Split! MyFavoriteMartin's "One True Church" Thread

[Nicene]

myfavoritmartin:

Anyways, here’s one scripture that I think really shows Paul’s primacy:
Paul had authority over the finances of the church (Acts 24:26,
2 Corinthians 9:5, Philippians 4:15-18).

Ok lets go with this, Paul has primacy of the church (making the other aposltes subject to him) It guarantees we need to eliminate Corinthians.

12: What I mean is that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apol’los,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
13: Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

As well in Timothy Paul tells Timothy that in consecrating bishops that he layed hands on Timothy and Timothy is to do the same. Therefore any church that cannot show that direct descention from Paul is a false church. Therefore we know that if we keep the laying on of hands that Colossae founded by Ep’aphras is legitimate.

(Your assertion, your rules)

Now we can either eliminate the letter to Timothy to be inclusive of all churches or we have to show Pauline heritage. It also guarantees that we have to edit or eliminate Acts. If the later inclusiveness is to be upheld a revision is going to be in order to show that Paul ordered differently, changing his mind, and asserting his Pauline primacy.

If Paul being in charge of the money proves his primacy, does that not mean that Judas also held the Primacy before him?

As well it also opens up scripture to be inclusive of Barnabas as canon as he was Pauls traveling companion and the letter was read by the early churches in the churches. As well as 1 Clement.

The writings of Irenaeus (through Polycarp), Ignatius, and Polycarp can be disgarded as they are disciples of John and call the church catholic.

This should get us a good start on which scripture to revise , rewrite or eliminate.

Remember the burden is on you to convert me. I am going to hold you to standard.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

myfavoritmartin:

Lets see what paul goes on to say… so you can put it in context
2ti3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

With all due respect we haven’t decided if that is part of canon yet. The letter may be spurious given the previous post. If not we will be in need of editing that particular part as it only says profitable, and I am sure Paul would have meant absolute rule.

But we can get to that if we decide to keep this as canon.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

myfavoritmartin:

The point here is the scripture quoted by aaron gives no more relevance to peter’s primacy than any number of scripture I could give to prove rather that paul had primacy.

I know we have the money part proving Pauls primacy, but could you point out the other scriptures that we may examine them to decide if they can remain in scripture? Thanks for your help in this matter.

Many blessing.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

Oh almost forgot, Ephesians is already eliminated by virtue of it being contrary to the many local church theory-One faith, one baptism, etc., as well as comparing Christ to having one bride to a marriage. It denotes a single entity church which is contrary to the postulaion of Pauls primacy.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nicene:

I know we have the money part proving Pauls primacy, but could you point out the other scriptures that we may examine them to decide if they can remain in scripture? Thanks for your help in this matter.

Many blessing.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. acts 20:28

Passing on authority for successors to have authority over the church.

Do you want more?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nicene:

I know we have the money part proving Pauls primacy, but could you point out the other scriptures that we may examine them to decide if they can remain in scripture? Thanks for your help in this matter.

Many blessing.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Our lord chose him as his vessel.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nicene:

I know we have the money part proving Pauls primacy, but could you point out the other scriptures that we may examine them to decide if they can remain in scripture? Thanks for your help in this matter.

Many blessing.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

called himself father

1Cr 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1Cr 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nicene:

I know we have the money part proving Pauls primacy, but could you point out the other scriptures that we may examine them to decide if they can remain in scripture? Thanks for your help in this matter.

Many blessing.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

authority of churches

1Cr 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Nicene:

I know we have the money part proving Pauls primacy, but could you point out the other scriptures that we may examine them to decide if they can remain in scripture? Thanks for your help in this matter.

Many blessing.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

rebuked another apostle (Peter)

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

miracles with his clothing

Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

 

[valient_Lucy]

montanaman:

I once had a RABID anti-Catholic claim–for weeks–that St. Patrick wasn’t Catholic because he didn’t “sound like it.”

That’s really, really sad. :banghead:

 

[Church_Militant]

montanaman:

I once had a RABID anti-Catholic claim–for weeks–that St. Patrick wasn’t Catholic because he didn’t “sound like it.”

I’m sure that Patrick, Brigid, and Columcile all had a laugh about that one!!!
:irish1: :irish2:

 

[Church_Militant]

MFM,
You are wasting your time since Cephas was every bit the apostles as Paul was and more so in that it was Cephas that was spoken to in Matthew 16:18…not Paul.

Peter is named first in EVERY list of apostles, which was as significant then as it is today.
Peter is the one that initiated the apostolic succession in the replacement of Judas Iscariot.
He preached the first sermon at which 3,000 were brought into the church.
Peter’s shadow brought healing…
He dealt out the first very lethal excommunication.
He counseled the council in Jerusalem.

So your case is really not all that conclusive, though the points about Cephas suggest to me a primacy that Paul never even acts like is his.
Pax tecum,

(P.S. And I didn’t even waste a dozen posts to list it all.)

 

[montanaman]

Don’t you Protestants get sick and tired of posting these obscure, sorta/kinda-if-you-squint-your-eyes-just-right “refutations?” When you get down to the point of just throwing stuff at the Church and hoping it sticks, that’s when you need to reassess what you think you know about it.

Please, stop the lame attempts. Pay attention to Fredericks if you really want to attack Christ’s Church. He’s at least original.

 

[Nicene]

myfavoritmartin:

called himself father

1Cr 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1Cr 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

While I apperaciate your effort, you forgot, we already eliminated Corinthians as a valid epistle (actually all of them until we can prove they are inspired)

As well this whole thing about calling anyone father is against Christs commands, so of course it is Spurious “call no man father”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

myfavoritmartin:

rebuked another apostle (Peter)

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Correct. This confirms that we can remove 1 and 2 Peter from scripture, as they were written after Peter apostasized, in approximately the year 62-64. Thanks for confirming the spurious nature of the epistles.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

miracles with his clothing

Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

this will definately need to be eliminated, that whole worship of articles stuff, the majority of protestant churches don’t accept that. Being all inclusive this is definately spurious. It cannot be part of the canon. God would never mislead people to do such things, the Holy Spirit wouldn’t allow it. Spurious, removed.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

authority of churches

1Cr 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

I appreciate your effort but you keep forgetting we already confirmed that Corinthians is spurious remember. It conflicts with Pauls primacy, and the nature of the church.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. acts 20:28

Passing on authority for successors to have authority over the church.

Do you want more?

Unfortunately this seems like you want to put 1 Timothy back into scripture. If that is the case then we need to revisit the laying on of hands, or remove it from the epistle. It’s playing the same game as catholics have been, and that is against Christs all inclusive church.

If you can’t directly link yourself to Timothy, Epaphras, Alexander, Apollos, Titus, Clement et al, then all other churches protestant and catholic alike are false churches. This hurts our arguement about the all inclusive church.

Are you sure we shouldn’t be removing this one? Or at least editing it?

By the way, what about 1 Clement and Barnabas, I notice you haven’t touched on if we shall consider them canon yet.

(sorry my fingers are frozen atm, just got back from teaching my kids to shoot (cold outside) and there are a few typos)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. acts 20:28

Passing on authority for successors to have authority over the church.

How do we go about enforcing this over our protestant bretheren so they are bound by our authority? I am fairly certain this goes against the tenet of all inclusive church if they don’t have a say. It just makes you (or me, whichever we choose) the new Pope.

I thought we were against a single headed church?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene