Split: Science was invented by the Church

[Cat_Herder]

  The same Christ can come to us in different ways, through different expressions of faith, and through different modes and houses of worship. That's why we all need to work toward a 'big tent' Christianity that permits us to think differently from one another.

The Bible does not support that view of the church. There is supposed to be agreement about doctrine.

[BIBLEDRB]Rom 16:17[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 1:10[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Phil 2:2[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Rom 15:5[/BIBLEDRB]

  The more people become educated, the more they will reject narrow dogmatism and think for themselves. I find that a plus and not a minus.

Under your thin veil of non-dogmatism is the old English stereotype of the Catholic Church as a bunch of backwards medieval monks. It is also the alleged subtext of Osteen’s joke.

These days there is Google and Wikipedia, so there really is no excuse for anyone to hold this bias anymore. Anyone with five minutes and a computer can figure out that science was invented by the Church. Ditto for the university, the hospital, etc. Catholics are behind the Big Bang theory, germ theory, even heliocentrism-- Copernicus and of course Galileo were Catholics, the latter despite the black legend that surrounds him.

How you, and Osteen, could hold this bias is amazing.

 

[Todd520]

Catholics have done many great things in science - AGREED

Anyone with five minutes and a computer can figure out that science was invented by the Church.

The Catholic Church invented science - WRONG
After seeing a statement like that, Al Gore’s name springs to mind (guy who invented the internet)
Seriously, why do catholics always want to give the Church full credit for the good things their individuals do, but the tune changes when the individuals do bad things?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Catholics have done many great things in science - AGREED

The Catholic Church invented science - WRONG
After seeing a statement like that, Al Gore’s name springs to mind (guy who invented the internet)

I was referring to [Roger Bacon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger Bacon), the first scientist to posit the modern scientific method.

This is not a situation like Gore’s where for funding ARPANET he gets alleged credit for everything subsequent. All modern science is built on Fr. Bacon’s work.

 

[Todd520]

I agree, Roger Bacon was a superb Catholic man
It’s still inappropriate to attribute the accomplishments or sins of an individual to the Church, unless Church docrine was explicit as a contributor,

I would agree you can say a Catholic man invented science

I was referring to [Roger Bacon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger Bacon), the first scientist to posit the modern scientific method.

This is not a situation like Gore’s where for funding ARPANET he gets alleged credit for everything subsequent. All modern science is built on Fr. Bacon’s work.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I agree, Roger Bacon was a superb Catholic man
It’s still inappropriate to attribute the accomplishments or sins of an individual to the Church, unless Church docrine was explicit as a contributor,

I would agree you can say a Catholic man invented science

From the [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger Bacon) linked above:

Bacon circumvented this restriction through his acquaintance with Cardinal Guy le Gros de Foulques, who became Pope Clement IV in 1265. The new Pope issued a mandate ordering Bacon to write to him concerning the place of philosophy within theology. As a result Bacon sent the Pope his Opus Majus, which presented his views on how the philosophy of Aristotle and the new science could be incorporated into a new Theology. Besides the Opus maius Bacon also sent his Opus minus, De multiplicatione specierum, and, perhaps, other works on alchemy and astrology.

 

[Nine_Two]

The Catholic Church invented science?

Wow.

 

[Cat_Herder]

The Catholic Church invented science?

Wow.

Yup. There were many Byzantine and Ottoman contributors who came before Fr. Bacon and he used their work, but he was the first to put the scientific method together.

 

[Cat_Herder]

As you can see, Fr. Bacon’s work was commissioned by the Pope in the same way that any formal study on theology would have been.

Can we PLEASE get rid of this artificial dichotomy between religion and science already?

 

[Nine_Two]

Yup. There were many Byzantine and Ottoman contributors who came before Fr. Bacon and he used their work, but he was the first to put the scientific method together.

There were many who came before even those empires, however the scientific method is not science, and a Catholic man is not the Church.

 

[Nine_Two]

I quite agree with that entire comment. People of every race, creed, and nationality have contributed to science, and that includes pre-Christian pagans.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I quite agree with that entire comment. People of every race, creed, and nationality have contributed to science, and that includes pre-Christian pagans.

So you would say that the Greek pagans invented philosophy and democracy, but the Catholic Church didn’t invent the scientific method?

 

[Nine_Two]

Can we PLEASE get rid of this artificial dichotomy between religion and science already?

That seems like an entirely different topic which has nothing to do with who thought of what.

Of course the dichotomy is artificial, but it has nothing to do with who came up with what ideas.

 

[Cat_Herder]

There were many who came before even those empires, however the scientific method is not science, and a Catholic man is not the Church.

So as an Orthodox you might say the Catholic Church “invented” the Immaculate Conception, but not the scientific method.

 

[KathleenGee]

St. Thomas drew from Aristotle, but instead of cause and effect, used God as the Unmoved Mover, and which he used to claim he could prove the existence of God.

Science is has been used by man since the early beginnings of civilization.

 

[Nine_Two]

So you would say that the Greek pagans invented philosophy and democracy, but the Catholic Church didn’t invent the scientific method?

I’d say the Greeks came up with Greek philosophy, but they aren’t an organization, that’s a nationality. I’d also credit democracy specifically to Solon, who was a Greek. If you were to claim that the Cult of Athena (The dominant religion of Athens) invented democracy and philosophy, I’d say you’re wrong, same as I’m saying you’re wrong to say the Catholic CHurch invented Science.

Based on that argument it was the English, not the Catholic Church, which invented the scientific method.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Western philosophy, then. You may show an independent origin for Eastern/Asian philosophy but all European and Islamic philosophy traces back to Greece.

In the same way all modern science traces back to Fr. Bacon’s monastery and his pontifical mandate.

 

[Tuno]

These days there is Google and Wikipedia, so there really is no excuse for anyone to hold this bias anymore. Anyone with five minutes and a computer can figure out that science was invented by the Church…

I just found this. Thanks for the best laugh of the month! out of five on the funny scale. Good work! Not quite worth a Darwin Award, but well on the way.

 

[Cat_Herder]

That’s quite a non sequitur. It’s quite established that Greek philosophy evolved out of Greek ethics which derived from the works of Homer, all of which were religious in nature.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I just found this. Thanks for the best laugh of the month! out of five on the funny scale. Good work! Not quite worth a Darwin Award, but well on the way.

Please demonstrate evidence that it is a joke.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’d say the Greeks came up with Greek philosophy, but they aren’t an organization, that’s a nationality. …

Based on that argument it was the English, not the Catholic Church, which invented the scientific method.

Nationalities are organizations, you know? And Fr. Bacon’s support came from the Church, not the government.