SPLIT: From Fatima...Images & the Salvation of Catholics

  • Thread starter Thread starter newbie1234
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
newbie1234 said:
Ok I cannot produce a document.
But wasn’t there a petition among marion followers to make mary coredemptrix. And wasn’t it signed by thousands of people. So if the church received this petition wouldn’t they have at least considered it?
I may be wrong if so I retract the statement.
You have made it clear.
You don’t pray to statues.
You don’t worship Mary.
You don’t worship saints.
Kneeling before a statue is not worship.
Saying the Rosary is an honor to God.
I understand.
Click to expand...
If a petition is brought before Church officials they are obliged to ackowledge it and take it into account, just like any secular government is obligated to consider any petition (even the most misguided) that is brought before it.

Doesn’t mean they agree with the sentiments of the petition in the slightest(obviously they didn’t, since Mary hasn’t BEEN declared co-redemptrix) or that they will do so in the future.
 
newbie1234 said:
Ok I cannot produce a document.
But wasn’t there a petition among marion followers to make mary coredemptrix. And wasn’t it signed by thousands of people. So if the church received this petition wouldn’t they have at least considered it?
I may be wrong if so I retract the statement.
You have made it clear.
You don’t pray to statues.
You don’t worship Mary.
You don’t worship saints.
Kneeling before a statue is not worship.
Saying the Rosary is an honor to God.
I understand.
Click to expand...
Just because something is discussed by the church does not make it dogma.
Like I said, get the facts. 👍
 
Eschato said:
It’s an atrocity that alot of the “cradle” Catholics throw away the fullness of this spiritual house because they want to eat pork on Ash Wednesday.
Click to expand...
[SIGN]I’d agree with that![/SIGN]
 
Church_Militant said:
Don’t try to put words in my mouth Newb, that’s not what I said. I am saying that for whatever reason, they have misled you and you bought into it all just because they showed you some Bible verses. Listen to this Bible study. (If you have the courage of your conviction.)Actually you are encouraged to do so, but without reference to the 2,000 years of Christian teaching you are still basing your beliefs on errors that have only been in existence for some 500 years at best and also leaning on your own understanding. What does Proverbs 3:5 say about that?
**
Get the facts. Decide for yourself.**
Click to expand...
I really don’t have time to download and listen to a whole bible study at this time.
Could you just give me some scriptural context to Read?
Are you saying that I must check out the 2000yrs of church teaching before I read my bible and lean on my own understanding of the text?
 
newbie1234 said:
I am sorry. Could you tell me where I could find this in my bible?
Are mystics viable sorces of God’s Revelation?
Click to expand...
No they are not, but they are at least as subjectively worth consideration as any of the baseless assertions you have made Newb. 🙂

What have we not refuted from you so far?
 
newbie1234 said:
I am sorry. Could you tell me where I could find this in my bible?
Are mystics viable sorces of God’s Revelation?
Click to expand...
Christian mystics? Yes, like Apostle John, and the other 11 Apostles yes.

"For this was the reason why the good news of Jesus was given even to the dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but might be living before God in the spirit."1 Peter 4:6 refers to Jesus going to Limbo after he died on the Cross.

Matthew Chapter 27 verse 51-52, And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. refers to saints being raised by Jesus.
 
newbie1234 said:
I really don’t have time to download and listen to a whole bible study at this time.
Could you just give me some scriptural context to Read?
Are you saying that I must check out the 2000yrs of church teaching before I read my bible and lean on my own understanding of the text?
Click to expand...
Start with things like the Catechism, which more neatly summarise our beliefs and save you plenty of legwork 👍
 
You have made it clear.
You don’t pray to statues.
You don’t worship Mary.
You don’t worship saints.
Kneeling before a statue is not worship.
Saying the Rosary is an honor to God.
I understand.
Click to expand...
Well, I certainly hope you do, now.
We don’t pray to statues. We pray to living saints in the company of our Lord in heaven, asking THEM to glorify HIM along with us.
We don’t worship Mary. We honor her above every other ‘creature’ (since she is no god or goddess) because that is what God Himself did–He honored her above all creatures by choosing her to be mother of our beloved Savior and Lord, Jesus. We follow God most closely in doing so.
We don’t worship saints. Worship is for God alone. Honor, of course, is for all who have shown themselves worthy of being honored, and saints have been “washed in the Blood of the Lamb”. Do you not even ‘honor your father and mother?’ That’s a commandment.
Kneeling before a statue? We kneel in the presence of the LORD and any prayers to saints (not statues) are prayers asking them to praise, honor, worship and glorify God with us. Do you never stand with your fellows at church together and praise God?
Saying the rosary is an honor to God, who chose the Virgin Mary to bear the Savior of the World; to God, who sent His angel Gabriel to announce, “Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. …”; to God, to whom in thanksgiving and praise his servant Elizabeth greets Mary with “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. . .”; to God, who made holy the vessel in which His Son was carried as He made holy the Ark of the Covenant; to God, who made Mary the “Mother of God the Son”; to God, who commands us to pray for ourselves and others as “the prayer of a righteous man availeth much”; to God, who is the sole arbitor of our salvation and our sole judge, before whom we will appear at the hour of our death. There you go–the whole rosary gives honor, and glory, and praise, and thanks, to God, the Almighty; God who is Father, Son, and Spirit. Praise to God!
 
newbie1234 said:
I really don’t have time to download and listen to a whole bible study at this time.
Could you just give me some scriptural context to Read?
Are you saying that I must check out the 2000yrs of church teaching before I read my bible and lean on my own understanding of the text?
Click to expand...
You do have time. It’s an hour (maybe) that you will spend on your comp any way…considering the amount of time you have spent on this thread so far. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Listen to the study by my friend John Martignoni. His notes are HERE. and you’ll need both. If you are so interested in sharing the truth with others then I challenge you to make this effort before going further in any efforts to evangelize Catholics. You expect us to search the scriptures, you should have the same committment to truth that you ask of us Newb.

Get the facts. Decide for yourself.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Christian mystics? Yes, like Apostle John, and the other 11 Apostles yes.

"For this was the reason why the good news of Jesus was given even to the dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but might be living before God in the spirit."1 Peter 4:6 refers to Jesus going to Limbo after he died on the Cross.

Matthew Chapter 27 verse 51-52, And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. refers to saints being raised by Jesus.
Click to expand...
So after the Apostle John died in ad95, there have been other people that God spoke through in order to give us His divine revelation including St Catherine as you have already quoted from this mystic?
 
newbie1234 said:
So after the Apostle John died in ad95
Click to expand...
, there have been other people that God spoke through in order to give us His divine revelation including St Catherine as you have already quoted from this mystic?John couldn’t’ve died in 95, he wrote Revelation in 99.
 
newbie1234 said:
So after the Apostle John died in ad95, there have been other people that God spoke through in order to give us His divine revelation including St Catherine as you have already quoted from this mystic?
Click to expand...
St. Ann Catherine Emmerich’s vision can be believed, but its not required. Her account does fill in a lot of gaps in the Bible, but its book is has a lot of symbolism in it.

I don’t believe most her accounts, but some of it does make sense.

Final revelation ended when John the Apostle died. No new revelation came about.

The private revelation approved by the Church are carefully reviewed to make sure it does not contradict Scripture, and the teachings of the Church.

St. Catherine Anne Emmerich’s vision didn’t add anything new and I don’t think her visions is approved.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Well, I certainly hope you do, now.
We don’t pray to statues. We pray to living saints in the company of our Lord in heaven, asking THEM to glorify HIM along with us.
We don’t worship Mary. We honor her above every other ‘creature’ (since she is no god or goddess) because that is what God Himself did–He honored her above all creatures by choosing her to be mother of our beloved Savior and Lord, Jesus. We follow God most closely in doing so.
We don’t worship saints. Worship is for God alone. Honor, of course, is for all who have shown themselves worthy of being honored, and saints have been “washed in the Blood of the Lamb”. Do you not even ‘honor your father and mother?’ That’s a commandment.
Kneeling before a statue? We kneel in the presence of the LORD and any prayers to saints (not statues) are prayers asking them to praise, honor, worship and glorify God with us. Do you never stand with your fellows at church together and praise God?
Saying the rosary is an honor to God, who chose the Virgin Mary to bear the Savior of the World; to God, who sent His angel Gabriel to announce, “Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. …”; to God, to whom in thanksgiving and praise his servant Elizabeth greets Mary with “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. . .”; to God, who made holy the vessel in which His Son was carried as He made holy the Ark of the Covenant; to God, who made Mary the “Mother of God the Son”; to God, who commands us to pray for ourselves and others as “the prayer of a righteous man availeth much”; to God, who is the sole arbitor of our salvation and our sole judge, before whom we will appear at the hour of our death. There you go–the whole rosary gives honor, and glory, and praise, and thanks, to God, the Almighty; God who is Father, Son, and Spirit. Praise to God!
Click to expand...
So actually we believe the same thing.
As a Christian:
I do not have to have statues in my house or church.
I do not have to kneel or pray to statues.
I do not have to pray to mary or ask for her intervention.
I do not have to ask saints for intervention.
When my church shares communion we are partaking in the body and blood of Christ.
I do not have to go to a confessional to repent of my sins. I can go directly to God.
We are in accord. Problem solved!
 
Mannyfit75 said:
St. Ann Catherine Emmerich’s vision can be believed, but its not required. Her account does fill in a lot of gaps in the Bible, but its book is has a lot of symbolism in it.

I don’t believe most her accounts, but some of it does make sense.

Final revelation ended when John the Apostle died. No new revelation came about.

The private revelation approved by the Church are carefully reviewed to make sure it does not contradict Scripture, and the teachings of the Church.

St. Catherine Anne Emmerich’s vision didn’t add anything new and I don’t think her visions is approved.
Click to expand...
So to be a Christian, I don’t have to espouse any revelation given to anybody after the canon was closed after Johns death in 99ad.?
 
newbie,

The movie the Passion of Christ was based on St. Anne Catherine Emmerich

If you want to take a look at it go ahead.

sacred-texts.com/chr/pjc/index.htm

I read a the book and finished it. It helps with spiritual grow but overall, it does contain a lot of Catholic themes. I believe some of it but not all of it.

I question some of the details of the Last Supper which much doubt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top