SPLIT: What did Christ teach that wasn't written,and if it wasn't written how can you be sure He taught it?

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n2thelight,

I’m a little confused here. In post 113, you site Dr. Rice’s works have nothing to do with Salvation theory (a tradition of man, by the way).

Then in post 117, you switch to “our works are judged by God”.

Am I missing something here?
 
Hi All
This is taken right from the link that you pointed us to, the words that are bold actually disprove you argument.

This is obviously NOT speaking of Saints since they already lead a quiet and peaceable life.
Where does it say that? Christ prophecied that the saints would often suffer in this life in order to be with Him in the next? When did Christ promise “peace and quiet” for those saints still living?
I could be wrong but I think that the Saints are already saved and know the truth.
You are absolutlely 100% accurate in this statement - not the “saved and know the truth” part, but the fact that “you could be wrong”. 😉

There are many saints that are still working out their salvation in fear and trembling.
 
Notworthy
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrancis
Sola Versura…I like it!
Yes, it’s the only way I can figure that someone can ignore all of Jesus’ teachings on performing good works for our brothers and sisters and still think heaven is all about simply believing and being saved.
Let me break it down for ya,once I accept Christ as my Lord and Savoir,and believe opon him as stated in John 3:16 I do not (technically)have to do anything else in life until i die but repent of my sins as I go along,and I will get to Heaven(His promise)

However I will receive as my reward,that which I have worked for,thats why works are the only thing you can take to Heaven

Matthew 16:27 (Whole Chapter)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Works have nothing to do with salvation,works will determine the amount of my reward in Heaven,when Christ returns.If I did nothing,than I will get nothing,however! because of John 3:16 I will be there.

And besides all that,that I feel that it is impossible for a true Christain to not do works

Let’s look at the book of James

James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

This is how any man is judged by God or another man; you are judged by what you do that others can see. It is important to confess Christ to others, and repent of your sins to the Heavenly Father in Jesus name, but the degree that others will believe you, is by the action that you do through your works. Works will not save you alone, it is faith that saves you, and what makes your faith believable is the works that are produced by your faith. It is impossible for anyone to have faith in our Father and His Word, and know His overall plan, and not be doing works in your life. The one produces the other. You simply cannot pray for the wisdom from God, and the blessings from God, and not do something about it through your works. It is an impossibility.

Revelation 14:13 “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

" Here is God speaking from heaven, and He is letting you know once and for all, your works do count, and they will follow you right into eternity. For the seeds of the words you plant in the minds of those around you, will be well rewarded, and every work you do in the name of the Lord is remembered, and will have it’s reward also in the eternity."

But all works are not good works,but thats another study
 
Let me break it down for ya,once I accept Christ as my Lord and Savoir,and believe opon him as stated in John 3:16 I do not (technically)have to do anything else in life until i die but repent of my sins as I go along,and I will get to Heaven(His promise)

However I will receive as my reward,that which I have worked for,thats why works are the only thing you can take to Heaven

Matthew 16:27 (Whole Chapter)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Works have nothing to do with salvation,works will determine the amount of my reward in Heaven,when Christ returns.If I did nothing,than I will get nothing,however! because of John 3:16 I will be there.

And besides all that,that I feel that it is impossible for a true Christain to not do works

Let’s look at the book of James

James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

This is how any man is judged by God or another man; you are judged by what you do that others can see. It is important to confess Christ to others, and repent of your sins to the Heavenly Father in Jesus name, but the degree that others will believe you, is by the action that you do through your works. Works will not save you alone, it is faith that saves you, and what makes your faith believable is the works that are produced by your faith. It is impossible for anyone to have faith in our Father and His Word, and know His overall plan, and not be doing works in your life. The one produces the other. You simply cannot pray for the wisdom from God, and the blessings from God, and not do something about it through your works. It is an impossibility.

Revelation 14:13 “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

" Here is God speaking from heaven, and He is letting you know once and for all, your works do count, and they will follow you right into eternity. For the seeds of the words you plant in the minds of those around you, will be well rewarded, and every work you do in the name of the Lord is remembered, and will have it’s reward also in the eternity."

But all works are not good works,but thats another study
in2thelight, you seem to believe that Catholics teach that we can “work our way into heaven”.

You do good works because you love Christ and He promised you great rewards in heaven. How is that different from what Catholics teach?

And this still seems to fly in the face of your quote from Dr. Rice who seems to think that works are our vain way of “earning our way into heaven”.

Let me further elaborate (or, “Let me break it down for ya”), Dr. Rice seems to think that Christians enter Baptism with the attitude, “OK, I’m Baptized, now I’ve earned heaven”. But this is where I think non-Catholic beliefs of Catholics teachings on good works fall short. We believe that, in following Christ’s commands to be baptized, that when we enter Baptism we say, “Christ, I believe in Your Promises…”. We know we haven’t earned anything, but we trust God to keep His Promises to His Children.
 
Let me break it down for ya,once I accept Christ as my Lord and Savoir,and believe opon him as stated in John 3:16 I do not (technically)have to do anything else in life until i die but repent of my sins as I go along,and I will get to Heaven(His promise)
Jesus Christ referred to those who don’t perform works of mercy as goats, and they didn’t get a reward, but a punishment.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
N2thelight,
You stated:
Works have nothing to do with salvation,works will determine the amount of my reward in Heaven,
Just wondering: along with eternal life and praising the King of Kings and Lord of Lords forever and ever, what “rewards” are there in heaven? Better seats? Cars? Money? I’ve heard this line of reasoning before, but have not received an answer as to what are the “rewards” in heaven, which is perfect and in which we are prefected, which means we want for nothing, for God fully satisfies us.

Also, please answer this:
Who wrote the Gospel of Matthew and how do you know it is inspired?
 
Let me break it down for ya,once I accept Christ as my Lord and Savoir,and believe opon him as stated in John 3:16 I do not (technically)have to do anything else in life until i die but repent of my sins as I go along,and I will get to Heaven(His promise)
If a Catholic said exactly this, we’d be accused of preaching a “different Gospel” because John 3:16 requires only that we “believe,” and you just added the “work” of repentance. John 3:16 doesn’t tell us to “repent,” so why are you “adding” to the requirements of salvation by saying we must “repent,” not just “believe”? That is how insane these arguments sound to Catholics.

Are you under the impression that Catholics think we must “work” our way to heaven? We don’t. The Catholic Church condemned “salvation by works” as the heresy of Pelagianism over 1000 years ago. We don’t believe anyone can “earn” heaven. But when we say exactly what you did — that one must repent of sins as one goes along in life – we are accused of believing in “salvation by works.”

Sacraments are not works. Sacraments are gifts we receive from Jesus, not works that we perform for Jesus.

As pointed out above, we’re far adrift from the thread topic. Do you have further questions about how we know what Christ taught which is not in Scripture?
 
NotWorthy;3871345]Where does it say that? Christ prophecied that the saints would often suffer in this life in order to be with Him in the next? When did Christ promise “peace and quiet” for those saints still living?
Hi NW
Please go back and read my post so you give you opinion more accurately.
When you pray to Saints aren’t you praying to the Saints that are already in Heaven? If they are in Heaven, aren’t they at peace?. I was referring to those Saints in Heaven that You pray to.
You are absolutlely 100% accurate in this statement - not the “saved and know the truth” part, but the fact that “you could be wrong”. 😉
There are many saints that are still working out their salvation in fear and trembling.
Why do you feel the need to get nasty?
 
Will address that council thing next post,but as far as 1corinth
11-15 its not talking about some purgatory,its talking about the only thing you can take with you to heaven,and that is your works

I Corinthians 3:11 “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

Jesus Christ is the only foundation that you can build on, and have it eternal. Everything on the face of this earth that you can construct with hands is very temporary, for the construction that we are talking about is your spiritual house, which is your soul. The foundation for that house is Jesus Christ Himself.

I Corinthians 3:12 “Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;”

When you build any structure, one of the important things to consider is that structures ability to withstand fire. Our God is a consuming fire, and every one of these materials will be destroyed under the heat of God’s fire. As gold or silver are heated under fire each of these are purified and gets better as the heat is turned up. However we know that wood, hay and stubble are turned to ashes when as the same flames devour them.

If you are going to build your life on Jesus Christ, it had better be genuine, and from your heart. Though we all sin and fall short of God’s standard from time to time, however at repentance for those sins God gives us new life.
Who says it’s not genuine? I believe in God with all my heart, and I know that it is by His grace alone that I am saved. My works become an organic part of this belief in God, and I understand that they are required (with notable exception to those who repent in dire need) to make manifest in the eyes of God my faith in Christ Jesus.

Do not fool yourself in to the false understanding of Catholics as teaching “works salvation”; on the contrary, we are ardently opposed to it. Yet as Catholics, we do not deny that they are a necessary part of the life of someone who walks in Christ.
I Corinthians 3:13 “Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.”
We are talking about “works” here, and every man’s works are going to be made known for the intentions that those works were given. When you do the work of God, and diligently seek to please Him in all that you do, God will give you credit for those works. Friend, it is God only that gives the increase, however we plant the seeds and prepare the seeds so that the Holy Spirit can do the work and convict that man of his sin. When you teach God’s word to the point that others come to the understanding of God’s love for them, the conviction comes only by the drawing of the Sprit of God. You may have the gift of teaching or preaching, but the test as to your ability to use your gifts is whether that person remains in the Word.
You’re missing something here: there is a considerable period of time between death for some, and the Final Day. What, then, happens to the people that had to wait for so long until this final day?

You’ve suddenly stumbled upon the difference between particular judgment. The penitent thief, for example, was told by Christ, “This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise”. He was given his reward in death; no need to wait till the Day in order to receive this reward. In scripture (especially the Apocalypse), we find reference to the general, or last judgment; this is what Revelations is referring to, not the individual judgment of man, but of all.

I suggest you go read some information on it. You’ll see how long the ideas of particular and final judgment have been around (far before the Council of Trent); and how purgatory has been tied in to the particular judgment of those who die in Christ, yet still have not repaid their debt.

Catholics believe the blood of Christ accomplishes perfectly what it was meant to do: to save us from eternal damnation. Yet never does it imply that our sins are completely forgiven in this life; why then would we have to be judged again on that Day, when we’ve already been judged at the time of our death?
 
Will address that council thing next post,but as far as 1corinth
11-15 its not talking about some purgatory,its talking about the only thing you can take with you to heaven,and that is your works

I Corinthians 3:11 “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

Jesus Christ is the only foundation that you can build on, and have it eternal. Everything on the face of this earth that you can construct with hands is very temporary, for the construction that we are talking about is your spiritual house, which is your soul. The foundation for that house is Jesus Christ Himself.

I Corinthians 3:12 “Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;”

When you build any structure, one of the important things to consider is that structures ability to withstand fire. Our God is a consuming fire, and every one of these materials will be destroyed under the heat of God’s fire. As gold or silver are heated under fire each of these are purified and gets better as the heat is turned up. However we know that wood, hay and stubble are turned to ashes when as the same flames devour them.

**If you are going to build your life on Jesus Christ, it had better be genuine, and from your heart. **Though we all sin and fall short of God’s standard from time to time, however at repentance for those sins God gives us new life.

(snip)
The two Highlighted statements above are the best and truest testament of Christian Truth.

And what better way to build your life on Jesus Christ than to build it within His body which is His One Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church?

Peace
James
 
Hi NW
Please go back and read my post so you give you opinion more accurately.
When you pray to Saints aren’t you praying to the Saints that are already in Heaven? If they are in Heaven, aren’t they at peace?. I was referring to those Saints in Heaven that You pray to.
Ahhhhh, my bad. But doesn’t Revelation say that there are saints offering up the prayers as incense.
Why do you feel the need to get nasty?
Me nasty? Aren’t we allowed to pick with one another? It helps to keep the tone light-hearted. Its when people stop picking and talking about how the other is going to hell that it gets mean and nasty. I’m usually out of those threads long before then.

BTW, sorry if I offended, but I was just pickin’. 🙂 Can you forgive me? Uuhhhhhh… unless that’s considered a work. 😉
 
The following is from the book, Vicars of Christ, by a former Jesuit professor at Gregorian University in Rome, Peter DeRosa:
Code:
    "It was in the area of indulgences that (Pope) Sixtus showed a touch of genius. He was the first pontiff to decide that they could be applied to the dead. Even he was overwhelmed by their popularity. Here was an infinite source of revenue that even his greediest predecessors had not dreamed of. It was breathtaking in its implications: the pope, creature of flesh and blood, had power over the regions of the dead. Souls in torment for their misdemeanours could be released by his word, provided their pious relatives dipped into.their pockets. And which of them wouldn't if they had a spark of Christian decency? Widows and widowers, bereaved parents spent their all trying to get their loved ones out of Purgatory, painted in ever more lurid colours. 
    Praying for the dead was one thing, paying for them another. Simple folk were led to believe that the pope, or those who came to their village and sold the pope's pardon, guaranteed their dead would go to heaven on the wings of indulgences. The potential for abuse was considerable. The sale of relics from the tenth century had been bad enough. . . Martyr's bones, like oil, were not a renewable commodity, but indulgences were limitless and could be priced to suit every pocket. Nothing was required of the donor or recipient, not love or compassion or prayer or repentance - only money. No practice was ever more irreligious than this. The pope grew rich in the measure that the poor were duped."
    Purgatory had no justification, whether in Scripture or in logic. Its real basis was papal avarice. An Englishman, Simon Fish, in A Supplicacyion for the Beggars, written in the year 1529, was to point that out irrefutably: 

'There is not one word spoken of it in all holy Scripture, and also if the Pope with his pardons may for money deliver one soul hence, he may deliver him as well without money.  If he may deliver one, he may deliver a thousand: if he may deliver a thousand, he may deliver them all; and so destroy purgatory.  And then he is a cruel tyrant, without all charity, if he keep them there in prison and in pain, till men will give him money.' "
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The following is from the book, Vicars of Christ, by a former Jesuit professor at Gregorian University in Rome, Peter DeRosa:
Code:
    "It was in the area of indulgences that (Pope) Sixtus showed a touch of genius. He was the first pontiff to decide that they could be applied to the dead. Even he was overwhelmed by their popularity. Here was an infinite source of revenue that even his greediest predecessors had not dreamed of. It was breathtaking in its implications: the pope, creature of flesh and blood, had power over the regions of the dead. Souls in torment for their misdemeanours could be released by his word, provided their pious relatives dipped into.their pockets. And which of them wouldn't if they had a spark of Christian decency? Widows and widowers, bereaved parents spent their all trying to get their loved ones out of Purgatory, painted in ever more lurid colours. 
    Praying for the dead was one thing, paying for them another. Simple folk were led to believe that the pope, or those who came to their village and sold the pope's pardon, guaranteed their dead would go to heaven on the wings of indulgences. The potential for abuse was considerable. The sale of relics from the tenth century had been bad enough. . . Martyr's bones, like oil, were not a renewable commodity, but indulgences were limitless and could be priced to suit every pocket. Nothing was required of the donor or recipient, not love or compassion or prayer or repentance - only money. No practice was ever more irreligious than this. The pope grew rich in the measure that the poor were duped."
    Purgatory had no justification, whether in Scripture or in logic. Its real basis was papal avarice. An Englishman, Simon Fish, in A Supplicacyion for the Beggars, written in the year 1529, was to point that out irrefutably: 

'There is not one word spoken of it in all holy Scripture, and also if the Pope with his pardons may for money deliver one soul hence, he may deliver him as well without money.  If he may deliver one, he may deliver a thousand: if he may deliver a thousand, he may deliver them all; and so destroy purgatory.  And then he is a cruel tyrant, without all charity, if he keep them there in prison and in pain, till men will give him money.' "
from redirecting to current file-name & location
Oh my. You might want to go read some stuff by the Early Church Fathers; here might be a good place to start.

I’ve considered responding to some of the earlier posts, N2, yet I can’t bring myself to acknowledge them for one fact: you are never going to accept what I say simply because I, and every other Catholic here, speak from paradosis, the Sacred Tradition handed through the ages.

Until you realize that there is no such thing as “self-attesting Scripture” and that Sacred Tradition is an absolute necessity in interpreting Scripture, then this argument may as well be for naught. I prayerfully ask you, in all charity and good faith, to seriously examine your views. “Test everything, hold on to the good.”

Ask yourself “why do I interpret the Bible the way I do? Is this not also a tradition?” Arians once tried to disprove the Trinity with Scripture, and did so almost successfully; yet the Holy Spirit led our Church in to Truth. When Christ says, “The Father and I are one,” the Arians argued that He meant one in purpose, not in being. The early Church faught long and hard to cast out this heresy, and did so only because the doctrine of the Trinity had been handed down through Tradition.

In fact, it was this Apostolic paradosis with which the Catholic Church has always interpreted Scripture, and through this very same paradosis was the early Church able to defend itself against those who would throw out what had already been held to be true by the faithful.

Beliefs concerning purgatory, veneration of the Saints (dulia) and Mary (hyperdulia), and other things that heretics might deny have been around since the very beginning of the Church, though as time progressed, the beliefs became better defined and understood. To deny this is to embrace ignorance of the history of Christianity; the same people who honored Mary were the same people who were blessed with martyrdom for His sake. These same people, who lived during the Apostolic period (ending with the death of John the Evangelist), were those who defended the Church from paganism. St. Nicholas of Myra (270-343 AD) opposed Arius, St. Polycarp of Smyrna (69-155 AD) opposed Marcion, and the list goes on.

Yet even with compelling historical arguments, you most likely will not accept the Truth that you have been exposed to. At one time, I was on your side of the fence; yet through the very grace of God, I opened my heart to the Lord. And when I did that, I could only find Truth in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

I pray that through the intercessions of Mary and all the Saints you may be brought to truth in Christ; truth which only the Church most rightly and fully-ordered through time may expound, by the light of Sacred Scripture through the lens of Sacred Tradition.
 
JLongoria
Beliefs concerning purgatory, veneration of the Saints (dulia) and Mary (hyperdulia), and other things that heretics might deny have been around since the very beginning of the Church, though as time progressed, the beliefs became better defined and understood. To deny this is to embrace ignorance of the history of Christianity; the same people who honored Mary were the same people who were blessed with martyrdom for His sake. These same people, who lived during the Apostolic period (ending with the death of John the Evangelist), were those who defended the Church from paganism. St. Nicholas of Myra (270-343 AD) opposed Arius, St. Polycarp of Smyrna (69-155 AD) opposed Marcion, and the list goes on./QUOTE
I understand what you are saying,but my problem is,why is it not scriptual,I mean something as important as purgatory must be in scripture,yet its not.
You all do things that is clearly against the wishes of God
For example Catholic’s refer to Mary as the Queen of Heaven
but in every place this term is used in the Bible it is as an abomination Let me use this one verse for an example
Jeremiah 7:18 (Whole Chapter)
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
Why did’nt this verse read other Queens of Heaven?
Your tradition says that Mary was without sin,but my Bible clearly says otherwise,you say she was ever virgin again my Bible says otherwise.
You say you don’t pray to her,but I can give you quotes from popes during speaches they have made,that clearly say differently.
And that brings me to the Pope,I don’t believe Peter was the first Pope or even for that matter,a Pope at all,and if you all can’t trace this(popes)all the way back to Peter,what do you have?
Bout to get off work,will give greater detail to this post later
 
The following is from the book, Vicars of Christ, by a former Jesuit professor at Gregorian University in Rome, Peter DeRosa:
As usual with many of those who attack Catholic teaching, N2tL has chosen a faulty source that even the church doesn’t adhere to. Why would we?
In 1974 a Roman Catholic scholar called Peter deRosa published a book called Jesus Who Became Christ. (Incidentally, not long before that, Peter deRosa, after an impressive academic career, had been dismissed as Vice-Principal of Corpus Christi College, London. That was a college for training Catholic teachers, which the Catholic Church closed down because it was becoming too radical.)
Citation of source: Not a Catholic one at all, but at least honest about its source.
"It was in the area of indulgences that (Pope) Sixtus showed a touch of genius. He was the first pontiff to decide that they could be applied to the dead. Even he was overwhelmed by their popularity. Here was an infinite source of revenue that even his greediest predecessors had not dreamed of. It was breathtaking in its implications: the pope, creature of flesh and blood, had power over the regions of the dead. Souls in torment for their misdemeanours could be released by his word, provided their pious relatives dipped into.their pockets. And which of them wouldn’t if they had a spark of Christian decency? Widows and widowers, bereaved parents spent their all trying to get their loved ones out of Purgatory, painted in ever more lurid colours.
Conjecture of a faulty “scholar” with an axe to grind. 🤷 Rhetorical propaganda at its worst…
Praying for the dead …
More empty polemical rhetoric… :rolleyes:
Purgatory had no justification, whether in Scripture or in logic. Its real basis was papal avarice.
This is completely untrue. Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory
An Englishman, Simon Fish, in A Supplicacyion for the Beggars, written in the year 1529, was to point that out irrefutably:
Code:
'There is not one word spoken of it in all holy Scripture, and also if the Pope with his pardons may for money deliver one soul hence, he may deliver him as well without money.  If he may deliver one, he may deliver a thousand: if he may deliver a thousand, he may deliver them all; and so destroy purgatory.  And then he is a cruel tyrant, without all charity, if he keep them there in prison and in pain, till men will give him money.' "
St. Thomas More refuted that reformation heresy in his “Supplication of Souls”.

However, one need only objectively see my own research in the link above to discern that the anti-Catholic propaganda is in error since there is shown both scriptural substantiation and documentation from verifiable Jewish sources that they share a similar belief.

The allegation that there is not scriptural support for Purgatory is merely more propaganda based upon Sola Scriptura, the fundamental errant heresy of the Reformation that has caused the cascading myriad of so very many other errors and heresies, even to this day. 🤷
 
The following is from the book, Vicars of Christ, by a former Jesuit professor at Gregorian University in Rome, Peter DeRosa:
Peter DeRosa also wrote a book entitled “How Jesus Became Christ.”

westarinstitute.org/Periodicals/4R_Articles/Jesus_to_God/jesus_to_god.html

So you’re quoting from a guy who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Is that your authority? Did YOU read Peter DeRosa’s book which you quoted? Or did you cut and paste from another site? I ask because it would be questionable for you to knowingly resort to quoting an author who denies Jesus is the Christ as an authority on religious subjects. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

We’ve shown you above that the Bible supports prayer for the dead (2 Macc 12:43-46; 2 Tim 1:15). The only “man-made tradition” here is the refusal to pray for the dead.
 
I understand what you are saying,but my problem is,why is it not scriptual,I mean something as important as purgatory must be in scripture,yet its not.

You all do things that is clearly against the wishes of God

For example Catholic’s refer to Mary as the Queen of Heavenbut in every place this term is used in the Bible it is as an abomination Let me use this one verse for an example

Jeremiah 7:18 (Whole Chapter)
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Why did’nt this verse read other Queens of Heaven?
Pagans refer to their false Gods with the term “god.” Their gods were abominations. Does that mean our God is an abomination? No!

Our Queen of Heaven has nothing whatsoever to do with paganism. In Hebrew culture, the King’s mother held the position called Queen Mother. The Queen Mother had no power of her own – hers was a position of respect, not authority.

God is King. Mary is the Mother of God. Therefore Mary is our Queen Mother. The title has nothing whatsoever to do with pagan ‘queens of heaven’ any more than pagan ‘gods’ have to do with the real God.
 
Your tradition says that Mary was without sin,but my Bible clearly says otherwise,you say she was ever virgin again my Bible says otherwise.
No, the Bible never says that Mary was a sinner. Just the opposite. The Bible says that Mary was “full of grace” (Luke 1:28) meaning she could not have been a sinner. You might be thinking of Luke 1:47 where Mary calls God her savior. That’s precisely what the Immaculate Conception was: Jesus saving Mary from all sin at the moment of her conception. Catholics agree that Jesus saved Mary, but no verse says Mary was a sinner.

Nor does the Bible say Mary had any other children. That’s a man-made tradition found nowhere in Scripture. At the Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38), an angel appeared and told Mary that she would bear a child who would receive David’s throne. Amid the wonder and splendor of an angelic visitation, with an angel telling her an amazing future for her child, Mary asked one question: “How can this be, since I do not know man?” Luke 1:34. If Mary had intended to engage in marital relations, this is the one question she wouldn’t ask – she would know exactly “how this could be,” through normal marital relations. Her asking how she could possibly bear a child shows that she had no intention of engaging in marital relations.

It was fitting that no one else enter this world by the way through which Jesus entered this world. “Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east; and it was shut. And he said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut,” Ez. 44:1-2.

“Brothers of Jesus” is a common argument relying on limited biblical literacy. Scripture uses “brother” as a broad term. Both Hebrew and Greek lack proper words for “cousin,” “uncle,” “nephew” and similar relationships, so the catch-all phrase “brother” is used in reference to those relationships. For example, Scripture calls Lot Abram’s “brother” (Gen 13:8) even though Lot was actually Abram’s nephew (Gen 11:27; Gen. 12:5).

Misunderstanding the term “brother’ leads to misinterpretation of Mark 6:3. “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” Mark 6:3. Had Mary borne any children other than Jesus, Mark 6:3 would call Jesus “a son of Mary,” not “the son of Mary.” We know from Scripture that James and Joses were the sons of a different Mary: “There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee,” Matt 27:55-56. “Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid,” Mark 15:47. John’s Gospel tells us this Mary was the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus. “But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene,” John 19:25.

Since the Virgin Mary had a sister named Mary (John 19:25) who was the mother of James and Joses (Matt 27:56) it follows that the word “brother”as used in Mark 6:3 must translate as “cousin.”
 
I understand what you are saying,but my problem is,why is it not scriptual,I mean something as important as purgatory must be in scripture,yet its not
According to you…However, you are scripturally wrong, as I point out above.
You all do things that is clearly against the wishes of God
An allegation based no doubt upon too much gullible exposure to virulently anti-Catholic propagandists. I suggest that you question your sources because they are wrong and begin to do your own homework while prayerfully seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit into all truth.
For example Catholic’s refer to Mary as the Queen of Heaven
but in every place this term is used in the Bible it is as an abomination Let me use this one verse for an example
Jeremiah 7:18 (Whole Chapter)
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
Why did’nt this verse read other Queens of Heaven?
Do you worship the King of Kings? Yet that title was also given to godless kings in the OT, does that make the title wrong when applied as it should be? No, it does not. The same thing applies in this case.

Ezra 7:12 Artaxerxes king of kings to Ezra the priest, the most learned scribe of the law of the God of heaven, greeting.

Ezechiel 26:7 For thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will bring against Tyre Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon, the king of kings, from the north, with horses, and chariots, and horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Daniel 2:37 Thou art a king of kings: and the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, and strength, and power, and glory:

2nd Maccabees 13:4 But the King of kings stirred up the mind of Antiochus against the sinner, and upon Lysias suggesting that he was the cause of all the evils, he commanded (as the custom is with them) that he should be apprehended and put to death in the same place.

1st Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall show who is the Blessed and only Mighty, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Revelation 17:14 These shall fight with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because he is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and they that are with him are called, and elect, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his garment, and on his thigh written: KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Your tradition says that Mary was without sin,but my Bible clearly says otherwise,
I beg to differ, the Bible does indeed teach the Immaculate Conception. Immaculate Conception and Assumptionand Mary: Full of Grace (Fathers*)
you say she was ever virgin again my Bible says otherwise.
Your Bible says no such thing sir, your errant teachers and preachers have taught you that. Mary: Ever Virgin (Fathers*) , in fact all three “Pillars of the Reformation” taught and preached this. The Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
You say you don’t pray to her,but I can give you quotes from popes during speaches they have made,that clearly say differently.
Knock yourself out…My Catholic brothers and sisters and I will be here to prove that what you offer will have been taken out of context by people who wish that this was true.
And that brings me to the Pope,I don’t believe Peter was the first Pope or even for that matter,a Pope at all,and if you all can’t trace this(popes)all the way back to Peter,what do you have?
An unbroken line of apostolic succession. The same cannot be even remotely asserted by your own faith community, whatever it may be. 🤷
Bout to get off work,will give greater detail to this post later
And we’ll be here…
 
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