Special Report: The UAW's last stand

[markomalley]

From Reuters:
The United Auto Workers union is staking its future on the kind of struggle it hasn’t waged since the 1930s: a massive drive to organize hostile factories.

(snip)

Central to this effort is the belief that if car companies refrain from actively opposing a UAW organizing push, workers at German-American factories will gladly join the union.

But that belief may be off-base. Workers know that almost every job lost at U.S. car factories in the last 30 years has occurred at a unionized company, while almost every job gained has come at a non-union company. And most of the factories the UAW is targeting are in the South, which is historically hostile to unions.
I fully support the rights of workers to associate. But I don’t support the right of an outside force (like the UAW) to horn its way into an otherwise peaceful workplace.

When I read about unions, I like to recall the words of Pope St Pius X on the subject:

All who glory in the name of Christian, either individually or collectively, if they wish to remain true to their vocation, may not foster enmities and dissensions between the classes of civil society. On the contrary, they must promote mutual concord and charity.

Singulari Quadam (On Labor Organizations) 3
​

Unfortunately, it seems that most modern labor unions attempt to foster distensions between classes.

 

[po18guy]

Although many may consider it to be unreasonable, the organizing movement may be thought of as union greed opposing corporate greed. Money and power no matter how you look at it.

 

[KenChute]

The UAW got in bed with DEMS and the environmental movement that wants the combustion engine banned. Now they wonder why they struggle with layoffs, lost pensions and joblessness.

 

[Newsy]

The corporate agenda is to make as much money as possible, while accruing the least amount of cost. The executives are paid millions, while workers are paid thousands. The union movement wants the worker to get a decent living wage. There is corruption on both sides, but I have a hard time seeing it as class warfare. If the union movement dies, you will see how much they have given to all of us. I actually enjoy my 40 hour work weeks and insurance benefits, brought to you by organized labor.

As far as them organizing “hostile shops”, if the workers don’t want to join the union then this will die out. There is nobody forcing anyone to do anything. The days of union “strong arming” went out about 40 years ago.

 

[KenChute]

The corporate agenda is to make as much money as possible, while accruing the least amount of cost. The executives are paid millions, while workers are paid thousands. The union movement wants the worker to get a decent living wage. There is corruption on both sides, but I have a hard time seeing it as class warfare. If the union movement dies, you will see how much they have given to all of us. I actually enjoy my 40 hour work weeks and insurance benefits, brought to you by organized labor.

As far as them organizing “hostile shops”, if the workers don’t want to join the union then this will die out. There is nobody forcing anyone to do anything. The days of union “strong arming” went out about 40 years ago.

Foolishness, organized union labor cares about one thing power for themselves at the top, Hoffa is a prime example. They have inflicted much more harm than benefits for the worker.

 

[Newsy]

Foolishness, organized union labor cares about one thing power for themselves at the top, Hoffa is a prime example. They have inflicted much more harm than benefits for the worker.

Hoffa is dead, he died 30+ years ago. Do you think that OSHA would exist without the efforts of Organized Labor? Do you think that pensions, insurance benefits, 40 hour work weeks would exist? They didn’t exist before the Labor movement. I doubt it was given to the workers out of the kindness of the management’s hearts.

What harm have they done? Please cite specifics.

 

[markomalley]

Hoffa is dead, he died 30+ years ago. Do you think that OSHA would exist without the efforts of Organized Labor? Do you think that pensions, insurance benefits, 40 hour work weeks would exist? They didn’t exist before the Labor movement. I doubt it was given to the workers out of the kindness of the management’s hearts.

What harm have they done? Please cite specifics.

Actually, in 1926 Henry Ford figured out that a 40 hour workweek would result in better productivity than a 72 hour workweek. Without unions.

He also figured out that it was in his business interest to pay employees enough so that they could, with a little bit of saving, afford to buy the products they were building.

 

[Newsy]

Actually, in 1926 Henry Ford figured out that a 40 hour workweek would result in better productivity than a 72 hour workweek. Without unions.

He also figured out that it was in his business interest to pay employees enough so that they could, with a little bit of saving, afford to buy the products they were building.

Unions had already been established by 1926, but this thread is about the UAW, so I digress.

If everything was going so well, why was the 40 hour work week not the standard, industry wide, by then?

 

[SamH]

Unions had already been established by 1926, but this thread is about the UAW, so I digress.

If everything was going so well, why was the 40 hour work week not the standard, industry wide, by then?

Because Henry Ford was an innovator?

in·no·vate (n-vt)
v. in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing, in·no·vates
v.tr.
To begin or introduce (something new) for or as if for the first time.
v.intr.
To begin or introduce something new.

 

[Ridgerunner]

But that belief may be off-base. Workers know that almost every job lost at U.S. car factories in the last 30 years has occurred at a unionized company, while almost every job gained has come at a non-union company. And most of the factories the UAW is targeting are in the South, which is historically hostile to unions

It may be that they can unionize those other plants without “card check” or something like it. This is probably a “post-2012” push the unions are planning, hoping Obama can get “card check” through so they don’t really have to rely on secret balloting among the workers.

 

[markomalley]

Unions had already been established by 1926, but this thread is about the UAW, so I digress.

If everything was going so well, why was the 40 hour work week not the standard, industry wide, by then?

Actually, in more technical industry, it rapidly became the standard. When you have skilled workers performing complex tasks, you want them relatively fresh. Most managers recognize this and make all attempts to not abuse their employees. Not for compliance with the law, but because it makes business sense.

If I have an employee who has to lift heavy weights for a period of time, I will get that employee the necessary safety equipment. Not because OSHA demands it, but because I don’t want that employee, who I’ve trained and invested my time in, to be out for an extended period. Even not considering sick leave, I would have to hire another employee and train that employee…something where I lose weeks of productivity.

Same thing with eye protection…if an employee’s eyes are put out, I lose a valuable resource. Take any other variety of ergonomics or personal protection. My motivation is not to run afoul of an OSHA inspector. My motivation is to keep employees healthy and productive.

I pay my employees well. Not because of minimum wage legislation (they all make FAR more than minimum wage), but because I want them to keep working for me and not jump to another employer who will pay them more.

I have had to work extended periods of time with 12 hour shifts for about 60 hours a week – within a relatively short period of time, I was burned out and not nearly as productive as I was back when I only worked 40-48 hours a week. Most managers recognize this. I certainly do. I don’t need FLSA to tell me not to work them to death…I would not do that because I need them to be sharp on the job.

I will recognize that unions have done good things for labor. I am not asserting that there is not, nor ever has been, anything good about labor unions. But most management has figured out that abusive treatment of employees is just not smart. Industrial science has come a long way since the gilded age.

And, unfortunately, unions, setting up the adversarial class-warfare environment in almost every place where they exist, do as much harm in these days as good. If unions would actually try to work with management rather than work as a foil to management, they could again do some good. But I don’t see that happening any time soon.

 

[KenChute]

Hoffa is dead, he died 30+ years ago. Do you think that OSHA would exist without the efforts of Organized Labor? Do you think that pensions, insurance benefits, 40 hour work weeks would exist? They didn’t exist before the Labor movement. I doubt it was given to the workers out of the kindness of the management’s hearts.

What harm have they done? Please cite specifics.

Sorry, Hoffa runs the Teamsters,

Union leaders have followed socialist DEMS that have destroyed jobs not to mention expanison of abortion.

 

[po18guy]

Actually, in 1926 Henry Ford figured out that a 40 hour workweek would result in better productivity than a 72 hour workweek. Without unions.

He also figured out that it was in his business interest to pay employees enough so that they could, with a little bit of saving, afford to buy the products they were building.

The Japanese, and now the Koreans are obsoleting the US car companies. They are putting the US out of the car business with better product at lower cost. Those companies use a method taught them by American W. Edwards Deming, after the US companies foolishly rejected it. As well, Japanese culture is such that companies treat employees like family, and thus, no need for the wasteful and destructive adversarial relationship between corporation and employee - which damages product quality and worker morale. Unions were begun to obtain better conditions for workers, but the market and federal law stipulates most of that now. Unions have become greed in opposition to greed. Oh, they still wave the tattered “little guy” flag, but their pay does not stop when their members are freezing on a picket line. IMO, it is best to use the Made in USA corporate system in conjunction with the Japanese cultural system - but just try that in the US!

 

[Ridgerunner]

it is best to use the Made in USA corporate system in conjunction with the Japanese cultural system -

I’m not too sure about that. Japanese culture went from a murderous imperialistic racism to a situation in which nobody marries and nobody has any children. I’m not sure we should fly too readily to that kind of culture.

 

[po18guy]

I’m not too sure about that. Japanese culture went from a murderous imperialistic racism to a situation in which nobody marries and nobody has any children. I’m not sure we should fly too readily to that kind of culture.

I should have specified that I was referring to the system taught to the Japanese by Mr. Deming, combined with the Japanese cultural heritage of treating employees as family. WWII actually converted the warlike nation into a businesslike nation - but at an extremely high cost in human life all round.

 

[MugenOne]

It appears the UAW has not finished casting about for a transplanted carmaker to target for unionization. Recent months have seen small-arms fire aimed at BMW and Hyundai, now UAW head Bob King has pointed artillery at Nissan, with King “accusing the Japanese automaker of unspecified human rights violations at its factories in Tennessee and Mississippi.”

autoblog.com/2011/12/15/nissan-uaws-most-likely-target/

Human rights violations at foreign owned plants, huh? UAW is so desperate. Without those transnational plant workers, there will be no future for UAW because its core members are disappearing fast.

 

[MugenOne]

UAW targeting VW and Mercedes for U.S. organizing drive

The United Autoworkers Union is struggling – and it is the first to admit it. With its membership dwindling after three decades of workforce cuts by Chrysler, Ford and General Motors, the union has pinned its future on organizing one of the transplants. Efforts to convince workers at Japanese-owned plants, like the Nissan factory in Smyrna, Tennessee, have fallen on deaf ears in the past, but there’s now hope that the UAW might succeed at one of the newer German-owned plants.

According to Reuters, the union is targeting the Mercedes-Benz plant in Tuscaloosa County, Alabama, and the Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga. The UAW’s strategy reportedly involves seeking assistance from IG Metall, the powerful German labor union that helped the UAW organize a VW plant in Pennsylvania in the 1970s. Reuters says the German union has a vested interest in helping the UAW, in that it does not want non-unionized workers at the German-owned plants in the United States to be able to undercut it on labor costs. If IG Metall can pressure the German carmakers not to oppose the UAW, the American union would have an easier time getting workers to vote for it, or at least that’s the thinking.

Yet even with IG Metall’s help, the UAW faces a historic challenge in organizing in the South, where the word “union” is regarded about the same as it was during the Civil War. And time is running out, according to the report, which says the UAW has been dipping into its strike fund since 2006.

 

[zz912]

The corporate agenda is to make as much money as possible, while accruing the least amount of cost. The executives are paid millions, while workers are paid thousands. The union movement wants the worker to get a decent living wage. There is corruption on both sides, but I have a hard time seeing it as class warfare. If the union movement dies, you will see how much they have given to all of us. I actually enjoy my 40 hour work weeks and insurance benefits, brought to you by organized labor.

As far as them organizing “hostile shops”, if the workers don’t want to join the union then this will die out. There is nobody forcing anyone to do anything. The days of union “strong arming” went out about 40 years ago.

Is that why the unions are working so hard to pass Card-Check? Card-Check is the epitome of strong arming.

And benefits flourished only after the federal government stupidly decided to cap pay during WWII. Companies reacted by introducing benefits in addition to pay so they could keep and retain their best. That is also why health insurance is so tied to employment.

 

[po18guy]

Sadly, union power and control has gradually become a corrosive, a cancer upon American industry. We have ceased producing and are reduced to consuming. Human rights violations? Why don’t they unionize China?