SPLIT: The origin of the Catholic Church & Constantine

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spina1953 said:
Great post! lots of information. I think that should clear up the misconceptions that crochet lady seems to have.
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Not if she’s not willing to read them with an open mind but rather through her colored lenses. Its easy to accept the claims that some people make when the object of their criticism is something or someone you already mistrust, no matter how spurious or ridiculous the charges are.

And the deeper the mistrust or disdain, its all the more easy to believe the worst about them. And the easier to accept the supposed “good will” of those making the claims against that something or someone.

As St. Augustine wrote: “Since they are unwilling to be deceived, they are unwilling to be convinced that they have been deceived. Therefore, they hate the truth for the sake of whatever it is that they love in place of the truth.”

And for those who write such things against the Church: "And since they are not willing to be deceived, but do wish to deceive, they love truth when she reveals herself and hate her when she reveals them. On this account, she will so repay them that those who are unwilling to be exposed by her she will indeed expose against their will, and yet will not disclose herself to them.

Thus, thus, truly thus: the human mind so blind and sick, so base and ill-mannered, desires to lie hidden, but does not wish that anything should be hidden from it. And yet the opposite is what happens – the mind itself is not hidden from the truth, but the truth is hidden from it."
 
I’ve been doing some more research regarding Bibles and the numbers of books included.

The Holy Scriptures in the Eastern Orthodox Church – I counted 12 “extra” books. – so why does the Catholic Bible only contain 7 or 9 ‘extra’ books?

Wanted to include This info and then will back track and read the other posts 🙂
 
crochet_lady said:
I’ve been doing some more research regarding Bibles and the numbers of books included.

The Holy Scriptures in the Eastern Orthodox Church – I counted 12 “extra” books. – so why does the Catholic Bible only contain 7 or 9 ‘extra’ books?

Wanted to include This info and then will back track and read the other posts 🙂
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The Orthodox do not have an official canon. Their Council of Jerusalem in 1672 tried to establish one, but many Orthodox reject it.
 
spina1953 said:
Great post! lots of information. I think that should clear up the misconceptions that crochet lady seems to have.
Click to expand...
Not if she’s not willing to read them with an open mind but rather through her colored lenses. Its easy to accept the claims that some people make when the object of their criticism is something or someone you already mistrust, no matter how spurious or ridiculous the charges are.

And the deeper the mistrust or disdain, its all the more easy to believe the worst about them. And the easier to accept the supposed “good will” of those making the claims against that something or someone.

As St. Augustine wrote: “Since they are unwilling to be deceived, they are unwilling to be convinced that they have been deceived. Therefore, they hate the truth for the sake of whatever it is that they love in place of the truth.”

And for those who write such things against the Church: "And since they are not willing to be deceived, but do wish to deceive, they love truth when she reveals herself and hate her when she reveals them. On this account, she will so repay them that those who are unwilling to be exposed by her she will indeed expose against their will, and yet will not disclose herself to them.

Thus, thus, truly thus: the human mind so blind and sick, so base and ill-mannered, desires to lie hidden, but does not wish that anything should be hidden from it. And yet the opposite is what happens – the mind itself is not hidden from the truth, but the truth is hidden from it."
 
Amandil said:
Not if she’s not willing to read them with an open mind but rather through her colored lenses. Its easy to accept the claims that some people make when the object of their criticism is something or someone you already mistrust, no matter how spurious or ridiculous the charges are.

And the deeper the mistrust or disdain, its all the more easy to believe the worst about them. And the easier to accept the supposed “good will” of those making the claims against that something or someone.

As St. Augustine wrote: “Since they are unwilling to be deceived, they are unwilling to be convinced that they have been deceived. Therefore, they hate the truth for the sake of whatever it is that they love in place of the truth.”

And for those who write such things against the Church: "And since they are not willing to be deceived, but do wish to deceive, they love truth when she reveals herself and hate her when she reveals them. On this account, she will so repay them that those who are unwilling to be exposed by her she will indeed expose against their will, and yet will not disclose herself to them.

Thus, thus, truly thus: the human mind so blind and sick, so base and ill-mannered, desires to lie hidden, but does not wish that anything should be hidden from it. And yet the opposite is what happens – the mind itself is not hidden from the truth, but the truth is hidden from it."
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Thank you for the Augustine quote. I will use it again - maybe put it in my signature. 👍

Peace!!!
 
Amandil said:
Not if she’s not willing to read them with an open mind but rather through her colored lenses. Its easy to accept the claims that some people make when the object of their criticism is something or someone you already mistrust, no matter how spurious or ridiculous the charges are.

And the deeper the mistrust or disdain, its all the more easy to believe the worst about them. And the easier to accept the supposed “good will” of those making the claims against that something or someone.

As St. Augustine wrote: “Since they are unwilling to be deceived, they are unwilling to be convinced that they have been deceived. Therefore, they hate the truth for the sake of whatever it is that they love in place of the truth.”

And for those who write such things against the Church: "And since they are not willing to be deceived, but do wish to deceive, they love truth when she reveals herself and hate her when she reveals them. On this account, she will so repay them that those who are unwilling to be exposed by her she will indeed expose against their will, and yet will not disclose herself to them.

Thus, thus, truly thus: the human mind so blind and sick, so base and ill-mannered, desires to lie hidden, but does not wish that anything should be hidden from it. And yet the opposite is what happens – the mind itself is not hidden from the truth, but the truth is hidden from it."
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You have made great points in what you wrote. There are things that are false that people believe to be true and things that are true that people believe to be false, so in the end people will believe whatever they want, no matter what others say, or the proofs they give. As St. paul wrote in Thessalonians “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2Thess.2:15) So as St. Paul and as well as many of the ECF’s wrote its not just by Scripture by also by Tradition ( word of mouth) that we are taught. St. John said in his Gospel that not everything Jesus said and did was written down but only that so that one may come to believe. yet, as you already know, there are those who think that their interpretations are the correct one’s and that all others are wrong. They fail to understand that they are being mislead and misinformed creating much misinformation and confusion. Hopefully, one day they might come to know the truth of what the Catholic Church teaches.
 
crochet_lady said:
“What criteria were used to determine the canon of Scripture?”
www.biblical training.org/blog/curious-christian

typing in the title will get you to a good article. 🙂
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I may respond to the criteria the article presents later. But I have one question, crochet lady: what gives you, the author of that article, or any other layperson the authority to (infallibly, I might add) pronounce the criteria used to determine the Biblical canon?
 
Would you be so kind as to provide a link to the rule that says links to anti-Catholic sites are forbidden?
 
Jesus started the Catholic Church.

God created Constantine just like He created all of us.
 
crochet_lady said:
Ya’ll might want to check a few other articles
"Were the early Christians Roman Catholic? - Behind the Badge
www.behindthebadge.net
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I won’t bother with the wiki article as they are often biased and grossly inaccurate, but I will respond with a link to an article on my own blog that will in fact show that the early Christians were indeed Catholic.
What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?
JamesTheJust said:
I may respond to the criteria the article presents later. But I have one question, crochet lady: what gives you, the author of that article, or any other layperson the authority to (infallibly, I might add) pronounce the criteria used to determine the Biblical canon?
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Isn’t that article what is called “revisionist”?

Most times n-Cs seem to fail to look at who it was that was doing that discernment and canonization.
 
Yes true but I don’t see linking to a site that is critical of the Catholic Church to be disrespectful. Even if the criticism is false how can those who believe it receive correction?
 
crochet_lady said:
Ya’ll might want to check a few other articles
"Were the early Christians Roman Catholic? - Behind the Badge
www.behindthebadge.net

Constantine the Great
en wikipedia

History of the Cathollic Church
wikipedia 1st was Emporer Constantine 1 (313) and then 380 Theodosius 1
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Dear crochet lady,

I am in the process of reading your link. The first think was that it was written by a Mary Ann Collins who seems not to exist. She claims to be a former nun yet she doesn’t seem to know the basics of what it is to be a Catholic. If she lies about one thing, how can you trust her?
 
adrift said:
Dear crochet lady,

I am in the process of reading your link. The first think was that it was written by a Mary Ann Collins who seems not to exist. She claims to be a former nun yet she doesn’t seem to know the basics of what it is to be a Catholic. If she lies about one thing, how can you trust her?
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Yeah…she has even less substance as that guy Alberto that Jack Chick makes such a big deal about.
 
James the Just #48

Apparently you didn’t read the article or you wouldn’t have made that comment. It might also interest you to realize that the Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit to various Godly men over a period of 1500 or so years. So it wasn’t the decision of ‘one man’ as to what was accepted or rejected over the years.

There Have been various articles written by various people Explaining the criteria used over those many years.
 
crochet_lady said:
James the Just #48

Apparently you didn’t read the article or you wouldn’t have made that comment. It might also interest you to realize that the Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit to various Godly men over a period of 1500 or so years. So it wasn’t the decision of ‘one man’ as to what was accepted or rejected over the years.

There Have been various articles written by various people Explaining the criteria used over those many years.
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I don’t know if you realize but the link doesn’t work. 🤷
 
crochet_lady said:
James the Just #48

Apparently you didn’t read the article or you wouldn’t have made that comment. It might also interest you to realize that the Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit to various Godly men over a period of 1500 or so years. So it wasn’t the decision of ‘one man’ as to what was accepted or rejected over the years.

There Have been various articles written by various people Explaining the criteria used over those many years.
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I did read the article, thank you (the link didn’t work, but I figured it out).

Of course the Holy Spirit inspired the various books of the Bible over a period of 1500 years. This is a universal doctrine of Christianity. But how do we determine which books He did inspire? How do we determine the criteria for divine inspiration?

Did the Holy Spirit speak to Martin Luther and tell him which books to accept or reject? Did He speak to you? To the author of the article? To any layperson? The answer, of course, is no. So no layperson has the authority to determine which books are inspired, or the criteria for doing so.
 
Church_Militant said:
Yeah…she has even less substance as that guy Alberto that Jack Chick makes such a big deal about.
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Sound like this Mary Collins was agnostic then fell in love with a Catholic guy and somehow decided to join a convent for 2 yrs as a novice - she never took her vows. She eventually ran into enough bad homilies that she left the convent and drank the protestant’s kool aid
 
crochet_lady said:
James the Just #48

Apparently you didn’t read the article or you wouldn’t have made that comment. It might also interest you to realize that the Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit to various Godly men over a period of 1500 or so years. So it wasn’t the decision of ‘one man’ as to what was accepted or rejected over the years.

There Have been various articles written by various people Explaining the criteria used over those many years.
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After finally getting through all the posts and reading the links … Yep - heard all of this before … it kind of boils down to …You Catholics just don’t get it because you listen to the Pope and the Church and the Church got it all wrong …

So really - trust me - this is what you need to do … just read the bible and believe me and whomever I get my information from - because all you really need is the Bible to know whats what … oh yes and this is how you understand what you read …

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

All these Protestants don’t realize that they alternate between making their individual pastors a Pope and themselves a Pope - or the guy who wrote the last blog, website, article or book that they found inspiring … and of course - everybody know which 66 books comprise the Bible and why … silly Catholics :rolleyes:

Trust me - I’d rather follow the consistent teaching of the Church throughout history and leadership Jesus left it with faith in His promise to protect the Church through eternity
 
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