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JimG
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The general public is going to be hurt if Catholic institutions are forced to shut down.
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HansTrappist
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How, pray tell, are Catholics “imposing their will” on others.
You got it backwards. The U.S. Government is imposing (via the HHS mandate) its will on Catholics. The Government is bringing pain and suffering upon Catholic institutions by forcing us into a dilemma where we will either have to violate our consciences on an issue involving intrinsic evil (contraception coverage, abortion coverage, etc.) or be forced to shut down Catholic hospitals and other institutions. It is very cruel and very unusual (given the freedom to practice religion that has been historically afforded in this Country) for the Government to be forcing Catholics into this position.
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iloveangels
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Jim, it will really surprise me if these big hospitals & universities shut down. I don’t think any such thing is going to happen and I’m not sure the bishops can make it happen. There’s too much money involved and these things don’t really even belong to the Church. The federal government knows that. I"m not sure Catholics do–in fact, I’m pretty sure most Catholics don’t know that the Church doesn’t really own them. Rather, these big institutions are going to have to be told by the bishops that they will either comply with Church teaching or be disaffiliated with the Catholic Church. If the bishops don’t demand this, then they will be complying with the mandate.
Many of these big institutions are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Some of them have been doing that for many years and getting away with it. Why? Because they are more like the general population than they are like the Church. They hire many non-Catholics and they serve non-Catholics. Catholicism is no longer the main reason they exist. God is no longer the main reason they exist. They moved away from that many years ago. They are identical in many regards to all other hospitals and universities.
If you see things shut down, they will in all likelihood be smaller things–at the diocesan or parish level, I think. Soup kitchens and the like. And maybe some private businesses will shut down for business reasons. This is where the real injustice of the HHS mandate is.
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iloveangels
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Are many of these institutions really Catholic?
Will they not comply? Do they not already comply?
Are you really reading posts? I think you might just be arguing what you want to be true, without taking into consideration what really has happened. forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10145449&postcount=155
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iloveangels
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I think you might be surprised to find that many of these institutions don’t regard this as pain and suffering.
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=16433
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HansTrappist
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You lost me with the “are many of these institutions really Catholic” remark.
Again, I ask you: how are Catholics “imposing their will” on others?
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iloveangels
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Have you even read the posts in this thread?
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HansTrappist
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Closing down Catholic hospitals thus forcing many to lose their jobs and health benefits at a time when many families are on a tight budget, is not a form of pain and suffering?
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iloveangels
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They’re probably not going to close down, HansTrappist. The Church doesn’t really own them, you know.Closing down Catholic hospitals thus forcing many to lose their jobs and health benefits at a time when many families are on a tight budget, is not a form of pain and suffering?
It remains an open question whether they will be allowed to have contraception and abortion coverage in their insurance plans and still remain affiliated with the Church. The USCCB says no. We shall see.
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HansTrappist
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Yes, of course I have read this thread.
In post # 157 of this thread, you asserted:
…“Catholics are going to get curb-kicked until they learn what it means to have a religion and follow it without trying to impose it on other people against their wills”
So, again I ask you a simple question: how are Catholics “imposing their will” on others “against their will”? Please give concrete examples. Thank You.
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iloveangels
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The next line of my post is: “If Catholics continue to provoke them over moral issues that they don’t even obey, the general public is going to react.”
“That they don’t even obey” meaning that Catholics don’t even obey. We don’t even obey our own teachings and yet we carry on with the general public about what they do. This isn’t going to work. You have to know that.
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HansTrappist
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Most Catholic hospitals were founded by Catholic religious communities and operate on a non-profit basis.
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HansTrappist
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Yes, I know that.
Lets answer one question at a time, shall we?
Once you answer exactly how Catholics are “imposing their will” on others “against their will” then I will know what you mean when you assert that Catholics are “provoking” them.
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iloveangels
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And are no longer operated by those communities, who are gone or too aged to work in them, but rather by lay boards which may or may not be Catholic. In addition they hire mostly non-Catholics, serve many, many non-Catholics and no longer have primarily a religious purpose, but a secular one.
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iloveangels
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We have hired a great many non-Catholics under agreements that offer them regular insurance which covers contraception because they demand regular insurance that covers contraception. We have done it to compete, because our purpose is secular. This has been going on for years.
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iloveangels
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You just watch and see what happens, come August. In fact, watch rolling up to that. You’re going to be surprised. Search Gonzaga in this forum for a preview. I have not heard a peep from the bishop of Spokane on this. I don’t know whether he will allow this or not. If he allows it, he is complying with Obamacare. But it just happened – we shall see.
And when the next crisis rolls around, it’s going to be even nastier. We are really, really compromised on that one and the general population knows it.
And when the next crisis rolls around, it’s going to be even nastier. We are really, really compromised on that one and the general population knows it.
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HansTrappist
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Wrong on all counts.
You meant to say:
- Are operated, not for profit, by those communities and administered by a board.
- Not too aged to work in them, and even the aged members of these religious communities are still active in the day to day operations.
- We founded on and continue to have primarily a Catholic purpose.
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HansTrappist
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iloveangels
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No. The average age of Catholic sisters in the US is 76. Most of them are no longer involved in the running of these institutions.
Not so. If you actually take the time to read these articles, you will see that those days are over.
catholic.org/health/story.php?id=42512
collegium.org/agb.htm
Then they will not mind paying the fines and falling into line with the Church. You just watch how many do in the coming months. Search Gonzaga in this forum for a preview of coming attractions.
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iloveangels
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