift of tongues. Since then I have been praying and wanting to come back into the Catholic Church. My pastor has directed me that this is where I would be truly at home and does encourage me to make this journey. I keep searching for a charismatic renewal group in my community but most catholics in my area including local priests have no knowledge of these services in my area.I truly believe my opening up my heart to the gifts of the Holy spirit will lead me to all of Gods truths when it is right for me. God has bestowed this gracious gift upon me I believe because I am in need of it. Thank you Lord for saving me. Please pray for my journey.