Special request from US Bishops!

[Seeker1961]

Prayers and love without condemnation is truly the way it should be. That does not preclude confronting and challenging sinners in their sin, which is a duty. Not public humiliation, not continual harassment - just imparting the understanding of facts. Yes, one must accentuate the positive especially by example, but it is a moral duty of those entrusted with teaching authority such as religious leaders and parents to not neglect a subject because it may confront or challenge. To the contrary, it is a duty.

Forgive me if I’m taking it wrong-but when I read your posts it seems like there is nothing more important than telling people how much they are sinning by using contraception. That our first duty is to make sure people know about their sins.

There are a LOT of things that people do that are sinful, and as they grow in faith they’re going to learn what they are and the reasons behind why these actions are considered sinful. More importantly, they’re going to receive the spiritual strength to overcome whatever particular sin is most bothersome to them.

I would also maintain that the Catholic church’s position on sexual issues is well known even to people who have never and will never set foot in a Catholic church-especially in the last few years. What isn’t widely known is the theology underpinning that position, and to understand that-one first needs to come to a deeper understanding of who God is. If I had read Theology of the Body before I understood that-it would have had no meaning for me.

My position remains that the single most important duty we have as Christians is to introduce more people to Christ and help them understand who He is, why He matters and how much He loves them. When Jesus left this earth, He said to “preach the Gospel” to all the earth-He didn’t say “convict people of their sin” over all the earth.

 

[wynnejj]

Forgive me if I’m taking it wrong-but when I read your posts it seems like there is nothing more important than telling people how much they are sinning by using contraception. That our first duty is to make sure people know about their sins.

No. The most important thing is that people not desecrate the Holy Eucharist by receiving unworthily. The first duty is to make sure people understand the meaning of 1st Corinthians 11:27 …

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.

The thread is about Life, Marriage & Religious Liberty which is a cultural problem for both Church & State that all stems from tacit Christian acceptance of contraception in marriage as predicted by Humanae Vitae. There are LOT of sins that are grievous but, contraception in marriage is the one that pertains most prominently to the thread topic.

 

[zonie]

The FIRST duty IS to introduce people to Jesus. There were people WITH Jesus when the teaching came about eating the Eucharist worthily or unworthily. You have to get things in order or it makes no sense.

 

[wynnejj]

The FIRST duty IS to introduce people to Jesus. There were people WITH Jesus when the teaching came about eating the Eucharist worthily or unworthily. You have to get things in order or it makes no sense.

First Holy Communion is the first introduction to the Real Presence of Jesus, and it is preceded by a preparation period to teach the need to receive Our Lord worthily via the sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[iloveangels]

First Holy Communion is the first introduction to the Real Presence of Jesus, and it is preceded by a preparation period to teach the need to receive Our Lord worthily via the sacrament of Reconciliation.

So as far as you are concerned the sum total of Christianity is getting into the Holy Communion line? Meaning, everything is really oriented towards that end so that you follow the rules about being worthy etc. and that’s all there is to it? **

 

[wynnejj]

So as far as you are concerned the sum total of Christianity is getting into the Holy Communion line? Meaning, everything is really oriented towards that end so that you follow the rules about being worthy etc. and that’s all there is to it? **

No. One has to read the Bible to know Jesus - both Old & New - in his person as God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit - depicted in His many aspects - including when He shows His Mercy and when He shows His Wrath. Then one has to read the Catechism to correlate its teaching and square that teaching with what one reads in the Bible. Then one has to read some encyclicals to get an understanding of the Church teachings, especially as they apply to current times. It continues throughout your whole life because your whole life is a faith journey. To know Jesus is to know his principles fortified by his graces when one receives the Holy Eucharist worthily.

That being said, it does not take years & years of study to learn what NOT to do to grievously offend God which includes receiving the Holy Eucharist while engaging in an alternative life style. One need not understand WHY one must not do something that grievously offends God. One must simply show good faith as one gets to know & love Jesus better.

 

[iloveangels]

No. One has to read the Bible to know Jesus - both Old & New - in his person as God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit - depicted in His many aspects - including when He shows His Mercy and when He shows His Wrath. Then one has to read the Catechism to correlate its teaching and square that teaching with what one reads in the Bible. Then one has to read some encyclicals to get an understanding of the Church teachings, especially as they apply to current times. It continues throughout your whole life because your whole life is a faith journey. To know Jesus is to know his principles fortified by his graces when one receives the Holy Eucharist worthily.

That being said, it does not take years & years of study to learn what NOT to do to grievously offend God which includes receiving the Holy Eucharist while engaging in an alternative life style.

Really? How long did it take you to read and thoroughly understand Scripture, the Catechism and all those encyclicals? Two weeks? Did you do it totally by yourself? And you know it all, right?

One need not understand WHY one must not do something that grievously offends God.

So just follow the rules and that’s all there is to it. Is that what you’re saying?

One must simply show good faith as one gets to know & love Jesus better.

And that’s all there is to it? You don’t have to know anything at all? Mediocrity is fine. Just follow the rules and you’ll get by?

 

[wynnejj]

Really? How long did it take you to read and thoroughly understand Scripture, the Catechism and all those encyclicals? Two weeks? Did you do it totally by yourself? And you know it all, right?

So just follow the rules and that’s all there is to it. Is that what you’re saying?

And that’s all there is to it? You don’t have to know anything at all? Mediocrity is fine. Just follow the rules and you’ll get by?

You are attacking my person in a most uncharitable fashion. Knock it off!

 

[iloveangels]

You are attacking my person in a most uncharitable fashion. Knock it off!

I’m not. I don’t even know you. I am calling you on your claims, which are contradictory and superficial.

Christianity is not, and never has been, only about following the rules. Although that is one popular modern interpretation now, particularly when it applies to moral rules.

 

[wynnejj]

I’m not. I don’t even know you. I am calling you on your claims, which are contradictory and superficial.

Christianity is not, and never has been, only about following the rules. Although that is one popular modern interpretation now, particularly when it applies to moral rules.

Let’s try another tack. Take the example of a couple contemplating marriage. Both are trying to get to know each other. As they go through the process, they are finding more reasons why they love each other, but some questions do arise on certain points. Let’s say one knows the other really, really doesn’t like it when the other does a certain thing. In fact, it is a show-stopper. The other person knows this, doesn’t say “I’m sorry”, makes no attempt to correct the action, and then kisses his partner. Is the problem lack of continuing getting to know each other?

When you go to Holy Communion unworthily in full knowledge that your actions without apology are a show-stopper, you are giving Jesus the Judas Kiss? That is the point of 1st Corinthians 11:27.

 

[iloveangels]

Let’s try another tack. Take the example of a couple contemplating marriage. Both are trying to get to know each other. As they go through the process, they are finding more reasons why they love each other, but some questions do arise on certain points. Let’s say one knows the other really, really doesn’t like it when the other does a certain thing. In fact, it is a show-stopper. The other person knows this, doesn’t say “I’m sorry”, makes no attempt to correct the action, and then kisses his partner. Is the problem lack of continuing getting to know each other?

When you go to Holy Communion unworthily in full knowledge that your actions without apology are a show-stopper, you are giving Jesus the Judas Kiss? That is the point of 1st Corinthians 11:27.

When you say that religion is just following the rules, what do you say to Him?

 

[wynnejj]

The discussion of receiving Holy Communion unworthily may be setting this discussion way off topic. How did we get here?

It seems it started with the proposition that a prayer campaign for Life, Marriage & Religious Liberty may be too little, too late. Especially if the prayers are for American society, when there appears to be a need to Evangelize Catholics first. Then it turned towards addressing the hypocrisy of widespread contraceptive use in the Catholic community, when in fact most of the issues related to the prayer campaign originate from contraceptive practices in American society following the predictions of Humanae Vitae.

The proposition that I am making is that we have to make pains to stop the perceived & practiced policy of permitting desecration - making profane that which is sacred - as it relates to our own Catholic complicity in the sexual revolution by not challenging contraceptive practices at the Holy Communion rails. I am not talking about convicting, condemning or policing. I am talking about making clear that reception of Holy Communion unworthily when widespread contraceptive practices appear to be the norm, not the exception, implicitly professes that Holy Communion is not sacred and that the sexual revolution has effectively rendered the truths of the Catholic Church as subject to change in American society.

I’m done. I’m not interested in the Holy Communion topic further as it will tend to go off topic.

 

[iloveangels]

The discussion of receiving Holy Communion unworthily may be setting this discussion way off topic. How did we get here?

It seems it started with the proposition that a prayer campaign for Life, Marriage & Religious Liberty may be too little, too late. Especially if the prayers are for American society, when there appears to be a need to Evangelize Catholics first. Then it turned towards addressing the hypocrisy of widespread contraceptive use in the Catholic community, when in fact most of the issues related to the prayer campaign originate from contraceptive practices in American society following the predictions of Humanae Vitae.

The proposition that I am making is that we have to make pains to stop the perceived & practiced policy of permitting desecration - making profane that which is sacred - as it relates to our own Catholic complicity in the sexual revolution by not challenging contraceptive practices at the Holy Communion rails. I am not talking about convicting, condemning or policing. I am talking about making clear that reception of Holy Communion unworthily when widespread contraceptive practices appear to be the norm, not the exception, implicitly professes that Holy Communion is not sacred and that the sexual revolution has effectively rendered the truths of the Catholic Church as subject to change in American society.

I’m done. I’m not interested in the Holy Communion topic further as it will tend to go off topic.

Catholicism does NOT consist of 45 minutes once a week plus a bunch of politics.

And yes, this is the popular conception of what it consists of among many Catholics–a popular conception that’s been regarded as enough for years. The bare minimum.

This is why what the bishops are proposing is too little, too late.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Catholicism doesn’t consist of 45 minutes once a week plus a bunch of politics.

Yes, this is the popular conception of what it consists of among many Catholics. No, religion is more than that.

This is a good part of why what he bishops are proposing is too little, too late.

I understand where you are coming from, but prayer is never too little or too late.

 

[iloveangels]

I understand where you are coming from, but prayer is never too little or too late.

I agree that we should always pray, Luigi Danielle. That’s not what I’m saying.

I’m saying that many Catholics don’t understand what’s happening and that the infrastructure no longer exists for this kind of push to be adhered to by many people. I’ll bet many parishes never even present this to the people in the parish. It will be interesting to see if it gets any attention at all locally. Most of these things don’t.

In addition, I’ll bet ever fewer of them will put together any kind of support structure to foster this. The parishes will be closed every night as usual. Same, same.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I agree that we should always pray, Luigi Danielle. That’s not what I’m saying.

I’m saying that many Catholics don’t understand what’s happening and that the infrastructure no longer exists for this kind of push to be adhered to by many people. I’ll bet many parishes never even present this to the people in the parish. It will be interesting to see if it gets any attention at all locally. Most of these things don’t.

Ahh, OK. Sadly, you are probably correct.

 

[R_C]

On the bright side today is the first Friday of 2013 (and of January), so this means three things:

1. time for fasting & abstinence as per the US Bishops’ special request (hopefully we’ve been praying the extra daily Rosary since January 1st for the intention of the protection of life, marriage and religious liberty)
2. it’s a great occasion to begin the new year with the 9 First Fridays devotion to the Sacred Heart of the Beloved.
3. tomorrow is the first Saturday :sad_yes: so we could decide to continue the great beginning of year with the 5 First Saturdays devotion to the Immaculate Heart of our heavenly Mother.

Coming up on Sunday January 26 (last Sunday): Eucharistic Holy Hour as per the request of the Bishops.

 

[zonie]

The thing is, the bishops were messing in American politics. And when they least expected it, they were double-crossed. Why? Because they walked right into it. There were people who were waiting for them to make the mistake they did.

So, the USCCB response was to throw out a bunch of big statements, and they’re being called on the carpet over those statements now. I have no idea what they’re going to do, and I’m not sure they do either. Now, they have a big mess on their hands–not only the things that they can control but a lot of stuff that they can’t control, including a lot of historical stuff.

The USCCB has got to get out of politics and tend to the religious well-being of Catholics, and the sooner the better.

how entirely prophetic Angel! And I am so glad we are going back to the focus Jesus had. there will cont. to be those who don’t like it, but it was the same in Jesus’ time, too.

 

[Megan7]

On the bright side today is the first Friday of 2013 (and of January), so this means three things:

1. time for fasting & abstinence as per the US Bishops’ special request (hopefully we’ve been praying the extra daily Rosary since January 1st for the intention of the protection of life, marriage and religious liberty)
2. it’s a great occasion to begin the new year with the 9 First Fridays devotion to the Sacred Heart of the Beloved.
3. tomorrow is the first Saturday :sad_yes: so we could decide to continue the great beginning of year with the 5 First Saturdays devotion to the Immaculate Heart of our heavenly Mother.

Coming up on Sunday January 26 (last Sunday): Eucharistic Holy Hour as per the request of the Bishops.

Thank you! FRIDAY October 4, 2013 is the First Friday of the Month!