SPLIT: Once Saved Always Saved? (Revisited)

[tqualey]

Hi, OneNow,

Great post! Imagine, “…according to one’s works…” and that is not the Works of the Law - but what an individual actually does to demonstrate their belief in Christ and thus identifying the illusion of OSAS.

It will be later pointed out that via a so-called ‘proof text’ that just belief is all that is necessary. The snag comes in - as it always does - in looking at the context in which the quote was lifted. So, while we must hear the Word of God (as v 24 says) we can not just stop there (as v 28-29 says).

John 5: 24 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life. 25Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.p 26For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.q 27And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voices 29and will come out, those ***who have done good deeds ***to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.

As I see it, OSAS is simply toxic to anyone who follows it. Look at the numerous examples of those who get their ‘reward’ first … but then do not perform. By analogy, there were many banks and bank executives who came up short when the money had to be produced to satisfy depositors and creditors. The Congress (with our money) bailed these financial institutions out (‘too-big-to-fail’ was the tune to sing) and they did not fail. But, look - all of these bonuses were paid out to these most undersrving of individuals… who did worse than nothing to keep their bank afloat (some had been drilling holes in the floor and filling it with fraud enhanced housing loans - and when those bubbles broke, the water just poured in). These banks thought they too were saved … and look what happened.

This should not come as any surprise - truly, it is just classic human nature. Once paid, there is no need to work. If we are saved with the ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ and an ‘Altar Call’ then the 25th Chapter of Matthew is meaningless. The five foolish virgins, for example, should have been dancing outside the locked door singing the OSAS tune so the door would be opened for them. But, you know … that just didn’t happen.

God bless

Indeed He is ! Romans 2: 5-8 God will repay each man according to his works. 2Cor. 5: 10, recompense accord’s to what we do in body. 2Cor11: 15, there end will correspond to their deeds. 1Peter1: 17, God judges impartially according to one’s works. Rev 20: 12-13dead judged according to deeds.

Assurance of salvation

Matt. 7: 21, not all who say Lord,Lord, will be saved only those that do the will of the Father. Matt. 24: 13, those who perserve to the end will be saved. Romans 11:22,remain in His kindness or you will be cut off. Phil. 2: 12,work out your salvation in fear and trembling. 1cor.9: 27,drive the body for fear of being disqualified. 1Cor 10: 11-12, those thinking they are secure may fall. Gal 5: 4, separated from Christ you fall from grace. Heb 6:4-6, describe sharers in the Holy Spirit who fall away. Heb 10: 26-27, if sin after receiving truth judgment remains.

Peace

 

[Sig]

Luke 15:
***31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Where does that parable say that salvation was lost. Certainly it says the prodigal son was lost. Are you trying to convince me that the prodigal son isn’t really a son, but is salvation.

Please explain how “the prodigal son = salvation???”

*26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

V39 says those being addressed don’t do the things being done in the verses you’ve cited:

But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

So that passage doesn’t prove that believer’s can lose salvation.

Remember, Jesus gives eternal life to those who never perish! (Jn 10:28). Also remember that it is God who justifies, and those justified by God, He also glorified (Rom 8:33, 30). Salvation can’t be lost.

 

[Sig]

Ver. 4. &c. For it is impossible,[1] &c. This is an obscure place, differently expounded, which shows how rash it is for the ignorant to pretend to understand the holy Scriptures. Many understand these words, it is impossible, &c. of the sacrament of penance, or of returning to God by a profitable repentance, especially after such heinous sins as an apostacy from the true faith. But then we must take the word impossible, to imply no more than a thing that is very hard to be done, or that seldom happens, as when it is said, (Matthew xix. 26.) that it is impossible for rich men to be saved: and (Luke xvii. 1.) it is impossible that scandals should not come. For it is certain that it is never impossible for the greatest sinners to repent by the assistance which God offers them, who has also left the power to his ministers to forgive in his name the greatest sins. But others (whose interpretation seems preferable) expound this of baptism, which can only be given once. The words here in the text very much favour this exposition, when it is said, who were once enlightened. For baptism in the first ages was called the sacrament of illumination. See St. Denis de cælesti Hierar. chap. iv.; St. Gregory of Nazianzus; &c. The following words also agree with baptism, when they are said to have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost; to have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come; all which signify the interior graces, the miraculous gifts, and power of working miracles, which they who were baptized frequently received in those days. — They cannot be renewed again unto penance. That is, they cannot be renewed again by baptism, which is also called a renovation. (Titus iii. 5.) Their sins may indeed be forgiven them in the sacrament of penance, but this is not a renovation like that in baptism, in which both the guilt, and all pain due to past sins, is remitted; whereas in the sacrament of penance, though the guilt, and the eternal punishments due to sins be remitted, yet many times, temporal punishments, to be undergone either in this world or the next, still remain due to such as have been great sinners, to them who by relapsing into the same sins, have crucified again to themselves the Son of God, making a mockery of him; i.e. who, insensible of the favours received, have ungratefully renewed sin; to take away which Christ suffered, was mocked, crucified, &c. (Witham) — Macknight observes that Beza, without any authority from ancient manuscripts hath inserted in his version Si, If they shall fall away, that this text might not appear to contradict the Calvinistic doctrine of the assurance of salvation. The English translators have followed Beza. The biblical student will be glad to find Dr. Wells, in his elegant edition of the New Testament, frequently restoring and preferring those readings which agree with the Latin Vulgate. The same just tribute is paid to the Vulgate by Walton, Mills, Gerard, Griesbach, Harwood, and others. Indeed the Vulgate has been declared authentic in a general council, and probably expresses more of the true reading of the original or autograph, than any Greek edition that is now to be found, and certainly much more than modern versions, which are stained more or less by the preconceived sentiments of the translators. — For the earth that drinketh in the rain, &c. He bringeth this comparison, to give them a horror of abusing God’s graces and favours, and of making themselves guilty of hell fire. (Witham)

Enjoy your conversation with (Witham).

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Odell,

Heb 10 is pretty clear - people who have, through their behavior, demonstrated that they have lost their salvation. These people have apparently rejected the Grace of God and have simply returned to their sinning ways.

And here we have in Luke 15, someon who was so inundated with sin that he ‘…yearned to eat what the pigs were eating…’ simply to stay alive. Through Grace the son comes to his senses and repents. It is because the Prodigal repents and returns to the Father that his salvation is now seen. There may be a question in the minds of some that the Prodigal was a real person - but, such a conclusion is uncertain. As a parable, characters can stand for many things - and yes, the Prodigal can stand for someone who was once in the kingdom (his Father’s house) left the house to go out and sin (living with pigs) repented and returned to the Father’s house) a return to salvation. He used his Free Will in all of his actions.

Free Will is operating in both - and we see how different outcomes are to be expected because each of them (and us) is an individual recognized and loved by God as such.

God bless

Luke 15:
***31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Heb 10:
*26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Sig]

Hi, OneNow,

Great post! Imagine, “…according to one’s works…” and that is not the Works of the Law - but what an individual actually does to demonstrate their belief in Christ and thus identifying the illusion of OSAS.

It will be later pointed out that via a so-called ‘proof text’ that just belief is all that is necessary. The snag comes in - as it always does - in looking at the context in which the quote was lifted. So, while we must hear the Word of God (as v 24 says) we can not just stop there (as v 28-29 says).

John 5: 24 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life. 25Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.p 26For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.q 27And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voices 29and will come out, those ***who have done good deeds ***to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.

As I see it, OSAS is simply toxic to anyone who follows it. Look at the numerous examples of those who get their ‘reward’ first … but then do not perform. By analogy, there were many banks and bank executives who came up short when the money had to be produced to satisfy depositors and creditors. The Congress (with our money) bailed these financial institutions out (‘too-big-to-fail’ was the tune to sing) and they did not fail. But, look - all of these bonuses were paid out to these most undersrving of individuals… who did worse than nothing to keep their bank afloat (some had been drilling holes in the floor and filling it with fraud enhanced housing loans - and when those bubbles broke, the water just poured in). These banks thought they too were saved … and look what happened.

This should not come as any surprise - truly, it is just classic human nature. Once paid, there is no need to work. If we are saved with the ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ and an ‘Altar Call’ then the 25th Chapter of Matthew is meaningless. The five foolish virgins, for example, should have been dancing outside the locked door singing the OSAS tune so the door would be opened for them. But, you know … that just didn’t happen.

God bless

Mr.Tom, care to take a crack at proving that in the 1 Cor 9 passage “disqualified = loss of salvation?”

How about taking a crack at the 1 Cor 10 passage and proving that “falling = loss of salvation?”

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Hunter123,

I read the link you provided - and from the earliest times, through the ECF and on past the Protestant Revolt, the words of Christ to baptize all in the Trinitarian formula have been accepted. Until we get to the Age of Enlightenment and so-called Historical Criticism.

“An unbroken continuity of opinion prevailed in viewing the words of the Great Commission as coming from the mouth of Jesus Himself. No early Christian community or redactor could lay claim to having originated His recorded sayings. The account in the Gospel of Matthew is historically precise in its description of Christ’s marching orders to the eleven disciples and to the church as a whole.”

So, I guess that I am a bit confused about just what point you want to make by using this link. Please, enlighten me. And, in your enthusiasm for clarifying this for me … tell me how this fits into OSAS. While being baptized is the way Christ wants us to get started in following Him - it is not an end point. We need to obey (and, that would be another one of those pesky ‘Works’ that we have to use our Free Will [along with the Grace of God] to begin and end the Work.)

God bless

tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj11c.pdf You mean that great commission?

 

[hunter123]

Hi, Hunter123,

I read the link you provided - and from the earliest times, through the ECF and on past the Protestant Revolt, the words of Christ to baptize all in the Trinitarian formula have been accepted. Until we get to the Age of Enlightenment and so-called Historical Criticism.

“An unbroken continuity of opinion prevailed in viewing the words of the Great Commission as coming from the mouth of Jesus Himself. No early Christian community or redactor could lay claim to having originated His recorded sayings. The account in the Gospel of Matthew is historically precise in its description of Christ’s marching orders to the eleven disciples and to the church as a whole.”

So, I guess that I am a bit confused about just what point you want to make by using this link. Please, enlighten me. And, in your enthusiasm for clarifying this for me … tell me how this fits into OSAS. While being baptized is the way Christ wants us to get started in following Him - it is not an end point. We need to obey (and, that would be another one of those pesky ‘Works’ that we have to use our Free Will [along with the Grace of God] to begin and end the Work.)

God bless

Many scholars do not feel the great commission is authentically Jesus’ words. I was not there and neither were you, so I guess thats where faith comes in.

My only point was calling into question Sigs statement in reference to it. I really don’t care if I step on a few Catholic toes since Catholics don’t rely on this doctrine solely.

 

[hunter123]

Mr.Tom, care to take a crack at proving that in the 1 Cor 9 passage “disqualified = loss of salvation?”

How about taking a crack at the 1 Cor 10 passage and proving that “falling = loss of salvation?”

Take a crack at telling us who believed in OSAS before the 1800’s? Or are you telling us that you understand what the church fathers and subsequent generations of learned men could not?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Unity of Trinity,

You completely answered the questions with Scriptural quotes.

Now, all of Scripture was approved by the Catholic Church around 400AD and the Canon was established - so, accepting Scripture is simply accepting the Church founded by Christ on Peter.

Notice that never once did Christ say to Peter, “OSAS, Peter! ” Never happened. Never once did Christ say, “OSAS, Paul! ” In fact, throughout Scripture, as you pointed out - while Salvation starts with believe, it does not end there. And not once is it reported that Christ appeared to Calvin and told him, “OSAS, Calvin!” What we are really looking at are the 'Traditions of men" attempting to interact with the Gospel message of Christ.

John 15:5-14
5I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.d 8By this is my Father glorified, that ***you bear much fruit ***and become my disciples.e 9As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.11“I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. 12 This is my commandment: love one another as I love you. 13 No one has greater love than this,j to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command you.

Just look at all that we must do - this is focused our on-going obedience to Christ’s command - not to a,“Lord, Lord!” statment, or a OSAS statement or saying the ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ or making an ‘Altar Call’.

God bless

UnityofTrinity:

 

[Odell]

Where does that parable say that salvation was lost. Certainly it says the prodigal son was lost. Are you trying to convince me that the prodigal son isn’t really a son, but is salvation.

Please explain how “the prodigal son = salvation???”

.

***31 “‘ was dead and is alive again; he was lostand is found.’”

What does it mean to be dead? What does it mean to be lost?

 

[hunter123]

Sig,

I suggest you read Matthew 7:13-14 about the narrow gate. Explain that passage in light of OSAS.

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction”

Just believing yourself to be saved, and then doing whatever the heck you want after that seems a pretty easy route through the wide gate to me.

 

[Odell]

Where does that parable say that salvation was lost. Certainly it says the prodigal son was lost. Are you trying to convince me that the prodigal son isn’t really a son, but is salvation.

Please explain how “the prodigal son = salvation???”

V39 says those being addressed don’t do the things being done in the verses you’ve cited:

But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

So that passage doesn’t prove that believer’s can lose salvation.

Remember, Jesus gives eternal life to those who never perish! (Jn 10:28). Also remember that it is God who justifies, and those justified by God, He also glorified (Rom 8:33, 30). Salvation can’t be lost.

How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

He is clearly talking to those who are saved

 

[hunter123]

No need to argue scripture with sig, just ask him to name one Christian before the 1800’s, maybe even later who believed in this doctrine of OSAS?

 

[Sig]

Take a crack at telling us who believed in OSAS before the 1800’s? Or are you telling us that you understand what the church fathers and subsequent generations of learned men could not?

I’ve answered several of your questions.

My question to you, and to other Catholics on this thread remains unanswered: Please provide some support, or proof that “disqualified = loss of salvation” in 1 Cor 9, and that “falling = loss of salvation” in 1 Cor 10.

Until you either provide what’s been requested, or tell me that you cannot answer the question, I’m going to conclude that you can’t answer the question. I don’t know what the lurkers will conclude.

 

[Sig]

No need to argue scripture with sig, just ask him to name one Christian before the 1800’s, maybe even later who believed in this doctrine of OSAS?

The apostles. The doctrine is in Scripture.

God bless.

 

[fhansen]

My question to you, and to other Catholics on this thread remains unanswered: Please provide some support, or proof that “disqualified = loss of salvation” in 1 Cor 9, and that “falling = loss of salvation” in 1 Cor 10.

1 Cor 9 squares perfectly with Phil 3 where Paul identifies the prize with the resurrection from the dead which He’s striving for but not yet obtained:

But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:7-14

1Cor 10: 12-13:
12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. 14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.

Yes, these verses highlight Catholic teachings on the matter. Verses 6-10 warn believers of the consequence-death-of particular forms of idolatry. This echoes 1 Cor 6:9-10:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Then verse 11 in 1 Cor 9 warns believers not to follow in that same way. And then it follows naturally that, if not for the freedom of a believer to reject God’s grace (His “way out” in this case), verse 12 would contradict verse 13 and verse 14 would be superfluous. This whole passage also echoes Rev 2:2-7, likewise addressed to true believers:

I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Hunter123,

The thread is still OSAS and in my opinion we need to stay with it.

You are correct, neither of us was physically present in 1st Century Jerusalem. But, if that is the criteria then nothing can be determined as accurate until we arrive at the scene… and, you know that isn’t correct.

Honestly, I do not understand your statement about indifference to stepping on “…a few Catholic toes…” Just Whose do you think you are really trying to step on? Christ promised the Holy Spirit would prevent the Church from teaching error - and the Catholic Church has declared that there is no error in Scripture. Additionally, both Catholic and Protestant faiths believe that God is the Principal Author of Scritprue - there can be no error in Scripture because God is Total Truth.

Additionally, where do you get the idea that that you can dismiss a portion of Scripture because you don’t think Catholic rely on this doctrine solely. Seriously, the Protestants in revolt had a similar approach and they pitched seven books from the Old Testament. If you think you are correct with what you have started - what can you possibly use as a limit? This is one of the avenues that OSAS got into the revolt - it essentially was one of many step-children that came from individual interpretation.

Here are two links that may be interesting reading:

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=22

catholic-truth.info/apologetics/bible.htm

God bless

Many scholars do not feel the great commission is authentically Jesus’ words. I was not there and neither were you, so I guess thats where faith comes in.

My only point was calling into question Sigs statement in reference to it. I really don’t care if I step on a few Catholic toes since Catholics don’t rely on this doctrine solely.

 

[hunter123]

Hi, Hunter123,

The thread is still OSAS and in my opinion we need to stay with it.

You are correct, neither of us was physically present in 1st Century Jerusalem. But, if that is the criteria then nothing can be determined as accurate until we arrive at the scene… and, you know that isn’t correct.

Honestly, I do not understand your statement about indifference to stepping on “…a few Catholic toes…” Just Whose do you think you are really trying to step on? Christ promised the Holy Spirit would prevent the Church from teaching error - and the Catholic Church has declared that there is no error in Scripture. Additionally, both Catholic and Protestant faiths believe that God is the Principal Author of Scritprue - there can be no error in Scripture because God is Total Truth.

Additionally, where do you get the idea that that you can dismiss a portion of Scripture

because you don’t think Catholic rely on this doctrine solely. Seriously, the Protestants in revolt had a similar approach and they pitched seven books from the Old Testament. If you think you are correct with what you have started - what can you possibly use as a limit? This is one of the avenues that OSAS got into the revolt - it essentially was one of many step-children that came from individual interpretation.

Here are two links that may be interesting reading:

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=22

catholic-truth.info/apologetics/bible.htm

God bless

I obviously thought I stepped on your toes judging from your reaction. But thanks for the links.

 

[hunter123]

pfrs.org/osas/index.html

Honestly read this article about OSAS. It clearly refutes the rather late belief of OSAS.

And tell me Sig, If the first Christians believed once saved always saved, why did Paul need to work out his salvation in fear and trembling?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Hunter123,

That will simply never work … and for several reasons.

Yes, I know that Calvin came up with OSAS - but, that really isn’t the issue (don’t want to get bogged down with ‘pride of authorship’… or copyright issues…)

The first reason is that with private interpretation, one can (falsely) claim that ‘proof texts’ exist everywhere for OSAS - and, they do! The text eixst when you wrench them out of context and dangle their fragments out to say, “Here it is!” So, a thoughtful response would include the entire context for starters. In each case so far given, simply going back to the chapter where the ‘proof’ is offered allows one to see that both faith and works are necessary - and both of these wrapped within the Grace of God.

The second reason why this won’t work is historical responses. Just go back and see how similar items have been evaded in the past.

In an earlier post I had referenced the five foolish virgins, let’s continue to look at Matthew 25 and see what else DIDN’T happen. When the ‘wicked and lazy’ servant was found out (Matt 25:14-30) he did not suddenly dance around and sing OSAS because he started out in the Master’s House and was given a Talent (Kingdom of God). This non-Working servant was thrown out because he failed to produce what was expected of him. This is the message from Christ Himself. The OSAS crowd can not handle that view simply because its obvious meaning contradicts the heresy. The argument is that this ‘wicked servant’ was always reprobate - and we know this because of the judgment he received. But, notice the Master treated them all alike (except for the quantity of Talents) - and gave them all the same assignment. I do not think this particular servant knew he was reprobate. To argue that he was is simply begging the question - trying to force the answer.

There is no honest scriptural backing for OSAS - and you are quite right about that

God bless

No need to argue scripture with sig, just ask him to name one Christian before the 1800’s, maybe even later who believed in this doctrine of OSAS?