Split: Mother Theresa Didn't Preach the Gospel

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4given:
Okay, thanks for your your possible explanation of her actions. I still think she was wrong, though.
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Oh Lord, you have some wacked priorities. Are you serious that you would take the sickest (literally at death’s door), poorest, most desperate, hungriest, coldest and nakedest people, who are the ones Mother Teresa and her nuns deal with, and bash their ears with the Bible?

Which a lot of them wouldn’t understand and certainly aren’t in a position to DO anything about until their practical needs are met anyways? When you could instead be giving them the sort of help which Christ himself said is what we will be judged on when we enter heaven?

“When I was hungry you gave me food, when I was thirsty you gave me drink …” Nothing in there about ‘when I was a non-believer you preached to me’. Because people who are hungry, cold and naked should FIRST be given practical help. Then, when they can stand on their own feet, worry about the state of their souls.

Look at Christ’s own example. He healed paralytics, cast out demons, cured the blind, lame, deaf, lepers … does scripture even say a word about his preaching to ANY of these people he healed? He preached instead to those who were at least physically and mentally in a position to be able to absorb his message.

Now I have the great joy and benefit of having a community of Mother Teresa’s nuns living in my neighbourhood. I see the type of work they do and the groups in society they deal with - believe me, they know what they’re doing and they know better than you how to win souls for Christ from among the poorest of the poor.
 
Redbandito said:
You’re not paying attention! Clearly Zooey is calling into question the credibility of this source, and pointing out that these were not the words of Mother Theresa, but Sister Ann. I don’t know how you could possibly take from Zooey’s quote that he believes it is acceptable to pray to other gods unless you are intentionally ignoring the responses on the board.
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Well, excuse me. I’ll have to check further but I have to get off now. I have someplace to be and I’m not purposefully ignoring. Who said Zooey believes it’s acceptable to pray to other gods? Did I say that? I have to go.
 
4given said:
I always cringe when Catholics hold up Mother Theresa so highly as an example of holiness. If she was so holy, why did she not share the gospel with dying people but instead told them to pray to their own gods? Don’t try to convince me that Protestants that go to the world and preach the gospel of Christ as it’s revealed in Scripture pales in comparison to a woman who told dying people to pray to their false gods. And there are plenty of Protestants who died for their faith during the inquisitions. And plenty of missionaries that have lost their lives, I’m sure, to take the gospel to the world. I’m sorry but that’s how I see it.
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It would be beneficial if you could provide at least one verifiable source for that claim.
 
Redbandito said:
What? Apparently you aren’t paying attention either. Did you take the time to notice that this was not Mother Theresa, but a mysterious Sister Ann who made this statement?
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This is not the first time I’ve heard Syncretistic accusations come out about Mother Theresa or Pope John Paul II for that matter. If they are true then they were in error.
 
chrisb said:
This is not the first time I’ve heard Syncretistic accusations come out about Mother Theresa or Pope John Paul II for that matter. If they are true then they were in error.
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The rub is that we need to demonstrate them to be true.
 
4given said:
Sorry, I thought you were Catholic. 🙂 Can you tell us in what kind of context it would be acceptable to answer a dying person who asks what they should do with “pray to your gods?”
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I would like to see some proof that this was ever even said. You may not realize that Mary Ann Collins, the author of most if not all the site you linked, is a pseudonym used by anti-Catholics, to insult & defame Catholics…So, when her name is attached to a statement, all of us who have seen her before are going to be very doubtful about what she has to say.

So, why even assume that it was said? That is what I keep trying to understand!! Why do some of my fellow Protestants dislike Catholics so much that they are reduced to repeating gossip & scandal about our brothers & sisters in Christ?

The answer is what my grandmother always told me: People are judged according to the light that they have.
If someone needed care, the nuns cared for them. (And continue today). Their lives were witness to their faith. No one, no missionary of any kind ever converts everyone that they meet. Not possible. Their job is to be light & salt in this world, & to hope & pray that that witness is winsome enough that many come to faith.
It would not be kind, it would not be Christian to harass a dying person…I have seen people die. It is a horrible & traumatic thing. “The last enemy to be destroyed is death”. In the meantime, if the person is clearly not going to accept the gospel after all of this that he has seen, would it be so horrible to simply whisper “Father, forgive them. They don’t understand”, as this dying one slips away? Is it so terrible to give to another human being the final dignity of being treated like a human being of great worth, while praying that he may, in that last second of breath, see, know, & love the One Who died to save us all??
God bless.
 
Abiien said:
i dont know, maybe you like to be called pitiful, but im sure most people here dont?

just voicing my opinion, which is what forums are for, arent they?
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No, you didn’t offend me. We don’t know each other, and I see you read my statement in a way it wasn’t intended. Putting a good person down, that, is pitiful.
Hmmm, did I write 4given was pitiful?

Maybe I like being called pitiful? LOL

Just voicing your opinion…so was I. 😉

Peace be with you.

Hopefully, 4given, when you have time, you won’t mind reading something from Mother Teresa…I just found this while trying to get info on what she actually said to those who were dying.

It was the first thing that came up and it’s not edited with words from other people…it’s just her words. She lived the gospel & spoke about God, used verses, ect more than most.

Please, if you have time
priestsforlife.org/brochures/mtspeech.html

I’ll continue to search for info on what she said to those who were dying in her arms. Just so I know…
 
Redbandito said:
You’re not paying attention! Clearly Zooey is calling into question the credibility of this source, and pointing out that these were not the words of Mother Theresa, but Sister Ann. I don’t know how you could possibly take from Zooey’s quote that he believes it is acceptable to pray to other gods unless you are intentionally ignoring the responses on the board.
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Thank you, thank you!!
I have been hearing the outrageous claims of the Mysterious Never-Seen Yet Often-Quoted Mary Ann Collins for long enough that I really & truly don’t believe anything that comes with her “name”* attached.

*Quotes because no one has seen or heard her, ever. She is only a name on the 'net, bashing Catholics in the worst & most unchristian manner I have ever seen . (Jack http://bestsmileys.com/sick/9.gifChick not excluded).

(And please,everyone forgive me yelling…It’s Not Easy Being http://bestsmileys.com/stpatricsday/2.gifGreen)
 
LilyM said:
The rub is that we need to demonstrate them to be true.
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I agree with you but I also believe that the Roman Catholic Church flirted with syncretism or at least gave the ‘appearance’ of such syncretism with it’s broad ecumenical overtures towards non-christian religions after Vatican II. Pope John Paul II made very generous overtures in his many visits and interfaith meetings that caused and continues to cause concerns with the Eastern Orthodox as well as other ‘more’ conservative elements of Christendom. The warm and fuzzy euphoria of the ‘spirit of Vatican II’ appear to be largely ‘over in the eyes of the Church’ and some of these overly generous overtures to Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism is and has come back to haunt the Roman Catholic Church in my opinion.

Now we can ‘circle the wagons’ and try to explain away some of these overtures or we can be honest when we discover them in the Church.
 
4given said:
Feel free not to respond then.

This isn’t the gospel revealed in Scripture.

rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/teresa/general.htm

Make all the excuses you want to, she was wrong.
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That’s a teriffic little website you used as your source: talk about equal opportunity bigotry: managing to “expose” Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer all in one breath! And buried further in your “source” site are those nasty anti-Catholic Christmas Carol “parodies” that are nothing but hate speech: Such as “That Little Town the Vatican”

(To the tune of “O Little Town of Bethlehem”)

That little town the Vatican,
How well it tells a lie;
To lull you into hellish sleep,
Idolatry to ply.
Their net of darkness closes,
O, Protestant to snare;
Your soul to popish wickedness,
Your mind their lies to bear.

If you’re at all sincere, 4given, you can start by improving the quality of your research and your sources. What’s next? Accusing Catholics of, say, introducing wax candles???
 
chrisb said:
I agree with you but I also believe that the Roman Catholic Church flirted with syncretism or at least gave the ‘appearance’ of such syncretism with it’s broad ecumenical overtures towards non-christian religions after Vatican II. Pope John Paul II made very generous overtures in his many visits and interfaith meetings that caused and continues to cause concerns with the Eastern Orthodox as well as other ‘more’ conservative elements of Christendom. The warm and fuzzy euphoria of the ‘spirit of Vatican II’ appear to be largely ‘over in the eyes of the Church’ and some of these overly generous overtures to Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism is and has come back to haunt the Roman Catholic Church in my opinion.

Now we can ‘circle the wagons’ and try to explain away some of these overtures or we can be honest when we discover them in the Church.
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I would make the circle larger, & say that all Christians–not just Catholic Christians–have been guilty of appearing to be syncretist. We are after all,** in** the world, & what the world is doing & saying affects us. The trick is to remember that we are told that we are not** of** the world.
And before one of our visiting fundies jumps on this bone, I would point out that there is a good deal of scandal to be found among those of the OSAS persuasion, when they cheerfully declare that (let us say) “Mr Morgan”, who murdered his wife, is in Heaven, because he “became a Christian”.
Now, I don’t know where the Mysterious “Mr Morgan” ends up, but I have to think that the murder of “Mrs Morgan” causes all Christians everywhere to shudder, thinking of what the press will make of this story…

But, I don’t assume that everyone is syncretist in fact. Not until I see the evidence, & an internet site specializing in bashing Christians of any persuasion is not evidence of anything…Other than, of course, the fact that a lot of people don’t like religious people in general, & Christians in particular.
Which should not surprise us. “The servant is not better than his Master”, & the Master…
Well. We all know that story:
img]http://bestsmileys.com/religous/6.gif

But when I see folks who spent their lives in love & service, & when that love & service was/is motivated by their love for God…When I see them being attacked, I feel like, it may be time to do something about it.
I leave it to better Christians than myself, to, as it were,🙂 sort out the paperwork.
 
chrisb said:
I agree with you but I also believe that the Roman Catholic Church flirted with syncretism or at least gave the ‘appearance’ of such syncretism with it’s broad ecumenical overtures towards non-christian religions after Vatican II. Pope John Paul II made very generous overtures in his many visits and interfaith meetings that caused and continues to cause concerns with the Eastern Orthodox as well as other ‘more’ conservative elements of Christendom. The warm and fuzzy euphoria of the ‘spirit of Vatican II’ appear to be largely ‘over in the eyes of the Church’ and some of these overly generous overtures to Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism is and has come back to haunt the Roman Catholic Church in my opinion.

Now we can ‘circle the wagons’ and try to explain away some of these overtures or we can be honest when we discover them in the Church.
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Sorry, I just fundamentally disagree with this post. Salvation has always come through Christ, and Christ Alone. The Church has established that. How that grace is applied to the individual is what is in question here. All the Church has stated is that if grace is truly a free gift from God, ONLY God can judge whom He will dispense it to. In other words, the Church doesn’t state beyond the shadow of a doubt that non-Christians will be saved. Rather, the Church states that it is God’s gift to give. And being that He is an infinitely merciful God, we wouldn’t put it past Him to save a “non-Christian.” God alone knows the heart. God alone can judge culpability. Paul refuses to even judge himself (1 Cor 4). Thus, it is not our place as Christians to determine who is going to Heaven and who isn’t. We fall on the mercy of God for all those who have not come to know Christ intimately in this life. That is what the Church teaches. To claim this borders on syncretism is nonsense. The grace of salvation comes through Christ alone.
 
4given said:
Who said anything about neglecting people’s physical needs and I don’t appreciate you saying I’m like the man who passed the man left for dead on the road. You don’t know me and obviously you don’t understand what I’m trying to get across either. I’m obviously wasting my time.
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Then don’t assert that a saintly woman didn’t preach the gospel.

You’re right…I don’t know you any more than you knew Mother Therese, and if you’re here trying to convince Catholics to leave our most holy faith…you’re absolutely right. (again) You are wasting your time.
Pax tecum,
 
Redbandito said:
Sorry, I just fundamentally disagree with this post. Salvation has always come through Christ, and Christ Alone. The Church has established that. How that grace is applied to the individual is what is in question here. All the Church has stated is that if grace is truly a free gift from God, ONLY God can judge whom He will dispense it to. In other words, the Church doesn’t state beyond the shadow of a doubt that non-Christians will be saved. Rather, the Church states that it is God’s gift to give. And being that He is an infinitely merciful God, we wouldn’t put it past Him to save a “non-Christian.” God alone knows the heart. God alone can judge culpability. Paul refuses to even judge himself (1 Cor 4). Thus, it is not our place as Christians to determine who is going to Heaven and who isn’t. We fall on the mercy of God for all those who have not come to know Christ intimately in this life. That is what the Church teaches. To claim this borders on syncretism is nonsense. The grace of salvation comes through Christ alone.
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Of course it does. I agree completely. Salvation is through Christ, & Christ alone.
But I know that…My best friend & I graduated from high school together, back in the '60s. And we have spoken more than once about the fact that our generation has had a less than exemplary effect on our whole culture.
So, there has been about 40 years or so, of trying to be politically correct, at the expense of truth, of right morals, of–you name it.
Now, I really, really, don’t think that Christianity just up & went away in those 40 years. But I do think that we have to admit that we, as individuals, have at times caused scandal, because we were busy following the times. And, yes, this is sin.
But then, when* wasn’t* sin a problem??
I am in no way attacking anybody. (Except for the people who put up hate sites. I will cheerfully admit that they rub me the wrong way. And, I know that it sometimes shows…
 
4given said:
You’re not getting it. People who worked with her are quoting her as saying these unscriptural things. And while, it’s commendable that she met physical needs in caring for the poor, that’s no excuse for what she told those people. Try as you might to get around it.
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Hummm, so someone is on the verge of death, theres a rat chewy at the stub that used to be a foot, and Mother Theresa should have said "dear, I see you need comforting in your last moments, but I want to tell you, you’re going to hell unless you turn your heathen heart to Jesus? No one knows what she said to them, except the people she spoke to. She wouldn’t have been made a Saint if there were any grounds for any of your claims.
I only know what I’ve read and heard her say, I know she spoke for those who couldn’t speak for themselves. I know she gave a fantastic speach for the rights of the unborn when she recieved her noble peace prize. I know she did things that I could never dream of doing sitting here in my comfortable home. How many dying have you comforted today? Saved today?
If I could do one tenth of what that woman did, I would be a very secure Christian!
 
It’s obvious that there’s no point in any further response by me in this thread. Have a good evening.
 
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