SPLIT: Married outside the Church

[kage_ar]

However, I would not be a Christian if I did’t remend you that the Bible says that, “we are without excuse!” It would be a sin for me not to mention that. Sorry.

Richard

Quoting bits of out of context verses does not prove any point. What is the chapter and verse you reference?

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae,

I already told you once that I am not trying to stop the salvation that you believe you will get out of the Canonical Law.

My salvation is from Jesus Christ, who established the Catholic Church, and gave it the keys to open and to shut (which means that it can make a Canon Law that requires me to eat exactly three bananas, each cut precisely into ten slices, every Wednesday, in memory of Judas’ 30 pieces of silver, should it so choose, and I would gladly slice them and eat them for the sake of my Saviour who gave me a Church to guide me into all Truth, if it did.

However, I would not be a Christian if I did’t remind you that the Bible says that, “we are without excuse!”

And it’s true - we are. Being freed from sin, we have no excuses for not being obedient to Holy Mother Church, just as Christ intends us to be.

 

[banished]

Quoting bits of out of context verses does not prove any point. What is the chapter and verse you reference?

I agree that the verse is very subjective. Romans 1:18-20 is about the guilt of the Gentiles. The law brought the realization of sin, but the law does not bring righteousness. It’s about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and one of the truths being that marriages are made in Heaven. Not by men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and they are without excuse.

Richard

 

[jmcrae]

I agree that the verse is very subjective. Romans 1:18-20 is about the guilt of the Gentiles. The law brought the realization of sin, but the law does not bring righteousness. It’s about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and one of the truths being that marriages are made in Heaven. Not by men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and they are without excuse.

Richard

The laws of the Church come from God. St. Paul was not talking about the laws of the Church in that passage; he was talking about the Kosher Law, which was the part of the Old Covenant that was abolished when Christ died on the Cross. However, the Ten Commandments were not abolished, nor the laws of charity, and Jesus explicitly gave the Apostles authority to establish discipline in the Church.

Church discipline, including Canon Law, is therefore part of the New Covenant; not the Old.

 

[kage_ar]

The passage you reference does not speak about marriage or the laws of God re marriage.

You really sound like a protestant. Perhaps begin with some basic books of the Faith and find the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church!

I’d suggest you begin with Shea’s “By What Authority”.

 

[bacon_man]

The passage you reference does not speak about marriage or the laws of God re marriage.

You really sound like a protestant. Perhaps begin with some basic books of the Faith and find the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church!

I’d suggest you begin with Shea’s “By What Authority”.

He was baptized Catholic and will always be a Catholic, even if he resists Church authority.

 

[banished]

The passage you reference does not speak about marriage or the laws of God re marriage.

You really sound like a protestant. Perhaps begin with some basic books of the Faith and find the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church!

I’d suggest you begin with Shea’s “By What Authority”.

Sorry, but I get tired of typing this stuff over and over. This is the text that I wrote in message fifty-something:

“Now we are getting somewhere. You finally said something that can be backed up with the Bible. When it comes to marriages being made in Heaven, the Bible says that, " we are without excuse”. Lets face it, a Sacrament can not produce children using two life sized dolls.

Here is what the Bible says about the subject:

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)

Therefore, you are without excuse: Marriages are made in Heaven."

If you feel exempt from that verse, then more power to you.

Richard

 

[jmcrae]

How do you get this,

Therefore, you are without excuse: Marriages are made in Heaven."

from this?

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)

 

[bacon_man]

It’s called taking out of context. Protestants do it all the time to justify things.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Now we are getting somewhere. You finally said something that can be backed up with the Bible.

As Catholics we use both Scripture and Tradition.

Lets face it, a Sacrament can not produce children using two life sized dolls.

What?

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)

Therefore, you are without excuse: Marriages are made in Heaven.

What? How on God’s blue marble called earth does Romans 1:20 have anything to do with the situation at hand?

 

[banished]

What? How on God’s blue marble called earth does Romans 1:20 have anything to do with the situation at hand?

Like I told you before, I am getting tired of typing this stuff over and over and over. I will cut and paste what I wrote about that verse in post fifty something:

“I agree that the verse is very subjective. Romans 1:18-20 is about the guilt of the Gentiles. The law brought the realization of sin, but the law does not bring righteousness. It’s about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and one of the truths being that marriages are made in Heaven. Not by men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and they are without excuse.”

Richard

 

[kage_ar]

This has gone into a dispute of Church teaching, it seems that the thread should be moved to an apologetics or non-Catholic religions forum.

 

[banished]

This has gone into a dispute of Church teaching, it seems that the thread should be moved to an apologetics or non-Catholic religions forum.

Move it anywhere you want, becasue I’m sick of looking at it.

Richard

 

[thunderballs75]

At OP: You seem very stubborn to me. Sorry but I’m a straight shooter. If you don’t want to follow the laws of the Church, don’t try to take the priest down with you. You are free to live as you want, but don’t expect the Church to bend for you.

 

[banished]

At OP: You seem very stubborn to me. Sorry but I’m a straight shooter. If you don’t want to follow the laws of the Church, don’t try to take the priest down with you. You are free to live as you want, but don’t expect the Church to bend for you.

Hello thunder,

The church wont bend, but it has loop holes big enough to drive a tank through. I was married to the wife in question while in the Philippines, so the Bishop over there will take care of it with a swipe on the signature line. I forgot the terminology that Catholics use for the expected tip during a transaction like that? I already told my mother-in-law to start working on it.

I enjoy talking to these heartless legalist around here, plus they don’t read thier Bibles either.

Richard

 

[thunderballs75]

Hello thunder,

The church wont bend, but it has loop holes big enough to drive a tank through. I was married to the wife in question while in the Philippines, so the Bishop over there will take care of it with a swipe on the signature line. I forgot the terminology that Catholics use for the expected tip during a transaction like that? I already told my mother-in-law to start working on it.

I enjoy talking to these heartless legalist around here, plus they don’t read thier Bibles either.

Richard

Oh, if you were married and it was/has been officiated by a Catholic priest/bishop I see no problem then! The priest in the confessional obviously didn’t know what was going on, so try to explain things to him. Good luck and God bless!

 

[banished]

Oh, if you were married and it was/has been officiated by a Catholic priest/bishop I see no problem then! The priest in the confessional obviously didn’t know what was going on, so try to explain things to him. Good luck and God bless!

Not quite, I still need a costly radical sanation decree issued by the diocesan bishop in the Philippines stating that he accepts the original consent of the marriage as valid.

Richard

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

“I agree that the verse is very subjective. Romans 1:18-20 is about the guilt of the Gentiles. The law brought the realization of sin, but the law does not bring righteousness. It’s about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and one of the truths being that marriages are made in Heaven. Not by men who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and they are without excuse.”

Not quite. Marriage as an institution is “made in heaven” but who you marry is entirely up to you. As a human person you have freedom and choice. Your decision of who to marry is not “made in heaven” but rather was made through your own will and choice. Technically speaking, Catholicism isn’t into the idea of “soul mates” in the sense of couples that are just “meant to be together.” One of the wonderful things about being human is that we are radically free and not predetermined.

You are the one who is “without excuse” since you clearly know that Catholics are to marry within the Church but you chose not to do so.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Not quite, I still need a costly radical sanation decree issued by the diocesan bishop in the Philippines stating that he accepts the original consent of the marriage as valid.

Richard

How “costly” is a relative term. Compared to what the average person spends on a wedding the costs of radical sanction are a drop in the bucket.

Secondly, a convalidation is a simple and, in most cases, free option.

 

[AFormerCatholic]

Well, if you were married outside the church, with out a dispensation and didn’t get your marrage blessed, than it would be yes, might be hard to read but from what I understand thats the case, I’m sure someone else will correct me if I’m wrong, but it shouldn’t be difficult to get your marrage officiated. I’ve read people that have done that here. To be honest, I’m not very old, I don’t know the details but thats my understanding.

Your absolutely correct.