SPLIT: Is Confession not necessary?

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Pigheaded – an new word to me – “stur” in German.
Yes Ralph, you slipped this time and bounced hard on your butt.

If not all our ancestors had past something along to us, we’d still be in Stone Age.
But God gave to all of our ancestors a bit more knowledge, (which they passed on) so that the growing number of people could survive and even live in comfort (if others let them).
**

 

[ralphy]

Ralph you are just being pig headed here. Do you think Christianity just died with the apostles? They passed on their authority through The Church. Go back and see how this apostolic authority was given to Mathias to replace Judas by laying on of hands. That is how the authority is passed. This is exactly how Catholic Bishops got all their apostolic authority - it was all passed down from a prior bishop all the way back to Peter.

James

So I can assume that every person who had hands laid on them from the time of the disciples up to the present have the power to heal, raise the dead,etc, or it just the top one (the pope), or has the power once held by the disciples run low or completely out. Tradition is a powerful tool, it sure keeps Roman catholics under control. The word of God will be your judge ,not tradition. Ralph

 

[CentralFLJames]

So I can assume that every person who had hands laid on them from the time of the disciples up to the present have the power to heal, raise the dead,etc, or it just the top one (the pope), or has the power once held by the disciples run low or completely out. Tradition is a powerful tool, it sure keeps Roman catholics under control. The word of God will be your judge ,not tradition. Ralph

Not just any person can “lay on hands” to pass apostolic authority Ralph. It has to be passed on from an apostle or somone they passed it on to.

You can see that this was meant to be done very deliberately and responsibly since it is a real authority that gives real spiritual authority and powers (all the authority and power associated with binding and loosing sin - which is also the same power to ordain more apostolic successors).

Here is the proof that the apostles and early bishops considered this authority to be very real and to be used very carefully on only men who they could trust:

Proof of Spiritual Authority Bestowed Through Apostolic Laying On of Hands
*1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.

Warning not to pass Apostolic Authority to Any Who are Not Worthy
1 Tim 5:22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.
*

But I must ask you why do you assume that this authority is to give the apostolic successors specific powers to raise the dead ? This is not in scripture. These were special powers given to the early church mostly to demonstrate the authority while the church was an infant and growing. These are extraordinary gifts that come by special grace when GOD wants an apostolic authority to invoke them - raising the physical dead is not a normal power but we have had this happen a few times in the middle ages church. And our priests raise from the spiritual dead DAILY those who are in mortal sin through sacramental confession and also by baptism.

Catholic priests exorcise demons every day in the confessional - that is essentially what confession is - exorcism of evil. We also have priests who specialize in exorcising nearly completed take overs of individuals by demons. We have some priests who can heal when The Holy Spirit desires to work through them - but not everyone has all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Tradition is indeed a wonderful tool of God Ralph since we have the traditions of our forefathers - some that go all the way back to ancient Jewish times - such as the tradition of obeying God given divine priestly authority. The Reformers never respected God’s ancient traditions and this is why they are not in favor with God and why the Protestant communities are progressively being fractured into all new denominations and they have so many problems and divisions (things like ordaining homosexuals and performing gay marriages and some having no problem with aborting innocent children and condoning things that the bible tells us will never be permitted to anyone in heaven). Catholic Tradition is to obey God’s commandments - a thing that many Protestants no longer follow since many think that “just believing” relieves them from the responsibility of “serving” the Lord by obeying The Lord. Protestants have all new traditions of disobedience that lets the devil control many who should know better.

God will judge you Ralphy. God will not read a bible at your judgement - He will read your heart and will ask you why you did not obey Him and His appointed leaders of His Church.

‘not all who call me Lord Lord will enter my Kingdom but only he who obeys Me’

James

 

[Thing]

Do you know that the disciples are dead and their bodies are in the grave, and if you say that they past something along to someone else, please supply some scripture for this , thank you. Ralph

when Paul had imposed his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came upon them,

Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw, that by the imposition of the hands of the apostles, the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying: Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I shall lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

??

Simon saw, that by the imposition of the hands of the apostles, the Holy Ghost was given…

 

[ralphy]

Not just any person can “lay on hands” to pass apostolic authority Ralph. It has to be passed on from an apostle or somone they passed it on to.

You can see that this was meant to be done very deliberately and responsibly since it is a real authority that gives real spiritual authority and powers (all the authority and power associated with binding and loosing sin - which is also the same power to ordain more apostolic successors).

Here is the proof that the apostles and early bishops considered this authority to be very real and to be used very carefully on only men who they could trust:

Proof of Spiritual Authority Bestowed Through Apostolic Laying On of Hands
*1 Tim 4:14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.

Warning not to pass Apostolic Authority to Any Who are Not Worthy*
1 Tim 5:22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

But I must ask you why do you assume that this authority is to give the apostolic successors specific powers to raise the dead ? This is not in scripture. These were special powers given to the early church mostly to demonstrate the authority while the church was an infant and growing. These are extraordinary gifts that come by special grace when GOD wants an apostolic authority to invoke them - raising the physical dead is not a normal power but we have had this happen a few times in the middle ages church. And our priests raise from the spiritual dead DAILY those who are in mortal sin through sacramental confession and also by baptism.

Catholic priests exorcise demons every day in the confessional - that is essentially what confession is - exorcism of evil. We also have priests who specialize in exorcising nearly completed take overs of individuals by demons. We have some priests who can heal when The Holy Spirit desires to work through them - but not everyone has all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Tradition is indeed a wonderful tool of God Ralph since we have the traditions of our forefathers - some that go all the way back to ancient Jewish times - such as the tradition of obeying God given divine priestly authority. The Reformers never respected God’s ancient traditions and this is why they are not in favor with God and why the Protestant communities are progressively being fractured into all new denominations and they have so many problems and divisions (things like ordaining homosexuals and performing gay marriages and some having no problem with aborting innocent children and condoning things that the bible tells us will never be permitted to anyone in heaven). Catholic Tradition is to obey God’s commandments - a thing that many Protestants no longer follow since many think that “just believing” relieves them from the responsibility of “serving” the Lord by obeying The Lord. Protestants have all new traditions of disobedience that lets the devil control many who should know better.

God will judge you Ralphy. God will not read a bible at your judgement - He will read your heart and will ask you why you did not obey Him and His appointed leaders of His Church.

‘not all who call me Lord Lord will enter my Kingdom but only he who obeys Me’

James

If all your priests had hands laid on them and they received power from God. Were those hands laid on them too hastily in some cases. Some of them did not turn out too well and the Roman catholic church would move them around to another church to get them out of the way, however most of them were caught. Gay marriages,ordaining homosexuals and abortions are against God’s will and I would not attend any church that allowed these things. Christ is the head of the church I attend.I need no one between myself and Christ. No one comes to the Father but by Me.
Ralph

 

[Thing]

If all your priests had hands laid on them and they received power from God. Were those hands laid on them too hastily in some cases. Some of them did not turn out too well and the Roman catholic church would move them around to another church to get them out of the way, however most of them were caught. Gay marriages,ordaining homosexuals and abortions are against God’s will and I would not attend any church that allowed these things. Christ is the head of the church I attend.I need no one between myself and Christ. No one comes to the Father but by Me.
Ralph

Warning not to pass Apostolic Authority to Any Who are Not Worthy
1 Tim 5:22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

If this was not a problem or a possibility within the early Church, the verse above would never have been penned as a warning.
As it stands sin and crime were always present within the early Church and as the verse states those who ‘laid hands upon too hastily’ also share the responsibility for those sins.
If you would not be in the Church today because you see sin in it even from Apostolic times, you will fare much worse outside the Church where sin is even more prevalent.

 

[CentralFLJames]

If all your priests had hands laid on them and they received power from God. Were those hands laid on them too hastily in some cases. Some of them did not turn out too well and the Roman catholic church would move them around to another church to get them out of the way, however most of them were caught. Gay marriages,ordaining homosexuals and abortions are against God’s will and I would not attend any church that allowed these things. Christ is the head of the church I attend.I need no one between myself and Christ. No one comes to the Father but by Me.
Ralph

Thing has made good comments above - and I agree with them. Let me also add:

This is exactly what Paul warned about - that even some who know the truth can still fall from grace and not attain salvation. You are discovering the spiritual truth that there is no assurances of salvation - not even for a disciple or an apostle since Satan can corrupt the person who let’s his guard down and apostatizes.

I am happy to hear that you are one who believes in the correct teachings about illicit homosexual behaviors (homosexual tendencies is not a sin unless they consent to the temptations) nor agree with murdering unborn children and I presume fornication and adultery and many of the other things we see among those who might be so bold to call themselves Christian and never repent from these sins. Bravo.

We just need to get you to see the importance of ecclesial apostolic authority and know that God wants you to have the sacramental graces available to you so that you may have more help in your life as a Christian since it is very hard in this sinful time we live in.

And you are correct - no one comes to God except through Jesus and Jesus invites all men into His Church and to his appointed shepherds. Jesus made it very clear that Peter and the apostolic succession of Peter was to be his appointed shepherds until His return.

John 21:15-17
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” 16 He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, “Feed my sheep.”

James

 

[ralphy]

Thing has made good comments above - and I agree with them. Let me also add:

This is exactly what Paul warned about - that even some who know the truth can still fall from grace and not attain salvation. You are discovering the spiritual truth that there is no assurances of salvation - not even for a disciple or an apostle since Satan can corrupt the person who let’s his guard down and apostatizes.

I am happy to hear that you are one who believes in the correct teachings about illicit homosexual behaviors (homosexual tendencies is not a sin unless they consent to the temptations) nor agree with murdering unborn children and I presume fornication and adultery and many of the other things we see among those who might be so bold to call themselves Christian and never repent from these sins. Bravo.

We just need to get you to see the importance of ecclesial apostolic authority and know that God wants you to have the sacramental graces available to you so that you may have more help in your life as a Christian since it is very hard in this sinful time we live in.

And you are correct - no one comes to God except through Jesus and Jesus invites all men into His Church and to his appointed shepherds. Jesus made it very clear that Peter and the apostolic succession of Peter was to be his appointed shepherds until His return.

John 21:15-17
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” 16 He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, “Feed my sheep.”

James

Peter of course is dead. I feed people with the word of God, God’s sheep,that is those who belong to His fold,the body of Christ. I also feed people who do not belong to the body of Christ (who are outside the fold) to win them to Christ (plant the seed) as God told us to do. Some have responded positively and have come to know Christ in a personal way, repenting of their sin and accepting the free gift of salvation that Christ offers them. The seed I plant of course is the word of God. Ralph

 

[sauce]

We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. Peter, dead? He lives in Christ.
If he doesn’t, then there is no hope.

This, of course, is understood in a mystical manner.
The resurrection of the body is yet to come. Peter’s ministry still lives.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Peter of course is dead. I feed people with the word of God, God’s sheep,that is those who belong to His fold,the body of Christ. I also feed people who do not belong to the body of Christ (who are outside the fold) to win them to Christ (plant the seed) as God told us to do. Some have responded positively and have come to know Christ in a personal way, repenting of their sin and accepting the free gift of salvation that Christ offers them. The seed I plant of course is the word of God. Ralph

ralphy, the important thing here is that Peter’s office is still very much alive and for that matter Peter is in still with us alive in spirit in heaven since God is the God of the living not of the dead.

Peter’s office, that is his authority, is what is passed on. The bible has an example of 4 generations of apostolic laying on of hands to convey authority.

You do not have an apostolic authority so you need to be careful that you are not spreading the wrong instructions. It was the Lord’s disciples who were given the authority to teach the gospel. All Catholics who are baptised and catechized and confirmed are also granted the apostolic teaching to teach God’s word since we have been confirmed by an apostolic bishop and anointed.

James

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Going to confession is not important, but confessing our sins to God is very important.

Your making up your own salvation theology, yet you call yourself a Catholic.

If you truly believe what it is you wrote in the OP, it is my belief that you are no more a Catholic than I am.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**This time, your answer is fully true

But let’s hear “Iamnotafraid”, why are you “not afraid”.
Didn’t you ever consider “WHAT IF IT’S TRUE AFTER ALL???”

OK you say - it can’t be true, and this means, you know better than over 4000 years Bible and 2000 years New Testament and Church.

Are they all stupid - just you know better? 2.5 Billion Christians are wrong, but “Iamnotafraid” is right?!**

 

[Jerry_Marino]

if one is walking in the light then one will stand convicted by the Holy Spirit if on sins. if the believer does not confess he does not stand in jeopardy of frying for eternity but his life will be full of misery cause God will be constantly disciplining him. if he is not being discipline then that would be proof enough that he is not a child of God cause we read in Scripture that God disciplines His loved ones.

1 John 1:9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.

1 John 2:1 My children, I am writing this to you so that you may not commit sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one. 2
He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.

is confession necessary?

yes.

God bless

 

[ralphy]

We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. Peter, dead? He lives in Christ.
If he doesn’t, then there is no hope.

This, of course, is understood in a mystical manner.
The resurrection of the body is yet to come. Peter’s ministry still lives.

I am saved, so Christ lives in me. Ralph

 

[Jerry_Marino]

me too and i am confident my brother, not cause of me but because of Him.

Praise Jesus

He is Lord!

God Bless you

 

[ralphy]

me too and i am confident my brother, not cause of me but because of Him.

Praise Jesus

He is Lord!

God Bless you

PTL. All praise and glory goes to Him. Ralph

 

[sauce]

Being saved doesn’t exempt a person from participating in “the Redemption.”

Jesus said “pick up your cross daily and follow me.” There are a lot of “saved” Christians who simply bypass the cross on the way to the open tomb. Oh no. No cross for them.
It’s to be avoided at all costs. How free. And how cheap.

Catholics believe in Salvation. But they also believe in participating in the Redemption.

We confess our sins through the ministry of the Church so that we may grow and realize how precious salvation is. It is Jesus’ blood that cleanses our sins away.
We participate in the “Redemption” when we unite our sufferings with His.
This is how we grow in wisdom and grace. We are tasked to live the bible, not just quote it.

 

[Thing]

if one is walking in the light then one will stand convicted by the Holy Spirit if on sins. if the believer does not confess he does not stand in jeopardy of frying for eternity but his life will be full of misery cause God will be constantly disciplining him. if he is not being discipline then that would be proof enough that he is not a child of God cause we read in Scripture that God disciplines His loved ones.

1 John 1:9 If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.

1 John 2:1 My children, I am writing this to you so that you may not commit sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one. 2
He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.

is confession necessary?

yes.

God bless

Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. yes!

 

[Thing]

I am saved, so Christ lives in me. Ralph

So run that you may obtain.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I am saved, so Christ lives in me. Ralph

You seem to have the cart before the horse Ralphy - the yoke goes the other way.

You are not saved unless you are baptised and repent of your sins and follow all Christ’s commandments and teachings.

James