J
jwinch2
Guest
No worries at all. Its hard to keep things straight between orders, congregations, rules, constitutions, etc. I have trouble with it all the time.
Peace,
- Status
Peace,
I
iloveangels
Guest
I know it. It’s really complicated, and the Franciscans aren’t any help there.
There are a lot of newer groups too that I can’t figure out at all.
I had to do some of this as part of my continuing discernment to the 3rd order of St. Francis and my work with it. I had to have a more specific understanding of the Franciscan order, in order to better understand the SFO, since it has been going through so much internal social change with regard to its circumstances in the late 20th century. The rule the SFO is using was written in 1978 and the SFO has been newly (relatively) regionalized and now answers to CIOFS international instead of the various branches of friars as before.
That said, Br. JR has been really helpful to me, along with my reading, in understanding the Franciscan order better. St. Francis tends to be portrayed, even sometimes within the SFO as either a “bird-bath saint” or a flat-out political revolutionary like Che Guevarra or whatever his name was. Neither of these silly extremes is true. The reality of who he was is far more wonderful and amazing than either of those - let’s be honest - cartoons.
I
iloveangels
Guest
And my larger point, what brought all this discussion about, was the comment earlier about aligning choices with a continuum, and whether that’s PC or not. I’ll bring that post back up.
T
TrueLight
Guest
I have no idea why I got Jesuit.
I
iloveangels
Guest
This is the post I am referring to. This was a great, great comment and I’m glad Wounded Icon included it here.
This is a very important thing to understand. That morals and religious ideas don’t lay out on a “left/right” continuum like politics. Wrong continuum.
Example: So the Franciscans don’t kneel when they meet for mass. That doesn’t mean they are either progressive or conservative. That means they don’t historically do that, which is part of the Franciscan culture within the order. It’s not meant to defy anything, set any precedents (oh what an American idea) or connote anything else. Trust me, Franciscans are about as small-t traditional as a person can get if “small-t traditional” means they are faithful to the Gospel and to the Holy Catholic Church.
And so are the other old orders, if you go back to their rules and central charism. They can be trusted.
J
jwinch2
Guest
Maybe some more discernment coming your way? Are there any groups of the Ignatian Associates close by?
The Society of Jesus and St. Ignatius has always fascinated me and I was very attracted to Ignatian Spirituality. I like the idea of structured exercises that one can follow and a process of discernment that goes along with it. Dominican spirituality is a bit more nebulous and tough to nail down. This makes sense when you consider the life and education of the great saints. Ignatius was a soldier who later studied theology in a formal structured manner as part of a university system. Dominic was educated, but before the rise of universities and formalized education.
T
TrueLight
Guest
The little that I researched on Ignatian spirituality does not appeal to me at all. I also watched a retreat series on EWTN that a priest was giving to a third order.Maybe some more discernment coming your way? Are there any groups of the Ignatian Associates close by?
The Society of Jesus and St. Ignatius has always fascinated me and I was very attracted to Ignatian Spirituality. I like the idea of structured exercises that one can follow and a process of discernment that goes along with it. Dominican spirituality is a bit more nebulous and tough to nail down. This makes sense when you consider the life and education of the great saints. Ignatius was a soldier who later studied theology in a formal structured manner as part of a university system. Dominic was educated, but before the rise of universities and formalized education.
And Opus Dei as number two? Nah.
They didn’t have Carmelite Spirituality though (St Albert).
J
jwinch2
Guest
Yep. The quiz was fun, but hardly complete.
D
Duritto
Guest
wow that’s great dudes 
T
TrueLight
Guest
J
jwinch2
Guest
reported.
LOL.
A spammer without a link?
I
iloveangels
Guest
This is interesting too. I was drawn to the Dominicans, the Franciscans and the Carmelites–all three.Maybe some more discernment coming your way? Are there any groups of the Ignatian Associates close by?
The Society of Jesus and St. Ignatius has always fascinated me and I was very attracted to Ignatian Spirituality. I like the idea of structured exercises that one can follow and a process of discernment that goes along with it. Dominican spirituality is a bit more nebulous and tough to nail down. This makes sense when you consider the life and education of the great saints. Ignatius was a soldier who later studied theology in a formal structured manner as part of a university system. Dominic was educated, but before the rise of universities and formalized education.
I’m a chemist, a lover of nature and science since childhood, but also I have a graduate philosophy degree. I love to learn and for more than learning’s sake or the sake of social reward, which of course, means that I believe that there is more than circumstance in this world. I became Christian and Catholic because of how that informed the experiences I’ve had with other people, my Catholic school year, my family, my friends, my beliefs about people and their circumstances, the natural world that surrounds me and praises the Lord day & night, etc. Long story. I’m a convert.
I have a Carmelite friend who helped me with prayer difficulties along the way, but I’m not really a Carmelite. I lack something there that’s more than made up for in other ways, I guess, ways that point me in more of a Franciscan direction.
I am very open-ended and don’t understand how to do “programs” very well. I tend to delve too much into them. I learn what I’m not supposed to learn, and don’t learn what I’m supposed to learn.
Which makes me a good scientist and inventor but a lousy program-follower. [It also made me an absolutely miserable 7th grader, which is why I got ported off to the nuns in the first place–to straighten me out. God always has a design in these things.]
T
TrueLight
Guest
Me too!
I
iloveangels
Guest
Nice. Hello, fellow traveler!Me too!
I
iloveangels
Guest
I agree. It’s for fun, I think.
And TrueLight, if it’s any comfort, I scored high on Opus Dei and the Jesuits too, although I have no idea why either. Me watching Jesuits is like watching paint dry.
I went on an Ignatian retreat one time. Hmm.
J
jwinch2
Guest
Agreed. The idea that a few yes/no questions are going to be able to pin down the spiritual approach that best fits your personality is not remotely plausible. At the end of the day, it is about God’s call anyway.
I
iloveangels
Guest
This is 100% true. It’s God’s call.
J
JReducation
Guest
You have to be careful. To the best of my knowledge, the Capuchins in Morgon are not part of the Capuchin Friars Minor. They never were. They be suspended. If that is the case, then they do not have canonical authority to to start an SFO.
The SFO constitutions are clear that the SFO must be erected by the Regional Minister with the consent of the local bishop in the diocese where they erection is going to take place.
I believe that’s another problem with the Capuchins in Morgon, they never received permission from the Minister General of the Capuchins to use the name, Capuchin nor permission from the local bishop to erect a religious community in his diocese.
You may want to ask some questions about them. To the best of my knowledge, they operate under the aegis of the SSPX, which has no canonical authority. Even if the SSPX had a canonical place in the Church, the name Capuchin and Franciscan properly belongs to the Franciscan family and those under that name must be governed by that family.
The glitch here is that the rule is very specific. The Minister General has to be a canonically elected successor of St. Francis. Francis states this in the rule. Pope Honorius sealed it with a papal bull and this has never been changed. The first question is whether their superior has canonical jurisdiction. In other words, is he a canonically elected successor of St. Francis? Only the Holy See or the General Minister can grant permission for such an election.
I’d be curious to know if they have canonical status and if these Capuchins are recognized by the Minister General of the Capuchins. This is all that I’ve heard about them. But things change. There are many communities that were nor in communion with the Church whose status has changed, such as the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer (FSsR).
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
R
RogerDeCourcy
Guest
I think I read on here somewhere that it’s the Church which decides if you have a vocation.
Like, some women think they have a call to be a priest(ess).
Actually, when I think about it, it’s quite mad. A female priest is a priestess. It’s quite a mindless desire, when you stand back from it. Even the neo-pagans call a spade a spade.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
This is a seriously flawed quiz as the only options are the 6 you have listed.Here’s a Catholic Spirituality Selector quiz for fun.
Here are my results.
Code:1. Benedictine 2. Franciscan 3.Missionaries of Charity 4.Dominican 5. Opus Dei 6.Jesuit
I am offended that Carmelite is not an option. - Status