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PRmerger
Guest
I cannot and will not ever say that someone is “going to hell”.
If someone ever asks me, “I am a Christian and I did , am I going to hell?” I say, with the words of Christ, “Strive to enter.”
Purgatory: think about your soul at this very moment–is it pure and clean?
Now think about the verse in Revelation which says, “Nothing unclean can enter heaven.”
How do you, a Christian who embraces Christ but are not quite cleaned up, face the Eternal Godhead before the Throne of Heaven?
Through the atoning blood of Christ, to be sure, but how do you get cleaned up?
Answer: purgatory!
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PRmerger
Guest
See my signature. It 'splains it all.I’ll go along with that, PR.
P.S. Does “PR” stand for “Public Relations”?
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PRmerger
Guest
Ah, so you’re talking about when someone gets baptized. :yup:
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Thank you for that testimony, Linda. Much of this time in discussion has been a pleasure for me as well.
I’d like to tell you my testimony and how God led me into interdenominationalism. But it’s getting late. Maybe later. . . .
God bless you all. I feel a kinship with you.
We serve the best—and only—God in the universe!
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
No more hiding and peeping 'round the posey, PR. (Don’t ask me what that meant
)
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jmcrae
Guest
No; it’s because of the commandment that we are not to pass judgement on our brothers and sisters.
To identify a particular individual as “going to Hell” is to pass a final judgement on their soul that only God is allowed to pass - and that God has not yet passed, since obviously they are not yet in Hell.
We will know soon enough who is going to go to Hell and who isn’t, when we get there.
There is no need to rush the process.
Those who go to Purgatory are already on their way to Heaven - there are no “second chances” in Purgatory for those who are in the state of mortal sin. If a person dies in the state of mortal sin, he goes straight to Hell; there is no stop-over in Purgatory.
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Linda_Marie
Guest
Not that they are definitely going to hell, but that they are at risk of going to hell.
As a charismatic Catholic, and having fooled around with the occult before coming to faith, I have had some experience with the denizens of hell. Just that small peek was more than enough to convince me I did not want to make a closer acquaintance.
Jesus said that if we don’t eat His Body and drink His Blood, we will have no life within us. He also said, “Take this, ALL of you and eat it. This is My Body which will be given up for you”. In the same way He took the cup, (the fourth cup of the Sedar meal). He gave the cup to his disciples and said, “Take this ALL of you and drink from it. This is the cup of My Blood, the Blood of the New and Everlasting Covenant.” This makes receiving the Eucharist essential. We must partake of the sacrifice to be part of the New Covenant.
EUCHARIST AND PASSOVER
PESACH
Jesus and the Passover Seder
As a liturgical memorial of the exodus, the Seder was central to Jesus’ religious life and his religious identity. In celebrating the Seder, Jesus affirmed and embraced the exodus as foundational and formative for the Jewish people; he expressed his fidelity to God’s command (Exodus 12.1-20) to celebrate one of the most important festivals; he recommitted himself to membership in the Jewish people - for not to celebrate the Seder was to cut oneself off from the people. In celebrating Passover, Jesus renewed - communally - the covenant between God and Israel that was established in the course of the exodus.
From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: The Story of the Todah
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wisdomseeker
Guest
Oh my. The pope calls for unity. where is the unity? there is only one place which unity can happen. It is in the CC. He is telling them to work towards unity in the CC.
But i am not surprised that you cannot grasp this one either. It is the desire of the Holy Church of God that should enter in her.
The Church also says that those who knows the Church and rejects her is in danger of losing their souls.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
I watched the last part of a powerful movie on Joan of Ark last night and saw a part that fits into our discussion.
An older Catholic woman is dying. Just before her last breath she tells Joan, whom she knows is headed toward inquisition and possible burning at the stake, to remember these words: “So long as our Lord is first served.”
Later, when Joan is under interrogation, one of the Catholic priests—I presume he was a priest—asks Joan, “Will you submit to the judgment of the church as the voice of God on earth?”
She responds, “Yes.”
A few moments of silence follow.
Then, as the priest is turning away, and as if she remembers the older woman’s advice, she adds, “so long as our Lord is first served.”
Joan was eventually judged a heretic and burned to death, although witnesses say her heart didn’t burn.
500 years later the Church made her a Saint.
I agree with Joan—the Church moves in God’s authority only as long as our Lord is first served.
Maybe I’m the real Catholic here.
An older Catholic woman is dying. Just before her last breath she tells Joan, whom she knows is headed toward inquisition and possible burning at the stake, to remember these words: “So long as our Lord is first served.”
Later, when Joan is under interrogation, one of the Catholic priests—I presume he was a priest—asks Joan, “Will you submit to the judgment of the church as the voice of God on earth?”
She responds, “Yes.”
A few moments of silence follow.
Then, as the priest is turning away, and as if she remembers the older woman’s advice, she adds, “so long as our Lord is first served.”
Joan was eventually judged a heretic and burned to death, although witnesses say her heart didn’t burn.
500 years later the Church made her a Saint.
I agree with Joan—the Church moves in God’s authority only as long as our Lord is first served.
Maybe I’m the real Catholic here.
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PRmerger
Guest
As soon as you join the Catholic Church, you will be, Cal!I agree with Joan—the Church moves in God’s authority only as long as our Lord is first served.
Maybe I’m the real Catholic here.
And then you will enjoy the most sublime and intimate union that exists this side of heaven: the One Flesh Union between us and The Beloved called the Eucharist.Regarding the Church moving in God’s authority only as long as our Lord is first served: don’t judge the Church by its sinful members who do not follow her teachings.
It’s the difference between orthopraxy (right practice) and orthodoxy (right teaching). One is prone to sin and error (orthopraxy) and one is not (orthodoxy). IOW: people can *practice *the faith incorrectly, but that does not make the teaching incorrect.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Hello, PR.
Please elaborate.
What’s the difference between explicit faith and implicit faith? In my understanding, you either have a saving faith that shows up outwardly, or you don’t have any saving faith at all.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Huh?
The Bible speaks of 3 stages of salvation.
We are saved from spiritual death and enter spiritual life when we repent, believing (living by faith) in Jesus Christ (according to 1 John).
We are saved from condemnation and declared forgiven (pardoned, justified, made ready to enter God’s presence during this life) immediately after we decide to live by faith in Jesus.
The second stage is the gradual process of purification—becoming more and more like Christ by the power of his indwelling Spirit—which we received at the first stage. First John says those who have a hope (anticipation) of heaven purify themselves daily.
The last stage is when we receive our glorified, immortal bodies and enter heaven.
(For the sake of simplifying the discussion, I’ll skip mention of the time in between our physical death and resurrection.)
Does our difference have only to do with semantics or is there a real difference?
Have a great day, my friend.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
I had asked WisdomSeeker, “How does the Catholic Church interpret, ‘My sheep listen to my voice’ (John 10:27)?”
He responded, “How can you prove that HS [Holy Spirit] is guiding you and not the Church Jesus found?”
I’ll answer your question as soon as you answer mine.
Happy Christmas shopping to you, WisdomSeeker!
He responded, “How can you prove that HS [Holy Spirit] is guiding you and not the Church Jesus found?”
I’ll answer your question as soon as you answer mine.
Happy Christmas shopping to you, WisdomSeeker!
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PRmerger
Guest
An explicit faith is the Christian faith. An implicit faith is somehow apprehending Him who is the “true light which enlightens everyone”. So Socrates, who never met the man Jesus or knew of him, may be in heaven because he knows the Eternal Logos, the Word who exists in Eternity.
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PRmerger
Guest
It’s just a question of semantics. In the end, we are only saved when we die. Either God says to us, “Welcome, good and faithful servant!” or “Depart from me!”
However, salvation is also a continuum. We were saved, we are being saved, and we hope to be saved.
I am already saved: (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5-8)
I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12)
and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9-10, 1 Cor. 3:12-15).
Right back at 'cha! :flowers:
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Nice to meet you, brother Church Militant!
I also recognize a connection between Communion and Passover. Jesus is the Lamb of God, as you yourself probably said.
We’d all be out in the cold—actually, I should say “in the hot”—without the Lamb “who takes away the sins of the world,” as John the Baptist put it.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
This is a good answer, and close to what I was looking for.
Signs, wonders, and miracles (that set people free from bondages of sin, disease, and yes, even physical death) are taking place in many Protestant circles today as well as in Catholic circles.
I agree with you that these are demonstrations-proofs that the true church of Christ is here!
Good going, jm!
Much of what you said about the Mormon Church is inaccurate, but I won’t go there.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Jesus is the Chief Shepherd.
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PRmerger
Guest
This is quite Catholic of you to say, Cal!
Jesus is the Chief Shepherd, and He has a visible shepherd, or chief steward, here on earth.
From our Catechism:
You are the eternal Shepherd
who never leaves his flock untended.
Through the apostles
you watch over us and protect us always.
You made them shepherds of the flock
to share in the work of your Son. . .
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