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hoosierdaddy
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All that eventually became the New Testament. It hadn’t all been written down yet. But now it has been.
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
(Edited by Moderator)
Do you know what? If you manage to convince anyone it says more about their gullibility than the glory of God, the work of the Holy Spirit or any ability on your part either!
But why would you say that? If we manage to convince anyone of the truth, it IS due to the work of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God. Surely you know this???
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
In the words of “Philthy”, thank you for showing us the fruit of salvation by your words.
How would you like it if I said something equivalent to that about you? sigh
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
I love the Lord
I love the Word
I love the Brethren
Those are the signs. And God is not a liar. He said I was sealed with the Holy Spirit at the moment of my salvation and that is the GUARANTEE of my eternal life. Thank God for Scripture eh?
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hoosierdaddy
Guest
This is just not true. You will ALWAYS have the Holy Spirit within you if you ARE saved. The Holy Spirit never leaves you. I’m a bit upset that you said “you can have the Holy Spirit again if you return (to the Church and confess your sins to a priest)”. That is unbiblical and false. Much as you seem like a nice person I could not let this go unchallenged.
John 7: The Promise of the Holy Spirit
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
Acts 2
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
God does not take gifts back.
1 Corinthians 6
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body[a] and in your spirit, which are God’s.
Ephesians 1
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Passages from biblegateway.com There are many more. You do not lose the Holy Spirit. Ever.
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hoosierdaddy
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This is not directed at me but I wanted to comment on your question.
There is only one truth but I believe there are different aspects to it. Take salvation for example. It is a proven fact I believe that both Catholics and Protestants really don’t understand the other’s position. We think you guys believe in faith PLUS works while you guys think we believe in a mere intellectual assent, all is good, I can do what I want now kind of faith. Both sides are wrong about the other.
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valient_Lucy
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2 tim 3:16 says ALL Scripture, NOT only Scripture. He doesn’t say that ONLY Scripture is God breathed.
Besides, given that the NT was not compiled at the writing of this letter, Paul is most likely talking about the OT, not the OT and the NT.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
No, not agreed, since this is a false dichotomy. Catholics do not believe that it is Oral Tradtions vs. The Bible. It is BOTH Oral Traditions AND The Bible.
If you were living in Ephesus in the first century, and Paul came to your church and told you to do something, but he did not write it down, would you still follow it? Or would you wait for him to write it down before you followed it?
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Eschato
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That isn’t the point. The point is that the action is taken based on the faith of the child’s parents. Same thing with baptism. Your doctrine of not baptizing infants is actually extrabiblical.
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hoosierdaddy
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Not so. See, the Bible nowhere COMMANDS us to baptize infants. I am different than the normal Baptist though where I don’t believe it matters. I was baptized again but even if I hadn’t been it would not matter. The fact is I was baptized when I was an infant and I came to faith when I was older. Both “requirements” so to speak were fulfilled. Baptism is a good thing but does the timing of it REALLY matter in the overall scheme of things? I don’t think so.
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noma
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I wouldn’t call it hostile, but I would say that I will never be Catholic again. I may change in my views about the Catholic Church, and depending on what I have learned and will learn, may choose the Orthodox faith, or some Protestant faith. But I will not be Catholic again.
Concerning the “sola scriptura” problem, the Orthodox Church is one answer. Protestant Church is another, if one is to accept that we know Scripture only by our faith, and so can never be completely certain that we have Scripture. We trust that the Holy Spirit has granted us Truth in most things, and we pray for His mercy in the areas we lack.
So I have not decided anything yet, except a few groups I will not be part of (Catholic, Calvinist, United Pentecostal, any group that cannot say the Nicene Creed).
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noma
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Newbie,
I must say one thing for you. I admire your intellectual courage. You took this issue far beyond where I would have been to cowardly to defend.
Though I do disagree with some of the answers (alright, almost all of the answers) you got to, I am very much impressed by your strength in being willing to see them challenged.
God bless you, and God bless all the Catholics on this forum also, for their search toward what makes better sense.
I must say one thing for you. I admire your intellectual courage. You took this issue far beyond where I would have been to cowardly to defend.
Though I do disagree with some of the answers (alright, almost all of the answers) you got to, I am very much impressed by your strength in being willing to see them challenged.
God bless you, and God bless all the Catholics on this forum also, for their search toward what makes better sense.
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thistle
Guest
Am I missing something because I haven’t read some earlier posts?
We (Catholics) say the Nicene Creed at Mass so why do you include us in your grouping of those who do not say it.
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Eireann
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hoosierdaddy
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I myself say creeds but they are not Scripture. They are statements summarized from Scripture but they are not Scripture. So what’s the big deal about creeds?
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water
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This thread was originally a discussion about Fatima, but it goes beyond that - there are probably more than 10 topics being discussed in this thread. Starting out “Catholics worshiping Mary”…
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dbacks5439
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So if St. Paul can refer to something that hasn’t been written down, why can’t we do the same? Also, Tradition (with a big T) was just proven by this statement. Sacred Tradition is what preserved the sayings of Jesus, and the Acts of the Apostles until they were written down well after Jesus rose again. Jesus rose c. 29-33 AD, and the Gospel of Mark, the earliest Gospel to be written, was not written till c. 70 AD. That’s a 40 year gap. How were they preserved if only by mouth? (bell dings). That’s right, it’s the Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit not only inspires writers, but speakers as well. How did the early Church between 30-70AD function without the New Testament? BTW, where did we get the idea of the Trinity? Not in the Bible. So how did we arrive at the Trinity?
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dbacks5439
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There should be a big deal about the Nicene Creed, or any creed for that matter. Catholic Church came up with them. The Creeds mention the Trinity, which is not found anywhere in the Bible, but because of Sacred Tradition, we believe in it. Also, the Apostle’s Creed talks of Purgatory and praying for the dead and praying to the living saints. So yes, you should have a huge problem as a protestant with this.
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MariaG
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New thread and topic. But maybe you could make one and show me where in scripture it tells you it has all been written down now?
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hoosierdaddy
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Maybe I could. Forgive me if I don’t though. I’ll think about it. I don’t understand though, why you guys haven’t come across that concept in reading the Bible. If we have, how come you haven’t?
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