Special request from US Bishops!

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By the way in those “allegorical” apparitions, Blessed Mary is constantly calling us to pray and support our shepherds (our bishops and priests). We should.

God bless you.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t pray. We should always pray.

I’m saying that papering this thing over with a lot of allegory is probably about as much missing the point as mistaking this for politics. There are objective long-standing problems here that need fixing. And when the general populace, who’s not even Catholic, can point them out to you as Catholics, then you know they’re big and blaring.

Catholics can’t beg God to help them with one side of their mouths and get themselves into trouble with the other side of their mouths at the same time. God is not fooled.
 
But He is the God of second chances! (fortunately for me!)

I see it through the lens of the great apostasy. It was prophesied and it is now here. It took decades, and it will take a lot of prayer and fasting etc to get out of it. here ya go: It will most likely take the Triumphant of the Immaculate Heart of Mary!

God bless you.
 
But He is the God of second chances!
It’s the height of presumption to do evil things because you count on God to forgive you for it later. Because he’s such a sap? No. That’s not how it works. And you should know that.

You do the best you can, and then tell God with regrets where you failed. And then he forgives you because of your contrition and his kindness. That’s how it really works.
 
It’s the height of presumption to do evil things because you count on God to forgive you for it later. Because he’s such a sap? No. That’s not how it works. And you should know that.
That is not what I said. God is not mocked. But He is merciful when we make mistakes. His ways are not our ways. And Mercy is His greatest attribute.

God bless you.
 
…You do the best you can, and then tell God with regrets where you failed. And then he forgives you because of your contrition and his kindness. That’s how it really works.
Or you do the worst you can, and then tell God with sincere regrets you failed. And then He forgives you because of your genuine contrition and His Mercy. That’s how it really works, too.

God bless you.
 
At any rate, this thread is about the request that we pray for the problems that we have, particularly the HHS mandate problem. I have no issue with that. We should be praying.

But at the same time, I want to see them honor their word. They say they will not comply. I want to see that.
 
We are in apostasy - the great falling away mentioned by St. Paul in 2 Thessalonians… Many Catholics and other Christians believe this, as do I. And this is what Paul meant, and it is hard to live through such a thing. It is why the Pope has called for a new evangelization, a new conversion, a new awakening of the faith. Conversion is the opposite of apostasy, it is an attempt to fight the apostasy sweeping over the Christian world in so many places. It seems like evil is winning. But it wont.

Our prayer and fasting will help guide the bishops in their upcoming course of action.

God bless you!
Yes, this is what the New Evangelization is about. It’s not primarily about converting Protestants or anything like that. It’s about re-evangelizing the places that have been Christian for centuries—Europe, Latin America, North America.

European Christianity has almost completely collapsed, and that’s what’s starting to happen here too. The answer though, is not resignation or passivism. The answer is the New Evangelization, but I don’t know that the Church knows how to implement it at all. The Church has sooo many people who see no sense in putting forth any effort, and who only do things thinking they have to do them. And so many more wandering out the door out of boredom, confusion or ignorance. This has been decades in the making and probably won’t be fixed in time. 😦

Some honesty and real taking stock of who we are and who we aren’t is probably in order. American politicians may have done us more of a favor than they realize here. Although many Catholics don’t think so at the moment.
 
From the catechism, one reads of an apostasy that comes at that time. I believe, as do others, that that apostasy is here. …] I see it through the lens of the great apostasy. It was prophesied and it is now here.
I hope I am understanding this correctly, that is, I hope you are referring to the development of a religious deception external to the Church, that will bring great persecutions to the Church (CCC 675). Indeed we see that “the Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world” (CCC 676), however we are very, very far from being in the time of the great apostasy…many of the signs spoken by Christ are yet to be seen, and certainly we have seen nothing like Antichrist yet. When we see him, then we’ll know we are there. In the meanwhile, we stay close to the Church, support our bishops whether or not we like what they do and ask of us, and pray a lot.
It’s the height of presumption to do evil things because you count on God to forgive you for it later.
You are referring to Catholics in general, right? I seriously hope you are not specifically referring to bishops when you word these accusations.

And I do remind you that even Catholics who voted for the “wrong” party are not “rolling in sin” and “doing evil” for doing so…if anything, their fault is in not having informed themselves enough to understand the gravity of some issues…after all, like you pointed out, many in the Church are rather lukewarm…however, when someone who in such a severe ignorance made a choice, he cannot be accused in such a harsh way…Also, even though this is not specifically your argument, it is ridiculous to expect our shepherds to tell us who to vote for…instead, they ought to educate us in matters of faith and morals and on the consequences of supporting certain intrinsic evils, to the point that the choice, our choice, will be obvious.
The answer is the New Evangelization, but I don’t know that the Church knows how to implement it at all.
Surely Holy Church still has - but I may be mistaken, please do correct me if I’m wrong - the guidance of the Holy Spirit on these matters, right? After all, Christ chose 12 men to change the world, and even if the Church Militant is facing issues with lukewarmness (and it will only get worse, remember? “Will the Son of Man find any faith when he returns?”) we are joined in our trials and spiritual combat by the rest of the Church…it would be a very serious error to believe that only the living are in the combat and that works can do more than prayer…a very serious error, for often it is the other way around.

Let us then pay attention to the special request by our bishops and begin to do this penance and even more, if possible, because God was willing to spare Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of 10 righteous men, and He spared the already condemned Nineveh because the righteous people did penance.
 
I hope I am understanding this correctly, that is, I hope you are referring to the development of a religious deception external to the Church, that will bring great persecutions to the Church (CCC 675). Indeed we see that “the Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world” (CCC 676), however we are very, very far from being in the time of the great apostasy…many of the signs spoken by Christ are yet to be seen, and certainly we have seen nothing like Antichrist yet. When we see him, then we’ll know we are there. In the meanwhile, we stay close to the Church, support our bishops whether or not we like what they do and ask of us, and pray a lot.
I think you’re talking to beehumble here, as I have no opinion on this right now, other than that it seems rather remote to me right this minute. Catholics like high drama. Hard work, not so much.
You are referring to Catholics in general, right? I seriously hope you are not specifically referring to bishops when you word these accusations.
Actually you have taken this completely out of context. This was a comment from a conversation between beehumble and I earlier.
And I do remind you that even Catholics who voted for the “wrong” party are not “rolling in sin” and “doing evil” for doing so…if anything, their fault is in not having informed themselves enough to understand the gravity of some issues…after all, like you pointed out, many in the Church are rather lukewarm…however, when someone who in such a severe ignorance made a choice, he cannot be accused in such a harsh way…Also, even though this is not specifically your argument, it is ridiculous to expect our shepherds to tell us who to vote for…instead, they ought to educate us in matters of faith and morals and on the consequences of supporting certain intrinsic evils, to the point that the choice, our choice, will be obvious.
Again out of context. I wasn’t talking about politics at all. What’s happened has happened.
Surely Holy Church still has - but I may be mistaken, please do correct me if I’m wrong - the guidance of the Holy Spirit on these matters, right? After all, Christ chose 12 men to change the world, and even if the Church Militant is facing issues with lukewarmness (and it will only get worse, remember? “Will the Son of Man find any faith when he returns?”) we are joined in our trials and spiritual combat by the rest of the Church…it would be a very serious error to believe that only the living are in the combat and that works can do more than prayer…a very serious error, for often it is the other way around.

Let us then pay attention to the special request by our bishops and begin to do this penance and even more, if possible, because God was willing to spare Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of 10 righteous men, and He spared the already condemned Nineveh because the righteous people did penance.
The Holy Spirit actually doesn’t send finished lesson plans out for us to follow. We have to figure those out for ourselves, and currently the Church isn’t too good at it. Many Catholics are abysmally ignorant of their religion as a result. That’s about 1/2 the problem right there.
 
Thank you so much for saying this. I am still very conflicted about my vote, and yes, it was for obama, but i certainly didn’t vote for him in order to further abortion, etc. But i know i definitely didn’t wan’t romney in there…and i think that would have devastated out social programs. i pray for a candidate who is both socially conservative, but liberal with doing the right thing for the “least among us”.
Thank you. You are the type of voter I’m talking about. I certainly don’t put you in the pro-abortion camp. And I’m sure you see these defenseless babies as the least among us, otherwise you wouldn’t be conflicted. You sound like my mom.
 
@iloveangels: that latest post of yours is literally the one I have most appreciated. Thank you!
 
Fallen away Catholics do not listen to bishops. The bishops realize now that the only recourse is daily prayer and fasting - it has come to this, the last remedy, given to us by the Mother of God herself, the Pope, and the bishops. The very call of these bishops to this remedy is a dire warning to us…

I don’t recall the USCCB expressing, as a group, its political opinion? Moral opinions, yes. Political, no.
Maybe if we start over with this…….we are being asked by the bishops to pray and fast for religious freedom. Why is religious freedom being threatened? By the legislative actions taken by an over-reaching government which our bishops completely supported on a political plane, until all the noxious details came out which we now know threaten our freedom of conscience and is opposed to all Catholics believe regarding life. We are not arguing the need to fast and pray……we are contending that the bishops promoted specific political leftist ideology which is beyond their area of proficiency.

Not only that, a quick look at the earlier encyclicals will show that JP II, for instance, did not advocate for a welfare state but upheld the fundamental principle of subsidiarity. Now we have a system which enables the federal bureaucracy to monitor the necessary healthcare needs (life issues) without benefit of any moral consideration and one that would leave us helpless in the hands of a centralized, secular government which is totally unconcerned about the dignity and primacy of the human person. Actually, I believe the bishops have spoken against the Constitution itself which leaves many issues in the hands of the states and whose original intent was limited government. They have also issued general statements about immigration, gun control and the economy – all areas of prudential judgment and not specific church teaching. As our spiritual leaders, they are delving into areas that, as we can now see, are very harmful to us and ones (as Cardinal Dulles said) they are not competent to judge. JP II once told the bishops during the ‘60’s to get out of politics in Latin America where great, great harm was being done to the Church and much heresy was seen. We are begging them to focus on catechesis instead and renew the church by their role as teachers of the faith. Evangelization, YES! We are begging for the purification of our clergy and our church in order that we ourselves might be purified. Or maybe, that’s backward as Jeremiah said -

‘Return O ye revolting children … and I will give you pastors according to My own heart’.(Jer. 3:14,15)
 
Maybe if we start over with this…….we are being asked by the bishops to pray and fast for religious freedom. Why is religious freedom being threatened? By the legislative actions taken by an over-reaching government which our bishops completely supported on a political plane, until all the noxious details came out which we now know threaten our freedom of conscience and is opposed to all Catholics believe regarding life. We are not arguing the need to fast and pray……we are contending that the bishops promoted specific political leftist ideology which is beyond their area of proficiency.

Not only that, a quick look at the earlier encyclicals will show that JP II, for instance, did not advocate for a welfare state but upheld the fundamental principle of subsidiarity. Now we have a system which enables the federal bureaucracy to monitor the necessary healthcare needs (life issues) without benefit of any moral consideration and one that would leave us helpless in the hands of a centralized, secular government which is totally unconcerned about the dignity and primacy of the human person. Actually, I believe the bishops have spoken against the Constitution itself which leaves many issues in the hands of the states and whose original intent was limited government. They have also issued general statements about immigration, gun control and the economy – all areas of prudential judgment and not specific church teaching. As our spiritual leaders, they are delving into areas that, as we can now see, are very harmful to us and ones (as Cardinal Dulles said) they are not competent to judge. JP II once told the bishops during the ‘60’s to get out of politics in Latin America where great, great harm was being done to the Church and much heresy was seen. We are begging them to focus on catechesis instead and renew the church by their role as teachers of the faith. Evangelization, YES! We are begging for the purification of our clergy and our church in order that we ourselves might be purified. Or maybe, that’s backward as Jeremiah said -

‘Return O ye revolting children … and I will give you pastors according to My own heart’.(Jer. 3:14,15)
Exactly so. Well said.

Ender
 
Maybe if we start over with this…….we are being asked by the bishops to pray and fast for religious freedom. Why is religious freedom being threatened? …
It’s like your father is asking you to pray for your family but you feel the need to give a tongue lashing to your father first.
 
I don’t recall the USCCB expressing, as a group, its political opinion? Moral opinions, yes. Political, no.

I think many are conflating politics with morality, because many see one political party as having more Church-based morals than the other.

The Church is the voice of God’s faith and morals in the world. In the garden, we find the tree of death (eat of the fruit of this tree and you will die) and the tree of life.

And so too we have in our ‘garden’ the culture of life, and the culture of death. One party seems to align itself more with the culture of death, and so it seems the Church is speaking against that party, but that is not the case; the Church speaks against the culture of death where ever it finds it.
God bless you.
Excellent point.
 
Not so sure of this either because you’re allegorizing everything almost past recognition.

The bishops are trying to figure out how they can get out of the mess they’ve made without: a) giving up the illusion that they actually still control all this stuff, and b) paying an arm and a leg in taxes, c) admitting they messed up, and d) actually giving up the CEO thing and going back to their dioceses and teaching the faith (which is what should have been their first priority the whole time anyway).

I don’t think they’re going to manage it, frankly. I think there’s a fair chance all of that stuff is going to happen, some of it pretty quickly.
This is complete conjecture on your part and displays a very poor attitude towards our bishops.

Many of your posts are close to scandalizing.
 
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