SPLIT: Married outside the Church

[banished]

jmcrae & SMHW,

Thanks for the suggestions. This is what I meant when I used “Red Tape” in my post:

“Red tape” is a term for excessive regulation or rigid conformity to formal rules, and it hinders or prevents action or decision-making.

If that priest had a heart, he could have absolved my sins while I was in the booth yesterday, and without all the “Red Tape” dealing with the Diocese. I explained to him that my first wife and I went trough the process in 1976, and that I didn’t want to go that route again. I didn’t go into the negatives with the Priest, but I will give you guys a short: After going along with the Parish, and sleeping in separate houses during a process that was supposed to clean up our marriage, the marriage was finally blessed in church. I am a very good public speaker, and gave a little speech, and we received quite a few Sacraments that day. Everyone clapped.

Now here is where the glitch started to surface:

My first wife was raised Protestant, so her concept of being a Christian was in line with John Wesley where Christians don’t drink, smoke, gamble, play Worldly games, dicker, etc

The Parish that we joined had Fiestas with beer & wine, at the apprieaton dinner the Priest drank hard liquer, and the church sponsered Bingo and other Worldly games.

My first wife would always say, “did you see that - did you see that!”

My first wife died at a very young age, and this time around I simply would like to leave my present wife in her Protestant Church where she belongs, because it has always been me who wanted to be a Catholic. Not either of my two wives.

That really creates a problem if the Catholic church considers my requirements as not being a sincere intention to avoid that sin. But, like all, “Red Tape” there is a loop hole somewhere. Any ideas? I really need help, or I will probably be buried with my arms cross on my chest like during communion.

Richard

 

[Seatuck]

jmcrae & SMHW,

Thanks for the suggestions. This is what I meant when I used “Red Tape” in my post:

“Red tape” is a term for excessive regulation or rigid conformity to formal rules, and it hinders or prevents action or decision-making.

If that priest had a heart, he could have absolved my sins while I was in the booth yesterday, and without all the “Red Tape” dealing with the Diocese. I explained to him that my first wife and I went trough the process in 1976, and that I didn’t want to go that route again. I didn’t go into the negatives with the Priest, but I will give you guys a short: After going along with the Parish, and sleeping in separate houses during a process that was supposed to clean up our dirty marriage, the marriage was finally blessed in church. I am a very good public speaker, and gave a little speech, and we received quite a few Sacraments that day. Everyone clapped.

Now here is where the glitch started to surface:

My first wife was raised Protestant, so her concept of being a Christian was in line with John Wesley where Christians don’t drink, smoke, gamble, play Worldly games, dicker, etc

The Parish that we joined had Fiestas with beer & wine, at the apprieaton dinner the Priest drank hard liquer, and the church sponsered Bingo and other Worldly games.

My first wife died at a very young age, and this time around I simply would like to leave my present wife in her Protestant Church where she belongs, because it has always been me who wanted to be a Catholic. Not either of my two wives.

That really creates a problem if the Catholic church considers my requirements as not being a sincere intention to avoid that sin. But, like all, “Red Tape” there is a loop hole somewhere. Any ideas? I really need help, or I will probably be buried with my arm cross on my chest.

Richard

Your wife does not have to revert back to the Church. You seem to be ignoring the suggestion of convalidation or radical sanation. Why? There is no loophole. Just obeying church teaching by following your canonical responsibilities.

 

[banished]

Your wife does not have to revert back to the Church. You seem to be ignoring the suggestion of convalidation or radical sanation. Why? There is no loophole. Just obeying church teaching by following your canonical responsibilities.

Hello Seatuck,

Sorry, but I am not up to speed with words like convalidaton, sanation, or canonical. If memory serves me right, back in 1976 the process that my first wife and I went through was called, “convalidation”?

The Priests and Bishops are not married, so there is no way for them to understand what is happening during the process. It’s almost like the first time your wife goes home to mother. That time, at least we didn’t have to repent for being married.

Richard

 

[SMHW]

…I simply would like to leave my present wife in her Protestant Church where she belongs, because it has always been me who wanted to be a Catholic. Not either of my two wives.

That really creates a problem if the Catholic church considers my requirements as not being a sincere intention to avoid that sin. But, like all, “Red Tape” there is a loop hole somewhere. Any ideas? I really need help, or I will probably be buried with my arms cross on my chest like during communion.

Richard

Richard, have you made an appointment with your pastor to discuss options for your situation? I mean a discussion outside of the confessional.

I’m surmising from what you say that you would find an ordinary convalidation to be problematic. Perhaps this is because you suspect your pastor will try to get your wife to return to the Catholic Church. Has a priest told you this?

To me it sounds like you perhaps ought to inquire about a radical sanation. Try googling it and if you still have more questions don’t hesitate to ask.

 

[banished]

Richard, have you made an appointment with your pastor to discuss options for your situation? I mean a discussion outside of the confessional.

I’m surmising from what you say that you would find an ordinary convalidation to be problematic. Perhaps this is because you suspect your pastor will try to get your wife to return to the Catholic Church. Has a priest told you this?

To me it sounds like you perhaps ought to inquire about a radical sanation. Try googling it and if you still have more questions don’t hesitate to ask.

SMHW,

I do all my conversations inside the confessional, basically becasue here in California the Priest are busy playing golf during the week. They never answer an email or phone call, so inside the confessional booth is where I nail them. Also, not to be disrespectful to the Priest, but we are supposed to concess our sins one to another, like in James 5:16. I always ask if the Priest wants to confess something to me. I feel comfortable inside the confessioal.

You are correct. I want my wife to continue on with her Protestant ministry in the large private school where she has been for 18 years. That is her calling. I can’t remember the verse off hand, but the Bible says that we must not come agains God’s workers here on Earth. A curse will be upon us if we do.

Thanks, I will to a search for “radical sanation”. My wife will never convert back to Catholic, even if she looses her job at the school. She came out of a Protestant Bible College in Manila. I would never marry a heathen

Richardb

 

[Seatuck]

Hello Seatuck,

Sorry, but I am not up to speed with words like convalidaton, sanation, or canonical. If memory serves me right, back in 1976 the process that my first wife and I went through was called, “convalidation”?

The Priests and Bishops are not married, so there is no way for them to understand what is happening during the process. It’s almost like the first time your wife goes home to mother. That time, at least we didn’t have to repent for being married.

Richard

Sorry , Richard I cannot agree with you that there is no way for priests to understand marriage etc. They can and they do.Priests make vows to God and they can certainly understand others vows to God. I am a nurse. I do not have diabetes but that does not prevent me from being able to help and work with people who have diabetes. If you had a mental illness would you only seek out a doctor with that mental illness because he would understand you? I think not.

Marriage is about making promises. On a civil level there are certain promises- to pay taxes and other financial things for instance. On a general christian level there are promises many of which are contained in the Catholic promises. But the Catholic undertands the sacrament of marriage to require further promises . That is what is expected of you . The church can see that you have not made those further promises. By continuing to go to confession without rectifying this situation you are being obstinate about refusing to follow Catholic teaching. Of course you cannot be absolved under that condition.

I hope you will make an appointment with a parish priest to work out the details. I am glad you were honest in the confessional .

 

[banished]

Sorry , Richard I cannot agree with you that there is no way for priests to understand marriage etc. They can and they do.Priests make vows to God and they can certainly understand others vows to God. I am a nurse. I do not have diabetes but that does not prevent me from being able to help and work with people who have diabetes. If you had a mental illness would you only seek out a doctor with that mental illness because he would understand you? I think not.

Marriage is about making promises. On a civil level there are certain promises- to pay taxes and other financial things for instance. On a general christian level there are promises many of which are contained in the Catholic promises. But the Catholic undertands the sacrament of marriage to require further promises . That is what is expected of you . The church can see that you have not made those further promises. By continuing to go to confession without rectifying this situation you are being obstinate about refusing to follow Catholic teaching. Of course you cannot be absolved under that condition.

Thanks Seatuck,

I really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. One of the pit-falls of this forum is that only a few members put their Location up in the heading. If you are located here in America, then depending on the region that you are located, you have interfaced and are in communion with Catholics from either Eastern Europe, France, Spain, Old Mexico, the Philippines, Ireland, etc. Not knowing where the messages are coming from makes it hard to put the content in perspective with California where we have a strong influence from Old Mexico.

Now remember, I am speaking of my experiences while being married to a couple of Protestant Women here in California. Most of our California women (including the Hispanics) have been to college, have their own careers, have one child, and function independently while still being loyal to their husband. If the husband tryst to muscle his way into the wife’s independence, there will be a divorce. The result is that here in California the only marriages that last are the ones that both the husband and wife have a mutual respect for each others career, religion, and independence.

What it boils down to is that our modern California women are not going to stay in the backyard and make tortillas, or participate in a second marriage ceremony that was designed for Old Mexico. The Catholic Church will just have to get up to speed with our modern women, because the halter is off. It would be like putting a halter back onto a horse that has been running free for six month? My wife is not going to participate in a convalidation, and I am not going to repent for being married to a modern California Woman. The Chruch will just have to get up to speed.

Richard

I hope you will make an appointment with a parish priest to work out the details. I am glad you were honest in the confessional .

 

[banished]

bbbbbbb

Sorry , Richard I cannot agree with you that there is no way for priests to understand marriage etc. They can and they do.Priests make vows to God and they can certainly understand others vows to God. I am a nurse. I do not have diabetes but that does not prevent me from being able to help and work with people who have diabetes. If you had a mental illness would you only seek out a doctor with that mental illness because he would understand you? I think not.

Marriage is about making promises. On a civil level there are certain promises- to pay taxes and other financial things for instance. On a general christian level there are promises many of which are contained in the Catholic promises. But the Catholic undertands the sacrament of marriage to require further promises . That is what is expected of you . The church can see that you have not made those further promises. By continuing to go to confession without rectifying this situation you are being obstinate about refusing to follow Catholic teaching. Of course you cannot be absolved under that condition.

I hope you will make an appointment with a parish priest to work out the details. I am glad you were honest in the confessional .

Thanks Seatuck,

I really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. One of the pit-falls of this forum is that only a few members put their Location up in the heading. If you are located here in America, then depending on the region that you are located, you have interfaced and are in communion with Catholics from either Eastern Europe, France, Spain, Old Mexico, the Philippines, Ireland, etc. Not knowing where the messages are coming from makes it hard to put the content in perspective with California where we have a strong influence from Old Mexico.

Now remember, I am speaking of my experiences while being married to a couple of Protestant Women here in California. Most of our California women (including the Hispanics) have been to college, have their own careers, have one child, and function independently while still being loyal to their husband. If the husband tryst to muscle his way into the wife’s independence, there will be a divorce. The result is that here in California the only marriages that last are the ones that both the husband and wife have a mutual respect for each others career, religion, and independence.

What it boils down to is that our modern California women are not going to stay in the backyard and make tortillas, or participate in a second marriage ceremony that was designed for Old Mexico. The Catholic Church will just have to get up to speed with our modern women, because the halter is off. It would be like putting a halter back onto a horse that has been running free for six month? My wife is not going to participate in a convalidation, and I am not going to repent for being married to a modern California Woman. The Chruch will just have to get up to speed.

Richard

 

[Chrisy58]

Now remember, I am speaking of my experiences while being married to a couple of Protestant Women here in California. Most of our California women (including the Hispanics) have been to college, have their own careers, have one child, and function independently while still being loyal to their husband. If the husband tryst to muscle his way into the wife’s independence, there will be a divorce. The result is that here in California the only marriages that last are the ones that both the husband and wife have a mutual respect for each others career, religion, and independence.

What it boils down to is that our modern California women are not going to stay in the backyard and make tortillas, or participate in a second marriage ceremony that was designed for Old Mexico. The Catholic Church will just have to get up to speed with our modern women, because the halter is off. It would be like putting a halter back onto a horse that has been running free for six month? My wife is not going to participate in a convalidation, and I am not going to repent for being married to a modern California Woman. The Chruch will just have to get up to speed.

Richard

Dear Richard,

I have been silent until now. I was born and raised in California. I attended St. Joseph of Cupertino in Cupertino, CA and I had the most wonderful priest Father Enzie as a spiritual advisor. I was confirmed at St. Christophers in San Jose. This was back in the 70’s, but I adored Mgsr. Allan too. I don’t live in CA anymore. I have had my issues with California, but it was never about the Catholic Church. The Catholic church there was my safe place and I adored the nuns and priests who I knew.

Like many Catholics there was a period of time when I left the church. I got angry and started a path of joining other faiths because I still wanted to feel like I was serving God. The thing was that I was far away from God and to proud to admit that I was wrong and I needed to eat a little humble pie and admit to myself that the church was right. I won’t go into details of just how lost and how miserable my life became because I refused to humble myself and do the right thing to get right with the church.

Your last statement really got to me when you said the church has to change? Excuse me. Are you so important that the Catholic Church has to change to suit you? We as Catholics know the teachings of the church and if we decide not to follow them because we choose to go ahead and do something that we want than we just have to accept the fact that we can’t take Communion. Do you really think whining about not being able to take communion and demanding that the church allow you to take communion shows your true intent of wanting to come back home and get right with the church?

You have been given some good advice on the two threads I have seen on this topic. Instead of making an effort to get your marriage blessed by the church you would say that the church has to change to suit you. That to me shows me you do not have a true heart in wanting to return to the church. You are not allowing Christ to work in your heart to bring you to the point that you repent and get right.

You have to make the choice. Are you going to do what it takes and talk to your wife about getting your marriage blessed in the Catholic Church so you can receive Communion or are you going to continue to just whine because we have priests who are doing what they are supposed to do as shepherds of the faith?

Have you talked to your wife? I don’t mean bully her and demand she do something but share your honest heartfelt feelings with her? If she truly loves you and she knows how important it is for you to get right again with the church than she may just agree to do what it takes so you can be a practicing Catholic in good standing. If you decide you don’t want to do that or she doesn’t want to do that and you agree to keep things the way they are than you just have to accept and abide by the teachings of the church without whining.

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae & SMHW,

Thanks for the suggestions. This is what I meant when I used “Red Tape” in my post:

“Red tape” is a term for excessive regulation or rigid conformity to formal rules, and it hinders or prevents action or decision-making.

If that priest had a heart, he could have absolved my sins while I was in the booth yesterday, and without all the “Red Tape” dealing with the Diocese.

No, he couldn’t. He has to follow the laws of the Church, too. He would get kicked out of the priesthood and get excommunicated, if he broke the rules just for you.

I explained to him that my first wife and I went trough the process in 1976, and that I didn’t want to go that route again. I didn’t go into the negatives with the Priest, but I will give you guys a short: After going along with the Parish, and sleeping in separate houses during a process that was supposed to clean up our marriage, the marriage was finally blessed in church. I am a very good public speaker, and gave a little speech, and we received quite a few Sacraments that day. Everyone clapped.

Now here is where the glitch started to surface:

My first wife was raised Protestant, so her concept of being a Christian was in line with John Wesley where Christians don’t drink, smoke, gamble, play Worldly games, dicker, etc

The Parish that we joined had Fiestas with beer & wine, at the apprieaton dinner the Priest drank hard liquer, and the church sponsered Bingo and other Worldly games.

My first wife would always say, “did you see that - did you see that!”

My first wife died at a very young age, and this time around I simply would like to leave my present wife in her Protestant Church where she belongs, because it has always been me who wanted to be a Catholic. Not either of my two wives.

Getting your marriage blessed does not mean that your wife has to convert to the Catholic faith. She can do whatever she wants.

That really creates a problem if the Catholic church considers my requirements as not being a sincere intention to avoid that sin. But, like all, “Red Tape” there is a loop hole somewhere. Any ideas? I really need help, or I will probably be buried with my arms cross on my chest like during communion.

As long as you keep treating or viewing the Church as a servant of yours who has to conform to your requirements, and seeing yourself as the customer or boss, instead of realizing that it is the Church who is the “boss”, and you who are the “servant”, that’s most likely exactly how you will end.

It’s totally up to you, though.

 

[banished]

Dear Richard,

I have been silent until now. I was born and raised in California. I attended St. Joseph of Cupertino in Cupertino, CA and I had the most wonderful priest Father Enzie as a spiritual advisor. I was confirmed at St. Christophers in San Jose. This was back in the 70’s, but I adored Mgsr. Allan too. I don’t live in CA anymore. I have had my issues with California, but it was never about the Catholic Church. The Catholic church there was my safe place and I adored the nuns and priests who I knew.

Like many Catholics there was a period of time when I left the church. I got angry and started a path of joining other faiths because I still wanted to feel like I was serving God. The thing was that I was far away from God and to proud to admit that I was wrong and I needed to eat a little humble pie and admit to myself that the church was right. I won’t go into details of just how lost and how miserable my life became because I refused to humble myself and do the right thing to get right with the church.

Your last statement really got to me when you said the church has to change? Excuse me. Are you so important that the Catholic Church has to change to suit you? We as Catholics know the teachings of the church and if we decide not to follow them because we choose to go ahead and do something that we want than we just have to accept the fact that we can’t take Communion. Do you really think whining about not being able to take communion and demanding that the church allow you to take communion shows your true intent of wanting to come back home and get right with the church?

You have been given some good advice on the two threads I have seen on this topic. Instead of making an effort to get your marriage blessed by the church you would say that the church has to change to suit you. That to me shows me you do not have a true heart in wanting to return to the church. You are not allowing Christ to work in your heart to bring you to the point that you repent and get right.

You have to make the choice. Are you going to do what it takes and talk to your wife about getting your marriage blessed in the Catholic Church so you can receive Communion or are you going to continue to just whine because we have priests who are doing what they are supposed to do as shepherds of the faith?

Have you talked to your wife? I don’t mean bully her and demand she do something but share your honest heartfelt feelings with her? If she truly loves you and she knows how important it is for you to get right again with the church than she may just agree to do what it takes so you can be a practicing Catholic in good standing. If you decide you don’t want to do that or she doesn’t want to do that and you agree to keep things the way they are than you just have to accept and abide by the teachings of the church without whining.

Hello Chrisy58,

Yes, quite a few of us got out of the Church during the late 1970’s, so you must be my age. I’m glad that you came out of the woodwork, because this is an important topic for the present Catholic Church. We have to face the fact that my Grandmother who practiced the faith had 15 children, and now we see modern Catholic Families with only one child. Something dosen’t add up.

I would like to mention that my first wife and I went through the Convalidation process, and received the Sacrament of Holy Marriage. When she died I was free to marry again. Seeing how I had already received the Sacrament, it was between me and God whether or not I chose to recieve the Sacrament again. It’s not as if I never received that Sacrament. Just like it’s between those young married Catholics and God whether they should have one child or the 15 children that comes naturally. It’s not as if they never had a child.

I have heard young Catholics in my family say,“he no playah the Game, so he no makeah the rules”, when I ask them why they only have one child.

Getting back to the late 1970’s, God really blessed me during my swim with the Protestants. If I hadn’t bailed out then, I would still be at where I was in 1976. I really grew in the Lord while with the Protestants. Now I’m ready to settle down to a more quite service like the Mass.

You didn’t say whether or not you think I got what I deserved when the Priest refused to resolve my sins at High Mass last Friday? That was a horable thing for him to do. Agree? It’s not as if I didn’t marry another Christian, or never received the Sacrament of Marriage. It’s not as if my wife and I weren’t practicing Christians for the 20 years that we have been married. What do you think?

Richard

 

[kage_ar]

As a baptized Catholic, one has a citizenship in the Universal Holy Catholic Church. Along with that great blessing, citizens are bound by certain laws.

A citizen has two choices, obey those laws or renounce citizenship and no longer be bound by those laws.

If you choose to retain your Catholic citizenship, you must abide by the canon law. That means you marry in the Church or get a dispensation. Without that, a marriage is invalid in the eyes of the Church.

This applies to all baptized Catholics, even those who just decided to go be Protestant. Unless you formally defect (and there is a legal process for that), you are living in an unlawful manner.

In essence, you have said that you don’t care if you broke the law of the Church, the law is old. Part of Confession is to be sorry for your sins, you don’t come off as sorry - how could a Priest grant you forgivness if you are not repentant?

 

[Phemie]

The rule on Confession is simple, no repentance and an intent to repeat a sin = no absolution. You have no repentance or you would be seeking to make your marriage valid in the Catholic Church so the priest cannot absolve you.

You seem to be in error where marriage is concerned (or you’re yanking our chain). Marriage is a sacrament conferred on 2 people, not 1. If your first wife was baptized, then yes, you both received the sacrament when your marriage was convalidated. The marriage, and thus the sacrament, ceased when your wife died. Since you are both Catholic (whether or not your present wife considers herself such) you need to receive the sacrament again.

 

[Chrisy58]

Hello Chrisy58,

Yes, quite a few of us got out of the Church during the late 1970’s, so you must be my age. I’m glad that you came out of the woodwork, because this is an important topic for the present Catholic Church. We have to face the fact that my Grandmother who practiced the faith had 15 children, and now we see modern Catholic Families with only one child. Something dosen’t add up.

I would like to mention that my first wife and I went through the Convalidation process, and received the Sacrament of Holy Marriage. When she died I was free to marry again. Seeing how I had already received the Sacrament, it was between me and God whether or not I chose to recieve the Sacrament again. It’s not as if I never received that Sacrament. Just like it’s between those young married Catholics and God whether they should have one child or the 15 children that comes naturally. It’s not as if they never had a child.

I have heard young Catholics in my family say,“he no playah the Game, so he no makeah the rules”, when I ask them why they only have one child.

Getting back to the late 1970’s, God really blessed me during my swim with the Protestants. If I hadn’t bailed out then, I would still be at where I was in 1976. I really grew in the Lord while with the Protestants. Now I’m ready to settle down to a more quite service like the Mass.

You didn’t say whether or not you think I got what I deserved when the Priest refused to resolve my sins at High Mass last Friday? That was a horable thing for him to do. Agree? It’s not as if I didn’t marry another Christian, or never received the Sacrament of Marriage. It’s not as if my wife and I weren’t practicing Christians for the 20 years that we have been married. What do you think?

Richard

I am 51.

You sound like you were very happy with the Protestants. You heart seems to be more in the Protestant church than the Catholic Church. They have Protestant Churches who are more quiet than let’s say the Assembly of God Churches. They have Luthern and Angelican churchs that have communion every Sunday. Though I don’t think they believe it is the actual body of blood of Jesus, but do it in rememberance of him. To be honest you seem to want the Catholic church to become Protestant, which is not going to happen.

I on the other hand, didn’t like the Protestant church and felt bad when ever I heard an anti-Catholic comment from the pulpit. I remember during those days that my friend and I who were Catholic and at Community College in Saratoga, CA were part of a Bible Study and we were not allowed to lead the prayer because we were Catholic. They didn’t mind us being there, but they wanted to convert us. They would plant seeds of the Catholic Church is wrong on this doctrine and we the Baptist church is right. I know a few young guys who left the Catholic Chruch and converted to the Protestant church because they had been poisoned against their own church.

Yes, I think the Preist did the right thing because you don’t really want to be living by the teachings of the Catholic Church, but you want to be allowed to have your cake and eat it too. You want the church to continue to bless your current situation when you are not willing to do what it takes to have the marriage blessed in the Church you say you want to be a member of.

I don’t know about you, but I have some guilt for the things I have done in my life and the years I was angry and left the church. I have guilt about sitting there in a church and listening to their anti-Catholic sermons.

Did you ever think that maybe God doesn’t want you toleave the Protestant church? Did you ever think that maybe he wants you and your wife to worship in the same church together? I believe God wants families to worship together in the same church. You have a child and he should see his parents share and worship in the same faith as one. Isn’t that what marriage truly is the two becoming one unit.

I would encourage you to pray and really seek God’s Will for you and your family. It just seems by your attitude that your heart isn’t really ready to accept the teachings of the Catholic Church. Your heart still seems in the Protestant church where you were so happy. I am not sure you are ever going to find what you are looking for in the Catholic Church because until you humble yourself and do what is necessary to be a Catholic in good standing a priest is not going to pardon you for something you are not willing to correct. In your eyes you are not wrong and the church is wrong. It is like you don’t want to understand the position of the church regarding the sacrament of marriage being for that one marriage and when she died that marriage was over. Now you have to get the marriage you have now blessed within the Catholic Church. Marriage ends at death. Catholics are not Mormons that believe that marriage can be eternal and that one is married in heaven.

I wish you the best. I know how hard it is to want to do the right thing, but at the same time not wanting to admit the truth.

 

[banished]

In essence, you have said that you don’t care if you broke the law of the Church, the law is old. Part of Confession is to be sorry for your sins, you don’t come off as sorry - how could a Priest grant you forgivness if you are not repentant?

Hello kage,

No, that is not what I said. God has given me two wives during my lifetime, and both while I was not under the authority of the Catholic Church. Ask yourself this question, “If it was God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, why didn’t a beautify young Catholic gal run up to me and throw her arm around me and beg me to marry her?”

In my opinion, it was not God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, so converting them was my own will. That is why I refuse to repent for being married to my present wife. Marriages are made in Heaven, not in the Catholic Church. A Sacrament is only a Sacrament and always will be a Sacrament. Like I mentioned earlier, I have already recieved that Sacrament.

Richard

 

[jmcrae]

Hello kage,

No, that is not what I said. God has given me two wives during my lifetime, and both while I was not under the authority of the Catholic Church.

You have been under the authority of the Catholic Church ever since you were baptized in it. But if you stopped being under the authority of the Catholic Church by means of a formal defection, then you are not under the authority of the Catholic Church right now, and the Catholic priest has no authority to grant you the Absolution, in any case. You can’t have it both ways.

In my opinion, it was not God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, so converting them was my own will. That is why I refuse to repent for being married to my present wife. Marriages are made in Heaven, not in the Catholic Church.

Jesus said to St. Peter, “Whatever you [the Pope of the Catholic Church] do on earth, it is done in Heaven.” (Matthew 16:18-19) The Catholic Church is a kind of avatar of Heaven - every law made in the Church by the lawful authorities of the Church, that law is also followed (and enforced) in Heaven.

A Sacrament is only a Sacrament and always will be a Sacrament. Like I mentioned earlier, I have already recieved that Sacrament.

You seem confused about what a Sacrament is. A Sacrament is a means of grace by which the Blood of Christ comes down from the Cross and washes us clean of our sins.

The Sacrament of Marriage perfects us by means of the two being in service to one another, and of the two in service to their children and to the whole world. The Sacrament of Marriage exists for as long as the two of them are both still alive. It ceases when one of them dies.

 

[kage_ar]

Jmcrae said it well above!

In re-reading, it seems that both you and your legal wife are baptized Catholics. Unless a person has defected by formal act (wrote a letter to inform their Bishop and had the Bishop accept that letter), then, they are both still bound by the Church law.

Seems that God is calling you back to the Faith, and this may be what it takes to bring you both back to full communion! Be humble, call the Parish and make an appointment to speak with your Priest.

God never wills that we leave the Holy Catholic Church. Prayers you both return to the Sacraments and to Jesus in the Eucharist.

 

[Walden]

Hello kage,

No, that is not what I said. God has given me two wives during my lifetime, and both while I was not under the authority of the Catholic Church. Ask yourself this question, “If it was God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, why didn’t a beautify young Catholic gal run up to me and throw her arm around me and beg me to marry her?”

In my opinion, it was not God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, so converting them was my own will. That is why I refuse to repent for being married to my present wife. Marriages are made in Heaven, not in the Catholic Church. A Sacrament is only a Sacrament and always will be a Sacrament. Like I mentioned earlier, I have already recieved that Sacrament.

Richard

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling from your posts that you are under the impression that your current wife must convert in order for your marriage to be blessed, convalidated, regularized, etc…

This is simply not the case. She can continue in whatever tradition she is currently in. What you need to repent of is not that you are married to her, but that the marriage occurred outside of the Church’s sanction. I have no personal experience with this, but it doesn’t seem like something that would be difficult to remedy.

 

[kage_ar]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that both my wife and I were non-praticing Catholics who had been baptized into a Protestant denomination. That probably makes our marriage a protestant marriage?

No, that makes you two Catholics who married outside the Church.

 

[phoenix3212]

Hello kage,

No, that is not what I said. God has given me two wives during my lifetime, and both while I was not under the authority of the Catholic Church. Ask yourself this question, “If it was God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, why didn’t a beautify young Catholic gal run up to me and throw her arm around me and beg me to marry her?”

In my opinion, it was not God’s Will that I marry a Catholic, so converting them was my own will. That is why I refuse to repent for being married to my present wife. Marriages are made in Heaven, not in the Catholic Church. A Sacrament is only a Sacrament and always will be a Sacrament. Like I mentioned earlier, I have already recieved that Sacrament.

Richard

Just get married in the Church. No conversion on your wife’s behalf is necessary, and afterwards the problem is permanently solved.