Speaking in tongues: genuine charism or silly gibberish?

[Lepanto]

I hadn’t realised this thread is still going on. As I said hundreds of posts ago anyone who claims they speak in tongues without being prepared to submit that claim to the Church is a FAKE.
Its not like a natural gift of being good at art or music. Tongues would be a supernatural gift and ONLY the Church can discern if someone has such a gift. Someone self proclaiming that they have the gift of tongues is arrogant and a fake.

I agree 100%. Claiming to “speak in tongues” is no different than claiming to see a Marian apparition. It’s up to the Church to decide if it’s genuine, or faked, or if it’s an honest mistake, or if it’s diabolical.

The Church says as much in Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium, paragraph12:

“Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use; but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs, not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to that which is good.”

Here’s the source:
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

In the meantime, I think St. Paul’s example is best. Here, he rebukes the charismatics at Corinth:

“I would rather speak five words with my mind, than ten thousand words in a tongue.” 1 Cor 14:19

 

[Chris_Patterson]

I hadn’t realised this thread is still going on. As I said hundreds of posts ago anyone who claims they speak in tongues without being prepared to submit that claim to the Church is a FAKE.
Its not like a natural gift of being good at art or music. Tongues would be a supernatural gift and ONLY the Church can discern if someone has such a gift. Someone self proclaiming that they have the gift of tongues is arrogant and a fake.

I agree. But the question is this: What does it mean to submit a gift to the Church?

In my case, my parish priest recognizes that I speak in tongues, and does not think I am a fake.

My point was not to refrain from testing, or to refrain from submitting ourselves to testing. My point was that many make assumptions that gifts are fake, without knowing the person involved, his circumstances, the fruit, or the authority (parish priest) he is under.

I am curious. Thistle, were you implying that I self proclaimed myself to have the gift of tongues, and that I was a fake? I couldn’t exactly tell from your post.

In His love,
Chris

 

[jcrichton]

Angel,

I don’t think you are limiting the Spirit. I think 1 Cor 14 is clear that gifts like prophecy that build up the Church are more valuable than gifts like tongues that mainly edify ourselves. And I think that is at least part of your point.

*Hi, Chris!

Correct; to highly emphasize the need for speaking in tongues while ignoring all other Gifts is one of the errors I see in many movements.

One thing I would caution us all on, is to be careful about making the statement I have seen frequently in this thread, that is, the statement: “I don’t believe everyone who says he speaks in tongues actually has the gift.”

I know we are supposed to test the spirits, so to speak. But what criteria do we use to determine who really has the gift, and who is fooling or being fooled?
Pesonally, I am speaking from experience; the various groups (both Catholic and non-Catholics) which I have experienced are bent on “must speak,” “not open to the Spirit,” “lack of faith,” or “not mature, spiritually…” Combine that with a dose or two of superiority complex and we have a direct contradiction to the Holy Scriptures. The Holy Spirit will never give us a Gift that will trump Scriptures.

• The fruit of love and devotion to Jesus are probably the best two criteria. Few of us know someone well enough to do a good job of evaluating that fruit. If we look at an individual and say, “That is not really the legitimate gift of tongues,” do we really know that person well enough to evaluate his fruit?

I concur with you only partially… while it is true that we cannot know the heart of another, love and devotion to Jesus is not something that we can put on and take off–we must demonstrate the “new creature” all of the time, specially with those who we/they might consider to be our nemesis/enemies. It is not enough for a Catholic to demostrate love and adherence to Christ when dealing with his/her direct relatives or parishioners or with only those who are part of our direct circle…

• Maturity? Gifting and maturity certainly are not synonymous. Maturity generally affects the proper use of a gift, as well as the fruit yielded from that use. (Just as a person’s maturity and dispostion towards Jesus affect how taking the Eucharist will produce fruit in that person’s life.)

Again, I partly agree with you… though we are all in the path of development; those of us who are (consider ourselves) more spiritual must assist those who are weaker in the Faith through loving care and nourishment; tooting one’s own horn while eroding the weaker’s Faith is way counterproductive…

I guess I have heard people doubt the validity someone’s “tongues.” Yet the reason for that doubt is unclear, and perhaps clouded by a prejudice against the gift, or a lack of experience with the gift.

Or, perhaps the particular person speaking in tongues is acting crazy, or undignified. Even using this criteria we run the risk of calling exuberance (perhaps immature exuberance) as ungodly, when in fact it is simply an immature use of the gift. And perhaps God wants a little exuberance! Remember Michal’s punishment when she despised David’s undignified dance before the Lord.

I do not doubt that there are elements of that sort on both sides of this issue; yet, I cannot believe that God desires people to scream and jump aimlessly and make all sorts of guttural sounds… interestingly enough you have brought up a point… was David’s dance undignify or was Michal displeased because David was genuinely celebrating Yahweh God’s return to Israel (via the Box of the Covenant)?

We can probably make an accurate statement that “not everyone who acts like they are praying in tongues are really praying in tongues.” But when we look at individual cases, we need to be really, really careful that we are not attributing a real manifestation of this gift of the Spirit to someone’s carnality or to the working of an unclean spirit.

My policy is to keep my mouth shut as to the validity, and let God do the sorting and correcting.

That’s not to say I wouldn’t call out someone on speaking in tongues inappropriately (regardless of the genuineness of the gift). That would bring up a whole new issue, but the bottom line is that I am more likely to challenge the appropriateness of a gift than the genuineness.

Does this make sense?

In His love,
Chris

I think that we are speaking, roughly, on the same level… while I am generalizing (due to my experience with several groups) you are targetting the Gift itself… again, I do not doubt that the Holy Spirit can and does endow us with His Gifts; but I have experienced too many ocurrances where the Gifts are being “produced” instead of received… I can recall a televangelist who was famed and celebrated by my brother and others–before his down-fall I suspected that he was too much of an actor and less of a spiritual person… he could very well have had many Gifts bestowed upon him… sadly he eventually confided more on his abilities than on the Holy Spirit’s

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[thistle]

I agree. But the question is this: What does it mean to submit a gift to the Church?

In my case, my parish priest recognizes that I speak in tongues, and does not think I am a fake.

My point was not to refrain from testing, or to refrain from submitting ourselves to testing. My point was that many make assumptions that gifts are fake, without knowing the person involved, his circumstances, the fruit, or the authority (parish priest) he is under.

I am curious. Thistle, were you implying that I self proclaimed myself to have the gift of tongues, and that I was a fake? I couldn’t exactly tell from your post.

In His love,
Chris

I don’t know you so I can’t make any comment.
My general comment and point is that thousands of people say they speak in tongues and do not submit to the Church for discernment. They get caught up in the hype and like it when someone tells them they speak in tongues so they assume it must be true. However, if they will not submit to the Church it means either they are fakes (and know it) or they are arrogant enough to think they are genuine (and not humble enough to think they need the Church) but are scared to submit to the church in case they are found not to be genuine.
Remember humility?? Anyone who thinks they have a gift which is not natural will either keep quiet or at least quietly submit themselves to the church for discernment of the alleged gift.

By the way, your local parish priest saying you speak in tongues is not a Church discernment or approval. There is a full process to discern the genuineness of gifts, revelations, visions, revelations or whatever.

 

[M_Leakos]

I have a couple of experiential responses to this good quesiton.

Second, many times I have experienced a quickening - a sharpening - of my sensitivity to the Holy Spirit and His voice during the time I am praying in tongues, as well as immediately after. I believe this is what Saint Paul meant when he said in 1 Cor 14:4 “He who speaks in an tongue edifies himself,…” Often when I pray in tongues, that prayer gives was to really good English prayer.]

Thanks, this helps me understand a little better. So when you pray in tongues, it leads you to some sort of insight you didn’t have before.

 

[M_Leakos]

I have a question. Since Satan is known as the great deceiver, are you concerned that sometimes when you speak in tongues you are speaking something the devil might want you to say?
How do you know?

 

[Chris_Patterson]

I don’t know you so I can’t make any comment.
My general comment and point is that thousands of people say they speak in tongues and do not submit to the Church for discernment. They get caught up in the hype and like it when someone tells them they speak in tongues so they assume it must be true. However, if they will not submit to the Church it means either they are fakes (and know it) or they are arrogant enough to think they are genuine (and not humble enough to think they need the Church) but are scared to submit to the church in case they are found not to be genuine.
Remember humility?? Anyone who thinks they have a gift which is not natural will either keep quiet or at least quietly submit themselves to the church for discernment of the alleged gift.

By the way, your local parish priest saying you speak in tongues is not a Church discernment or approval. There is a full process to discern the genuineness of gifts, revelations, visions, revelations or whatever.

I guess what I have read and heard from the last three Popes doesn’t seem to require each person who speaks or allegedly speaks in tongues to go through a process of validation similar to the validation required for “official church recognition” of a miracle or a Marion apparition. I do not believe you are correct in assuming that magisterial teaching requires such a validation process before one can say he speaks in tongues.

The last three popes seem to embrace and appreciate the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, and to appreciate its contribution - tongues and all. Their main warning is that Catholic Charismatics not try to draw away from the Church.

Here is a U Tube link making some reference to the CCR and the last three popes: youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA

Regarding your general comment about thousands of people who think they have the gift of tongues but won’t submit to the Church, I have to say that I don’t pesonally know any Catholics who fall into that category. And my Protestant Charismatic friends just don’t know enough to submit to the Church - yet! I’m working on them. By the way, most of them I know personally are fairly humble. Since you don’t know me, my endorsement of them might not mean much. None-the-less, I am talking about persons I know. It is usually different when we move from the general to the personal. We tend to be more gracious.

One thing we both truly agree upon: The Church is our authority on this subject, and we’d better submit to her – for our protection and empowerment, and for the protection and empowerment of others.

Thanks for the dialogue, and for your commitment to the Church and her teaching.

In His love,
Chris

 

[Chris_Patterson]

*Hi, Chris!
I think that we are speaking, roughly, on the same level… while I am generalizing (due to my experience with several groups) you are targetting the Gift itself… again, I do not doubt that the Holy Spirit can and does endow us with His Gifts; but I have experienced too many ocurrances where the Gifts are being “produced” instead of received… I can recall a televangelist who was famed and celebrated by my brother and others–before his down-fall I suspected that he was too much of an actor and less of a spiritual person… he could very well have had many Gifts bestowed upon him… sadly he eventually confided more on his abilities than on the Holy Spirit’s

Maran atha!

Angel*

I agree. My point is that various gifts exist, despite immature use. Your point is that immature or fleshly use of gifts is bad. That was St. Paul’s point in his first letter to the Corinthians. In a nutshell, he said, “You have spiritual gifts. That’s great. Now, use them in love, not arrogantly. Because without love, they aren’t worth anything.”

But, note well: St. Paul didn’t say, “Quit using your gifts” nor “Those gifts aren’t real,” nor “You don’t really have those gifts.” He just said, “Use them right, humbly and in order, in love.”

I think you and I both want that in the Church today.

In His love,
Chris

 

[guanophore]

I must confess that I am ignorant as to the content of “Vatican II,” but I doubt very much that the Pope and the Bishops created a *deconstruct manual *for the Catholic Church… could it not be an abuse of license by the various local Bishops, Pastors, Priests, and laity?

Maran atha!

Angel

Oh, absolutely! I was not trying to imply that the teaching of the Church caused these abuses. The Church has never disowned or discouraged the action of the HS, only chaos.

 

[guanophore]

this is my first time here and this interests me because abiut 2 years ago i was going through alot of problems with my husband and his family and one night i had a horrific dream, more like a nightmare anyway in my dream i was fighting with i thought it was the devil, i never saw him but i had the horrified sense of that was who it was, while i was sleeping started crying, mouning and my husband said i was talking in tongues, he could not understand what i was saying, but when i woke up i remembered the dream down to every detail, how could someone talk in tongues if they have never did it before and what could it mean, this has bothered me for so long. can anyone tell me

This experience has happened to many believers. The fact that
Christians pray in tongues in their dreams is one testimony that it is not an invention of the conscious mind. While people can “fake” something like that when awake or at a prayer meeting, this cannot be done in a dream state. Sometimes, when the mind is asleep, the Spirit within us is praying:

1 Cor 14:2-3
" For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God; for nobody understands them, since they are speaking mysteries in the Spirit."

Why would this happen? Because God knows what we have need of before we ask it, and the Spirit within us knows the mind of Christ.

" Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. 27 And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God." Rom 8:26-27

1 Cor 14:14
“For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unproductive.”

It may not make any sense to the rational mind. This variety of the gift is for private prayer, and is for the purpose of strengthening the spirit of the believer, not for communicating with other people.

1 Cor 14:4
" Those who speak in a tongue build up themselves…"

Sometimes we are in a state of weakness so that the Spirit intercedes for us, and through us, according to the mind of God, to meet our needs and strengthen us.

fewtoomany denies that this variety of the gift of tongues exists, but your experience, the scriptures, and the teaching of the Church demonstrate otherwise.

If it is any consolation, I have had this experience several times, and have shared with others who also have.

 

[jcrichton]

I agree. My point is that various gifts exist, despite immature use. Your point is that immature or fleshly use of gifts is bad. That was St. Paul’s point in his first letter to the Corinthians. In a nutshell, he said, “You have spiritual gifts. That’s great. Now, use them in love, not arrogantly. Because without love, they aren’t worth anything.”

But, note well: St. Paul didn’t say, “Quit using your gifts” nor “Those gifts aren’t real,” nor “You don’t really have those gifts.” He just said, “Use them right, humbly and in order, in love.”

I think you and I both want that in the Church today.

In His love,
Chris

Hi, Chris!

I fully concur!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Oh, absolutely! I was not trying to imply that the teaching of the Church caused these abuses. The Church has never disowned or discouraged the action of the HS, only chaos.

I know that some times I must seem simplistic… but my concern is with those who visit without partaking in the exchange and after reading some of the material may run away with the wrong understanding…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[guanophore]

jcrichton:

Hi!

…I have a little problem with this translation… it seems to suggest that St. Paul is actually advocating that all Believers speak in tongues; yet, it is clear by the remaining text on this verse that St. Paul would rather that we all prophesy (preach intelligibly).

Maran atha!

Angel

How am I limiting the Holy Spirit?

I did not say that you were. I just said that there is no need to do so. If we earnestly seek the Giver, then He will bestow the most appropriate gifts.
jcrichton;4409449:

When we read the Holy Scriptures we can emphasize a particar portion of a verse (i.e.: “…the wage of sin is death…”) but we may be excluding a greater and more important message ("…but the Gift of God is eternal Life in Jesus…"). I have never stated that the Holy Spirit is not free to endow man with any of His Gifts; I have simply asserted that not all who claim to have the Gifts are genuine receptors of God’s Grace.

I agree.

The problem with the Holy Scriptures is that many times man choses to place emphasis in a verse or portion of text that seems to support his preconception, as it seems to be the case with the particular portion of Scriptures which was quoted; I am not even suggesting that it was done with ill-intent… only that it misrepresets the message being given by St. Paul and that, left unchallenged, it would heavily weigh as having St. Paul’s full endorcement as his preferred Gift; only when the verse is read in its entirety could we fully see that St. Paul’s endorcement is of proclaiming the Gospel to all!

Yes, this is well said.

 

[guanophore]

I hadn’t realised this thread is still going on. As I said hundreds of posts ago anyone who claims they speak in tongues without being prepared to submit that claim to the Church is a FAKE.
Its not like a natural gift of being good at art or music. Tongues would be a supernatural gift and ONLY the Church can discern if someone has such a gift. Someone self proclaiming that they have the gift of tongues is arrogant and a fake.

I think that is a little strong. I agree that everyone needs to be humble and submit to the discernment of the Church. However, recognizing that one has received a gift is not necessarily arrogant of fake.

 

[guanophore]

By the way, your local parish priest saying you speak in tongues is not a Church discernment or approval. There is a full process to discern the genuineness of gifts, revelations, visions, revelations or whatever.

It is certainly the best place to begin, don’t you think? Everyone should be obedient to the local pastoral authority and discernment.

 

[thistle]

It is certainly the best place to begin, don’t you think? Everyone should be obedient to the local pastoral authority and discernment.

Its not only the best place to begin but it is the correct place to begin with the process. I’m just saying that even if the parish priest says someone can speak in tongues that does not mean it is genuine. It may or may not be.

 

[Chris_Patterson]

I agree 100%. Claiming to “speak in tongues” is no different than claiming to see a Marian apparition. It’s up to the Church to decide if it’s genuine, or faked, or if it’s an honest mistake, or if it’s diabolical.

The Church says as much in Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium, paragraph12:

“Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use; but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs, not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to that which is good.”

Here’s the source:
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

Lepanto,

Thanks for the link and the thoughts. To follow up, I looked up “extraordinary gifts” in the CCC, and here is what I came up with:

2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.

It would seem that tongues is included as an one of the extraordinary gifts, and “judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs, not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to that which is good.” and "Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after,"

OK, gang, could some of you help with some questions, and give me some context here? As you do, keep in mind that I’ve only been a Catholic since August 2007, although my journey to the Church has been much longer. So some of my questions may seem basic to you. As you answer, it would be helpful if you could steer me to other authoritative reading, in the same manner as Lepanto has done.

Here are my questions:

• Is the magisterial teaching in Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium inerrant teaching, authoritative teaching, or just good teaching?
• To whom does Paragraph 12 refer when it says “*but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs.”? Does this refer to our parish priest, deacon, lay teacher, bishop, ecclesial committee, or does it depend upon the context of use and purpose for evaluation? *
• I Corinthians 12:12:31 says *“Eagerly desire the higher gifts.” *1 Cor 14:1 says “Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy." How does this reconcile with paragraph 12 of the Lumen Gentium, which says, "Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use.”?
• What constitutes an extraordinary gift?
• I have done what I believe to be praying in tongues for several years. I have also prophetically prayed over folks for several years – that is, to pray or speak information over others that could not have come from natural means, and only from God. (The apparent fruit of that ministry has been very good and God-glorifying, by the way. It has helped a lot of folks get a lot closer to Jesus and His Church.) I genuinely want to be, and am, fully under the authority of the Church. My pastor (parish priest) supports my journey and my use of these gifts, and I check in with him before I teach or minister. I have run what I teach by him, and have submitted to any correction or change he has given. He has not indicated that I need to do any more to properly be under the covering and authority of the Church (other than to continue to make sure I am growing in understanding Church teaching and Scripture, and make sure my teaching and actions are consistent with both.) MY QUESTION IS: What does the Church teach about how I am handling the gifts I believe I have, and would any of you have any other advice on my conduct.

Thoughts?

In His love,
Chris

 

[clmowry]

From the CCC:

Charisms

799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the
holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.

801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. "Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,"so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together “for the common good.”

 

[jcrichton]

I think that is a little strong. I agree that everyone needs to be humble and submit to the discernment of the Church. However, recognizing that one has received a gift is not necessarily arrogant of fake.

I concur; humble recognition does not automatically translate arrogance or presumption…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

OK, gang, could some of you help with some questions, and give me some context here? As you do, keep in mind that I’ve only been a Catholic since August 2007, although my journey to the Church has been much longer. So some of my questions may seem basic to you. As you answer, it would be helpful if you could steer me to other authoritative reading, in the same manner as Lepanto has done.

*Hi, Chris!
…other than the fact that I am aware of the Catechism, the Writings of the Doctors/Fathers and the Papal Bulls… I am not versed in Catholic Documentation, but I impart my pedestrian understanding of the Catholic Faith hoping that you be inspired to continue your quest into a more formal understanding…

• Is the magisterial teaching in Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium inerrant teaching, authoritative teaching, or just good teaching?

My understanding is that Vatican II was created through an effort of the school of Bishops; this means that it is authoritative teaching–it may include (I’ve not read it) some inerrant teaching; inerrancy means that the Holy Spirit inspires the Pope in matters of Faith (as it happened with the High Priest Caiphas when, moved by the Holy Spirit, he prophesied Christ’s death ("…bettter for one man to die…").

• To whom does Paragraph 12 refer when it says “*but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs.”? Does this refer to our parish priest, deacon, lay teacher, bishop, ecclesial committee, or does it depend upon the context of use and purpose for evaluation? *

…this may be more technical than I may understand but it seems to me that historically we can see that the Church is not made up of similar branches (chain-store type) but a unit that operates under the Pope and the Bishops; when a difficult issue arises the local Pastor is the first line of authority; yet, if he is not clear on the position of the Church he must seek his Bishop’s counsel and so on up to the Vatican; no Priest or Bishop is to stand alone!

• I Corinthians 12:12:31 says *“Eagerly desire the higher gifts.” *

1 Cor 14:1 says “Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy." How does this reconcile with paragraph 12 of the Lumen Gentium, which says, "Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use.”?

…here I consider both the time of inception and the Church’s present existence… though I do not doubt that there were some charlatans and some posers during the Church’s infancy, the Holy Spirit had just recently been given to the Church and His Power was very evident with the Apostles–there was a sense of urgency for this to happen as the prophecies foretold that the Messiah would come to Baptize in the Holy Spirit and in Fire… as the Church grew the Holy Spirit ceased revealing His presence through extraordinary means… conversely, the charlatans and posers began to feel more secure (which is evident in Scriptures) as they fear less and less the instant and terminal repercussions…

The Church cautions against seeking “the higher gifts” much as St. James warns that we must be careful not to all want to become teachers (3:1)… there’s a greater responsibility for those who are confided spiritual favors (as Jesus explains to whom much is given much will be asked, and to whom much is confided much more will be demanded…); this responsibility includes (amongst other things) that we behave differently than others, that we give God the full credit for our abilities and Gifts, that we do not cause others to fall from Grace/Faith; that we do not become a stumbling block to those who are weak/uninitiated; that we judge ourselves our Brethrens’ servants…

…those who compose the Body of Christ are not always true and faithful Believers… hence, Jesus’ warning that there will come a time when many will claim that He is here or there and that the prince of this world will perform signs and miracles that would rival the Church’s in an effort to confuse the elect… it is only natural that the Church would warn against the pursuit of higher Gifts…

• I have done what I believe to be praying in tongues for several years. I have also prophetically prayed over folks for several years… I genuinely want to be, and am, fully under the authority of the Church. My pastor (parish priest) supports my journey and my use of these gifts… MY QUESTION IS: What does the Church teach about how I am handling the gifts I believe I have, and would any of you have any other advice on my conduct.

Thoughts?

In His love,
Chris
…other than direct heresy, I’ve not heard of the Church excomunicating anyone; even in the early Church, rather than to reject a person the Church would study each individual case extensively. Granted, there were moments when the Church had ties with political powers and some Bishops/Priest abused their authority; but, for the most part, the Church is opened to the revelations of the Holy Spirit (a perfect example is St. Francis of Assisi); if your claims are verifiable and they are conductive to obedience to the Faith (the Church, Holy Scriptures and Holy Traditions) how else will the Church judge your abilies and service if not as the Gifts of the Holy Spirit?

One solid clue that you are doing well? Personal and social (local parish’s culture) growth in humility and love.

Maran atha!

Angel