SPLIT: Here is what we Christians have a problem with, concerning Catholic doctrines:

[water]

THANK YOU FOR THAT. I love it when Christians know their scripture.

Don’t like your pride get you.

This might help you about repetition in Heaven

"God’s love endures forever!"

Find out yourself - it’s in the Bible.

 

[estesbob]

Oh, am certainly not inferring that I am perfect…of course not! I am simply comparing repetitious prayer ?!

I am curious. When was the one and only time you said Lords Prayer? Or are you perhaps saving it up for a special occassion?

 

[HJProtestant]

One more thing…

I noticed a people state that praying the Rosary allows them to hear God as well. I think that is a valid argument. However, I have been exposed to many, many Catholics and I just don’t see this with the majority (of the ones I know).

 

[HJProtestant]

Skelly must really hate “praise music”—is there anything more repetitive than THAT?

LOL! I think it depends which church you attend. I have been to churches that sing the same thing over and over and over (which really bores me and I tend to “check out”) and others that sing straight from the hymnal with no variations. I prefer something in between

 

[Ani_Ibi]

HJProtestant:

One more thing… I noticed a people state that praying the Rosary allows them to hear God as well. I think that is a valid argument.

That was me and it wasn’t an argument. It was a statement of my own experience.

However, I have been exposed to many, many Catholics and I just don’t see this with the majority (of the ones I know).

How many? And what is your point? Please?

 

[HJProtestant]

I am curious. When was the one and only time you said Lords Prayer? Or are you perhaps saving it up for a special occassion?

OK, don’t laugh…the last time I prayed the Lord’s prayer was at a Catholic wedding in March You make a good point, and I think maybe I should incorporate it more into my prayer life.

I think the vast majority of Protestants (correct me if I’m wrong) pull the Lord’s prayer from Matthew where Jesus states “Pray LIKE this” instead of Luke where He states, “When you pray, SAY THIS” (caps mine)

 

[Church_Militant]

OK, so a few of you have readily admitted to “mind wandering” while repeating prayers…let me just tell you, this has NEVER happened to me while I speak to God. I am thoroughly intent on saying what my heart feels in adoration, confession, thanksgiving and petition of God. I revere them to be some of the most important words that come out of my mouth and I dare not use them in vain.

Yet this is no indictment of the Rosary and my prayer life is more vital and powerful than it ever was as an n-C. Oh…and I was pentecostal and I found it more like a circus than worship. I have done all that one can do in tongues and then some. I am no longer involved in pentecostal/charismatic groups.

Also, it is through this type of prayer that the Holy Spirit has spoken through me. What an amazing experience this is! Is this type of blessed experience possible when one’s mouth is on auto pilot? This is not a rhetorical question…I would really like to know if you believe this.

My mouth is never on autopilot. If the Lord has anything for me to say to anyone, the Holy Spirit gives me the right words and wisdom. I don’t have to speak in tongues.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

LOL! I think it depends which church you attend. I have been to churches that sing the same thing over and over and over (which really bores me and I tend to “check out”) and others that sing straight from the hymnal with no variations. I prefer something in between

Charismatic prayer meetings are frequently very repetitive because the folks are praying, singing, dancing in the Spirit. It is a restful and glorious experience for those of us who are in the Spirit. But some onlookers tend to get bored.

I know someone asked me what Charismatic Catholics are and I am too beat from today to reply in depth. Just suffice it to say that there were 3 pentacostal revivals. One of those was in the Catholic Church. JP2 approved of it and my cardinal-elect is a charismatic. There was a big conference here in Toronto.

 

[estesbob]

OK, don’t laugh…the last time I prayed the Lord’s prayer was at a Catholic wedding in March You make a good point, and I think maybe I should incorporate it more into my prayer life.

I think the vast majority of Protestants (correct me if I’m wrong) pull the Lord’s prayer from Matthew where Jesus states “Pray LIKE this” instead of Luke where He states, “When you pray, SAY THIS” (caps mine)

Oh-so do no tpray repetitious prayers unless your personal interpretation of Scripture tells you its OK?

It seems like you are following the first rule of Sola Scriptura-Scripture is to be interpreted literally unless such interpretation supports catholic Doctrine.

 

[MrS]

Catholics understand that the greatest prayer and also a form of worship - is the Mass. They are combined… both/and… not either/or. That too is a big difference in much of theology… Catholics have both/and, and non-Catholics limit themselves to a lot of either/or.

Anyway…

Our Mass reaches a highlight at the time of Consecration. And the words include “…as often as you do this…”

Do we simple folk ignore the Lord for His very instructions to the Apostles???

[a] perhaps yes if it was just for them, the first priests of the Catholic Church, and not for the rest of us.

** perhaps no if we understand that Scripture won’t contradict itself, so the OP must have a faulty understanding of “vain”

either way… I will take that repitition daily.**

 

[Church_Militant]

Oh, am certainly not inferring that I am perfect…of course not! I am simply comparing repetitious prayer that can be done on auto-pilot completing disengaged with our conscious mind

and the style of prayer that I believe is Biblical which demands my full attention because I am actively thinking about my words.Then you are comparing it with a fiction and arguing against a straw man since that is not a description of the Rosary.

And now a question…what is a Charismatic Catholic? I’ve never heard the term…or was this sarcasm I didn’t pick up on?!

There are some Catholics who accept and practice the essentials of “the gifts of the Holy Spirit”. I am not one of them.

 

[Church_Militant]

One more thing…

I noticed a people state that praying the Rosary allows them to hear God as well. I think that is a valid argument. However, I have been exposed to many, many Catholics and I just don’t see this with the majority (of the ones I know).

Then you’re hanging out with someone other than me and my Catholic friends.

Don’t assume that the lowest common denominator is the norm…

 

[HJProtestant]

Then you are comparing it with a fiction and arguing against a straw man since that is not a description of the Rosary.There are some Catholics who accept and practice the essentials of “the gifts of the Holy Spirit”. I am not one of them.

Wow…this is eye opening! I had no idea there was any such thing. I am learning that like Protestantism, Catholics have all sorts of flavors, too. So, do you still think all these flavors are still under the umbrella of one “true Church”? Or perhaps you believe like I do that each person, no matter what church they go to, will be judged by God individually. We won’t be wearing signs on our chests that say, “Catholic” or “Baptist” or “Pentecostal”. God will simply judge us according to our faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[dingyboatman]

No worries that her position would be taken for mainstream Protestantism, but you raise a really interesting point: do Protestants forbid heresy?

“prosparity” preaching is heresy.

most protestants have some vague notion that there is a limit to what is an exceptable difference of opinion. those who are informed are strong on the doctrine that salvation comes from the grace of God through the incarnation, death, and resurection of Christ. it is received by faith leading to a life that is transformed to godliness in the power of the spirit. 1 corr 15, titus 2:14 romans chapters1-8 galations 5:16-25, john 3:1-21
ephesians 2:10

Most protestants/evangelicals are disilusioned with the notion that there is a particular institution with a visible political form that constitutes the one true sect of Christianity and any claim to such often meets with immediate dismissal. rather the true catholic church is typically considered to be all those who are reconciled to God through Christ. they recognize one another by their faith and by fellowship in the spirit not by the sect they most frequently attend. luke 17:20, 1john 1:1-10,7

examples of heretical sects from all protestant viewpoints so far as I know would be mormonism, jehova’s whitnesses, etc.

I should point out that catholics also have matters of dogma–which are considered infallable, pastoral council which would be considered strong advice, and also things that are more or less controversial such as the apparition of Mary at medjugoria which catholics are free to affirm or deny.

from outside, the catholic church looks more fractured to me than protestantism. differences between the roman catholic church, the church of england, and the orthadox church seem so minute to me that it would seem we could catogorize them all as catholic splits.that does’nt say that there is’nt some way to tell which is the original. depending on where you are in the world the the popular beliefs of catholics take on a form that is camoflauged with local religion–animism in latin america, and evangelicalism or pluralism in the US. In italy 20 percent of italians who claim to be catholic also deny the existence of God. I realize this is not the authentic form, but it is the normally variable image. centuries of ignorance about history causes a great deal of borrowed resentment for reformers and non-christians who are believed to have been persecuted by civil authorities without catholic objection and thus the catholic church is seen to share in the blood. personally I have met to my knowledge fewer than 5 catholics who seemed to be living a christian lifestyle, most that I have met are shamelessly immoral and profane. of course, that’s just because they are hypocrites and it does’nt mean the authentic form is false. however, all this inconsistancy of practice makes the disilusioned protestant doubt there is anything better to be had in catholocism–especially when they are so far from God they resort to entrusting their prayers to his human mother.

 

[HJProtestant]

Then you’re hanging out with someone other than me and my Catholic friends.

Don’t assume that the lowest common denominator is the norm…

Apparently so…but, man, there sure are a lot of low denominators out there! Hard to overlook them…especially since I’m related to LOTS of them!

 

[Black_Knight]

Apparently so…but, man, there sure are a lot of low denominators out there! Hard to overlook them…especially since I’m related to LOTS of them!

The same could probably be said about many of our n-C acquaintances.

 

[HJProtestant]

“prosparity” preaching is heresy.

from outside, the catholic church looks more fractured to me than protestantism. differences between the roman catholic church, the church of england, and the orthadox church seem so minute to me that it would seem we could catogorize them all as catholic splits.that does’nt say that there is’nt some way to tell which is the original. depending on where you are in the world the the popular beliefs of catholics take on a form that is camoflauged with local religion–animism in latin america, and evangelicalism or pluralism in the US. In italy 20 percent of italians who claim to be catholic also deny the existence of God. I realize this is not the authentic form, but it is the normally variable image. centuries of ignorance about history causes a great deal of borrowed resentment for reformers and non-christians who are believed to have been persecuted by civil authorities without catholic objection and thus the catholic church is seen to share in the blood. personally I have met to my knowledge fewer than 5 catholics who seemed to be living a christian lifestyle, most that I have met are shamelessly immoral and profane. of course, that’s just because they are hypocrites and it does’nt mean the authentic form is false. however, all this inconsistancy of practice makes the disilusioned protestant doubt there is anything better to be had in catholocism–especially when they are so far from God they resort to entrusting their prayers to his human mother.

The red stuff agrees entirely with what I have been saying. Strange that there are 2 or 3 non-c’s on this thread and we have the same experiences. I have never witnessed my Catholic family
follow a Christian-like lifestyle and they are almost all very profane. Not to mention drunk Saturday night with their other Catholic buddies and in church the next morning to repent. Which begs the question, if one sins with the intent on asking for forgiveness the next morning, is the repentance genuine?

I will have to catch up with you guys tomorrow…I have to get ready to go to Bible study

 

[HJProtestant]

The same could probably be said about many of our n-C acquaintances.

Yes, sadly, you are correct.

 

[YADA]

HJProtestant and SKelly123,

My observations are that your posts [especially SKelly123’s] are very negative and judgemental. for example

let me just tell you, this has NEVER happened to me while I speak to God. I am thoroughly intent on saying what my heart feels in adoration, confession, thanksgiving and petition of God. I revere them to be some of the most important words that come out of my mouth and I dare not use them in vain.

and

***Yes, I sure do have the “audacity” to know the infinite will of God ***for the simple reason that … HE LISTS HIS WILL … right there in the Word. By the way, you sound just like those religious fanatics that used to hide the Words of Christ from commoners. HA ! Pretty funny. So okay, here we go … the will of God for all mankind, comin’ right up …

What strikes me from your posts is how you are focused upon judging another Christians heart and soul. You seem to know their relationship with our Lord and Savior better than they do… You can read what is in [or what is lacking in] their hearts and minds. You have placed yourself as the judge and the jury of right Christian fellowship with God [the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit].

In your posts, SKelly123 and HJProtestant, you are the two Christians who decide in what manner all persons are to pray. Once prayer has started, the two of you are cognizant of whether the Christians’s heart and mind has been engaged. You also know whether God feels as if it was *VAIN and REPITITIOUS. *Then, once the prayer has ended you are able to use that experience in judging prayer to classify similar prayers of other Christians as either worthy or un-worthy…

If your posts were not so ill informed and sad, I might find them rather humorous. As it is, I know many Protestant Christians, who love our Lord deeply, Praise be to God, so I realize that you are an anomally.

I hope that you will become engaged with Scripture, pray with it read it and love it. You can come to know Jesus more fully and appreciate the Church Jesus founded. Learn the faith of a community of believers who wrote down God’s inspiration, copied it, preserved it and passed it on to you.

The Church preserved these Scriptures for you so that you could come to know Jesus; not so you could come to a forum and take the Scriptures out of context and declare your superiority of faith and prayer.

Pax Christe

 

[YADA]

Most of the ‘drunks’ I have ever met have been non catholics…

ALL of the wife beaters and child beaters I have known have been non catholics…

Most of the immoral people I have known have been non-catholics…

And before you say I am picking on non catholics…I am not…I grew up in a non catholic family…

I know many faith filled Christians…many are non catholic…but most of the truly Christ centered, loving servants to mankind I have ever met are catholic with a capital C…

But as we all know generalities are just that …generalities…there are always exceptions and our classifications can be colored by our personal biases and perceptions…