SPLIT: Is Confession not necessary?

[CentralFLJames]

Your speaking for me? How odd.

I repeat, when I left the Church and realized that God was not real, my anxiety, guilt and shame drifted away as well.

Believe what you want, but don’t pretend that you can speak for me, let alone all of the non-believers in the world.

Believe what you want - as you have. The truth is that you put all your faith in yourself. That is a fact that you can’t refute without admitting you’re irrational and arbitrary. Tell us how you arrived at the certainty of your faith if you would be so kind to share? Was it a flip of the coin or a sudden inner epiphany - as if from an inner god?

James

 

[PJM]

A statement and a question

Here is what God has to say on the question you ask:

John 20:"1Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. **23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” **

John 1: 8 “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10* If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us”.

Mt. 16: 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."*

Question? This is what God say’s so what is your opinion?

Love and prayers,

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Believe what you want - as you have. The truth is that you put all your faith in yourself. That is a fact that you can’t refute without admitting you’re irrational and arbitrary. Tell us how you arrived at the certainty of your faith if you would be so kind to share? Was it a flip of the coin or a sudden inner epiphany - as if from an inner god?

James

It was a slow process. I had to overcome a fair amount of inner fear in challenging myself to question whether or not a God exists, let alone my Christian God.

I worked up the courage, studied my faith and the more I studied, the more my faith dwindled.

In essence, it was the full realization that we are natural animals, living in a natural world, within a natural universe, completely absent of any kind of a supernatural Deity.

I don’t have any faith, as faith is necessary for belief in the absence of evidence. Those days are well behind me.

 

[Iamnotafraid]

That is a fact that you can’t refute without admitting you’re irrational and arbitrary.

Irrational is believing in something that cannot be sensed, let alone proven.

Arbitrary is choosing which God you will believe in, amongst all of the choices that are available to humans.

 

[ralphy]

It was a slow process. I had to overcome a fair amount of inner fear in challenging myself to question whether or not a God exists, let alone my Christian God.

I worked up the courage, studied my faith and the more I studied, the more my faith dwindled.

In essence, it was the full realization that we are natural animals, living in a natural world, within a natural universe, completely absent of any kind of a supernatural Deity.

I don’t have any faith, as faith is necessary for belief in the absence of evidence. Those days are well behind me.

The bible talks about people like you. My heart goes out to you for I know from the bible where you will spend eternity. I humbly ask you to reconsider what you are doing. Surely you don’t believe that this universe came from a big explosion, start there and consider that, even look at a flower and see how it is formed, not by chance. Your soul is worth more than the whole world, please don’t throw it away.There is a God and He loves you. Ralph

 

[ralphy]

A statement and a question

Here is what God has to say on the question you ask:

John 20:"1Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. **23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” **

John 1: 8 “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10* If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us”.

Mt. 16: 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."*

Question? This is what God say’s so what is your opinion?

Love and prayers,

You surely cannot believe that Christ would build His church on a human sinner as Peter was, just like we all are. Ralph

 

[CentralFLJames]

Irrational is believing in something that cannot be sensed, let alone proven.

Arbitrary is choosing which God you will believe in, amongst all of the choices that are available to humans.

relying on mere chemical impulse and cellular sensory perception is not going to let you participate in witnessing the majority of the known universe Iamnotafraid. Dark matter can not be sensed by any human sensory means and it is the predominant matter of the universe. Likewise you can not see acceleration, gravity, velocity, inertia, morals etc. and yet all these things we know exist in more than abstract ways. True some can be felt in some manner - but one can not identify these attributes as physical essences that can be touched or held etc. Where does the sense of justice and fairness come from? It has to be more than a mere survival instinct - but if we concede even that - where do instincts come from?

Perhaps the finest proof for God’s existence that Science has ever come up with is discovering Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principal - a minimum time-quantum related to plank’s constant whose interval is so short that we can not observe both location and position of particle-wave natures of matter in that short interval except by approximation and guessing. We can observe one or the other but not both. This is a “natural” “reasonable doubt” built into nature that makes humankind admit that it can never know all things; to deny this principal is to fall into the error of supreme hubris or pride. In this small window of time anything in the universe can come into existence spontaneously and then disappear and never be known except by a discontinuity in its effects. My own theory is that God operates mostly through natural laws but may intervene transparently at any moment in time through Heisenberg’s uncertainty principal and not upset anything in nature yet work supernatural miracles that manifest themselves in the natural word. God tinkers when it suits his Divine Plan.

I won’t derail this thread on a sidebar topic but I will pray you get your faith back - it is a gift and it may be that God wants to make you come to realize that so you will value it and not lose it again. Hopefully you will find it quickly since we never know what our gift of life is up too and that can also be lost at any time.

God Bless,
James

 

[CentralFLJames]

You surely cannot believe that Christ would build His church on a human sinner as Peter was, just like we all are. Ralph

You surely don’t disbelieve Jesus or God’s Word do you?

*Matthew 16:18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. *

James

 

[Iamnotafraid]

The bible talks about people like you. My heart goes out to you for I know from the bible where you will spend eternity. I humbly ask you to reconsider what you are doing. Surely you don’t believe that this universe came from a big explosion, start there and consider that, even look at a flower and see how it is formed, not by chance. Your soul is worth more than the whole world, please don’t throw it away.There is a God and He loves you. Ralph

Ralph, your preaching to the choir. Only, I chose to leave the choir.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

sometimes it is better to turn a deaf ear, sometimes it is better be mute.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Iamnotafraid; you have to sing and whistle and call out “I am not afraid” all the time in this dark surrounding your soul finds herself, because you can’t prove the nonexistence of God – you simply denied the existence of God.

Ralph gave you a very good answer: “The bible talks about people like you. Reconsider what you are doing…”.

Though Ralph goes on “There is a God and He loves you” - don’t relay on that (“for just in tcase it’s true after all Imnotafraid forces himself to believe”). Too many say: God can’t else but love. That’s wrong. God can and will condemn those who sneer at Him. See Galatians 6,7:
Make no mistake: God is not mocked, for a person will reap only what he sows!

One of the many evidences that you are absolutely unsure of your “strong” words, like “I realized that God is not real” is the fact, that you keep writing/reading here in a Catholic Forum, where you know that you earn indulgent objections only. And be reasonable! How can you REALIZE anything that is unprovable?!

Christans though, after really living in God, do REALIZE the unprovable, as they soon strongly feel the presence of God. As you recect, you’ll never know that feeling. But you will see one day!
**

 

[Iamnotafraid]

One of the many evidences that you are absolutely unsure of your “strong” words, like “I realized that God is not real” is the fact, that you keep writing/reading here in a Catholic Forum, where you know that you earn indulgent objections only. And be reasonable! How can you REALIZE anything that is unprovable?!

Christans though, after really living in God, do REALIZE the unprovable,

I also partake in free thinkers forums and am not one to surround myself only with like minded people.

You accuse of me an absurdity, of coming to a realization that I do not believe in a God that cannot be proven to exist.

You then create a false distinction, that it is perfectly Ok for a religious to realize that a God that cannot be proven to exist, does exist.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Well “Iamnotafraid”: You really do have a strong help in your disbelieve. Find out who or what this “help” is, in 2 Thessalonians 2,7-12:

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. But the one who restrains is to do so only for the present, until he is removed from the scene.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord (Jesus) will kill with the breath of his mouth and render powerless by the manifestation of his coming,the one whose coming springs from the power of Satan in every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie,
and in every wicked deceit for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved.

Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie, that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned.
**

 

[cazayoux]

As I explained in my former email, I recieved this free gift that Christ offered, I am covered by His blood and therefor I am redeemed. Redemption means having my sins paid for , which they were when I got saved. Ralph

Christ redeemed all men … He shed His blood for ALL sin past, present, and future.
You would agree that not all men are saved, iow … not all men will go to heaven.

redeemed and saved … vs … redeemed and not saved.

what is the difference between these two groups?
Is it something that Jesus did or didn’t do?
Or is it something the saved or unsaved did or did not do?

michel

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Redeemed and saved … vs … redeemed and not saved. What is the difference between these two groups? Something that Jesus did or didn’t do? Or is it something the saved or unsaved did or did not do?

Great and memorable word! Thanks! I’ll use it in my forums

But surely here will be the old stupid answers: All go to heaven - Jesus saved all - God can’t else but love :banghead:

They simply refuse to read or hear and accept Jesus word in Mt 22,14 and Mt 7,14 and many others when many will be not allowed to heaven as also told us in Mat 25,34
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
**

 

[sauce]

Confession isn’t necessary for me.

When I rejected my Christian faith and denied the existence of God.

My faith melted away and so did my guilt, anxiety and shame.

Faith is a gift. It can be ditched, one supposes. But conversion is a gift, too.
Life isn’t over yet. Anything can happen.

Jean Baptiste Poquelin Moliere (known as the" enfant terrible") accepted the Church’s help on his deathbed, This, after making fun of the Church in his artistic works and life.
In the final analysis he wanted salvation. He received the last rites. The operative word here is “received.” I guess you could say he had a deathbed conversion. To me this is remarkable.

 

[sauce]

You surely cannot believe that Christ would build His church on a human sinner as Peter was, just like we all are. Ralph

Ralphy, why not? Jesus changed water into wine at Cana. He is all powerful I think you’d agree, and His ways are not our ways. The weakest link in a chain is also the strongest:
Peter is the weakest link upon which the Church is built, because his strength rests on Jesus Christ who has Peter in His hands. The Church is in the hands of Christ.

Lest anyone boast. It all goes back to Jesus every time. This represents the main deposit of faith.

Best wishes.

 

[cazayoux]

Ralphy, why not? Jesus changed water into wine at Cana. He is all powerful I think you’d agree, and His ways are not our ways. The weakest link in a chain is also the strongest:
Peter is the weakest link upon which the Church is built, because his strength rests on Jesus Christ who has Peter in His hands. The Church is in the hands of Christ.

Lest anyone boast. It all goes back to Jesus every time. This represents the main deposit of faith.

Best wishes.

Amen!!

We are a church of sinners.
Jesus chose 12 sinners. One betrayed him and ten others abandoned him at the cross. Only John was at the foot of the cross.

I think it is VERY significant that Jesus prayed for Peter. You KNOW that was answered.

I think it is VERY significant that Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter. Look at every time that God changed someone’s name … it indicated a change in position or rank. It MEANS something.

Ralphy … why did Jesus change Simon’s name to Peter?

michel

 

[sauce]

Amen!!

We are a church of sinners.
Jesus chose 12 sinners. One betrayed him and ten others abandoned him at the cross. Only John was at the foot of the cross.

I think it is VERY significant that Jesus prayed for Peter. You KNOW that was answered.

I think it is VERY significant that Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter. Look at every time that God changed someone’s name … it indicated a change in position or rank. It MEANS something.forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

Ralphy … why did Jesus change Simon’s name to Peter?

michel

My sentiments exactly.

What’s great about the Church is that the sacraments are there for us. There’s the support of the entire Church community. Confession can be so liberating and healing.
When this powerhouse is unleashed we are reinforced and fortified by the Holy Spirit.
Other churches need not be upset about us choosing to go to confession.
In the end, you reap what you sow.

 

[PJM]

=ralphy;5010544]Do you know that the disciples are dead and their bodies are in the grave, and if you say that they past something along to someone else, please supply some scripture for this , thank you. Ralph

Hi Ralph, If I do will you believe?

Before proceeding, if someone told you not to jump of the top of the Sears Tower, whould he have to tell you more than once

Let’s began by understanding that Jesus is God. God is all “everything Good” and everything good to the highest perfection. So God knows all, and has unlimited powers to do what ever He Wills. Agreed?

Why is it Ralph that you and me, in fact all of humanity have a intellect, a mind, a freewill, the ability to solve problems, to create art, to love and to hate. So Ralph show me your intellect. How big, wide, deep, long is it? What shape is it? What color is it? How much does it weigh?

You can’t? Why not? Because these are Spiritual attributes. We can prvoe they exist, but we cannot quantify them.

I’m going out the limb here, but I’ll assume your a Chrsitian, or at least someone who recogonizes a “Higher Power?” So, why is humanity alone is blessed with these “gitfs” and no other species has them? Is is reasonable to understand that, we have them for at least general reasons and applications, if not specific ones? Yes, this seems to be a logical conclusion. By this I only mean to imply that however we “got these gifts”, one can expect that the “Source (of all good things)” expected them to be used, or why bother giving them to us? Agree?

OK, so lets limit this discussion to “intellect” and “freewill” in that one (at least should)directs the other. Let’s presume that we have an intellect because we are expected to apply it at times, in a specific endeavor. We might term this effort “Common Sense.” (That which is reached by clear and obvious conclusions to exposed facts.)

Now if you were to start a company (perhaps you have?) that you intended to pass on to your family, would it be reasonable to make preperations, plans, decide who you’ll pass on the business to, and make sure that they were trained, prepared and given the anonomy and power to run the company in your absence? This seems like commom sense right?

So Ralph, would a PERFECT, all Knowing, and all Loving God do any less? To say “NO” would be imprudent and lacking common sense. Agreed?

Note carefully Ralph what Jesus who is God is saying and doing.

**I (Jesus, knowing that I shall soon die) will build "my (singular) church (singular) on you Peter Singular? NO! because to do so means that the Church Christ Died to create, would only live a few years longer then He Jesus? Common sense!

Jesus then goes on to say" I (Jesus) give you Peter (only Peter? NO!.. NOT Conceivible!) “The keys to the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!”

Ralph, would God die, just for Peter? (actually He would have if necessary, but the bible is full of references that He died for ALL) What about the other Apostles, and His Mother, and Lazarus, Martha His dear friends? Would He not wish them to join Him in Heaven? Of course He would, and He most clearly did just that!**

The power “to bind and loose” were common legal Rabbinic Terms enforceable at LAW!

They litterally mean the power of completely independent and unincumbered, governance!

Jesus as God was setting up a “business to save souls” certaintly, he did not intend for it to cease when he and Peter died. Common sense with Biblical and historical evidence support this conclussion. Agreed?

15 "He (Jesus) said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."/B]

Love and prayers my friend,