spooning

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Toth - “truly do not understand people who let the issue of withholding affection go on for so long. If i woke up one morning and decided I would no longer go to work because I didn’t feel like it I bet my wife would demand I resolve my issues pretty quickly. I’m kinda surprised you let her dictate everything to you like that. Maybe you should stand up for yourself a little more.”

Well, I know you are not suggesting I rape her. But if she refuses what am I to do?

Frankly, I have been hurt by a few issues.
  1. the thought that she can’t find it in her heart to give me 2 minutes a month (which is as long as I last typically - she doesn’t like foreplay so I have to go right into the sex act right away) has hurt me. This was last year, before it dropped off even more.
  2. she claimed to be too busy to get me anything for valentines day. I got her the usual flowers and chocolate (this is before the diabeties situation blew up). She did rush out that day and get stuff for me after she realized that I had got her stuff. I should point out that I did not to a lot for her last mother’s day. My excuse was that I asked her for money to spend and she basically said we did not have any - no excuse I will admit it now.
  3. for mother’s day I brought her and the kids to the country club for brunch. She did not thank me (an oversight I am sure). Then at night we played a game of apples to apples. I retured a card to the wrong part of the card deck and she got very angry at me claiming I never listen to her. She got up from the game and went to the computer. My son was devastated and started to cry as he had tried to hard to give her a nice day. She had him write a letter to her stating what was bothering him. He did and both her and I tried to be extra nice to him.
However, she did not seem concerned in the least about me. That hurt a great deal. No I never let her know.
 
What would happen if you stopped turning over all of your money to her?
 
By this point you should have an idea of how much it costs to run your home. You do have a right to pocket $100 a month for personal fun if it doesn’t take food out of the kids’ mouths.

If the rest goes to maintain the common good, you DO have a right to some set amount of spending cash.

Though some of the best gifts are free. A computer-generated coupon book promising a child-free afternoon for her to go do what she wants, foot massages, window washing, whatever…

Her refusal to care for her own health is disturbing. I presume she wants someday to end up as an amputee? If that were me, I’d be real nice to my husband because he’d end up having to care for me.

The making the kid cry and then making him write her a letter telling her what his problem was is not fair.

But look for comments like “You never listen to me.” Is that true? Do you routinely disregard what she says and now she sees all of life through that lens?

You can’t change her. You can only change how YOU behave and often that causes the other person to (fill in the blank) relax, trust, become happier, become more affectionate, become less angry…
 
SamSmith said:
Well, I know you are not suggesting I rape her. But if she refuses what am I to do?
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I don’t really know. What would you do if she started running up huge gambling debts are selling crack out of your house? I bet you would insist she get some help. What she is doing by refusing affection is much worse than any of those other things so why put up with it? I am saying I wouldn’t take the abuse and I don’t think there is any reason for you to either.
 
*Please get help for both you and your wife, Sam. She needs serious counseling, I believe, from what you post here, and you both need couples counseling. The whole dynamic is WAY off as to how a healthy marriage (remotely) operates. My marriage is far from perfect…my husband and I argue at times. But, what I’m most concerned with, is that your kids are going to pick up on this dysfunction, and think this is how married people live by playing games, only buying someone something if the other does, chronic complaining, stomping off over minor things, hiding money from the other, the husband cowering down from his wife, mom treating dad like a kid, etc etc.

Praying that things improve. I really think you could both benefit from counseling. Now, she has to stop blaming you for EVERY SINGLE THING that is ‘‘wrong’’ in her life. She is also to blame. She is very negative. She sees things in her own way–you are always the bad guy, she is always the victim. It’s not healthy. I’m sure there are times when you are in the wrong, but she blames you for far too much. *
 
Liberanosamalo said:
But look for comments like “You never listen to me.” Is that true? Do you routinely disregard what she says and now she sees all of life through that lens?

You can’t change her. You can only change how YOU behave and often that causes the other person to (fill in the blank) relax, trust, become happier, become more affectionate, become less angry…
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“You never listen to me” or “You don’t really care about me” are also hallmarks of a narcissist or an Adult Child of an Alcoholic.

I wonder if the OP’s wife discounts the nice things that he does for her, saying that they “don’t count” for one reason or another.

He makes the money. He should not be in a position of just turning it over to her and not knowing what the expenses are. It seems like he has lost a lot of the “power” that he should have as a husband and as a provider because he completely surrenders all control of the money to her.
 
*When people ask…’‘how can a woman possibly be abusive to her husband?’’ THIS is how. Sam, whether you accept it or not, your kids are learning this behavior. 😦 I pray pray pray that you both find a good counselor. Take care. *
 
SamSmith said:
  1. the thought that she can’t find it in her heart to give me 2 minutes a month (which is as long as I last typically - she doesn’t like foreplay Say WHAT??? I did not know that it was possible for a woman to dislike foreplay! 🤷 so I have to go right into the sex act right away) has hurt me. This was last year, before it dropped off even more.
    …
    However, she did not seem concerned in the least about me. That hurt a great deal. No I never let her know.
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You should let her know…calmly…before ‘the dam gets busted!’
 
I suggested many pages ago he needs to get involved more in the family finances and there has to be openness… both with the expenses required of his business and with the bills she is paying. It obviously stresses her to sit down and pay the bills. Maybe he should take that job back and do it. I am of the mind every woman should know exactly what is going on in her family finances. And there might not be lots of money. Even though he makes the money, it would be wrong not to turn it over to the management of the household. Many husbands keep large parts for themselves and leave a pittance for the wife to pay things. It’s a form of financial abuse. This was done to me. The OP doesn’t do that. To his credit. But I think he should be able to take a little every month so he has spending cash for things. And it should be up front and the wife should know about it. No secrets.

The more you tell about her physically and the things that are going on… her lack of care for herself and her depressive mood swings… she really needs to get counselling. At some point she will chase her own children out of her life.
 
How did you two managed to get 5 kids? :confused:

Was it always like this? Did something happen in her life? [a miscarriage or something?]

She sounds depressed, not mean, to me…more like desperate than arbitrary.

This is not good for anyone, you , the kids, her…God…

I would sit with her…and little by little [it won’t be fixed in one sitting!] try to negotiate reading or watching together something on the Theology of the Body, by whomever you prefer - I find Christopher West’s easy to understand and follow…
 
“You never listen to me”
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I said that to my teenagers a lot. The really didn’t listen to me. They tuned me out.

I wonder what the OP’s wife’s relationship with the parents is. While she may not be a narcissist… she sounds like she has difficulty coping… and I wonder if she came from a background of alcoholism. (Sometimes that’s tied into families where diabetes runs. Something about the way the body processes sugars…)
 
This may seem totally off topic but I’m asking because I haven’t seen it mentioned here and you mentioned diabetes.

Has she gained a significant amount of weight since you guys got married? The one things, and I haven’t read every post since my initial in detail, that I haven’t seen discussed as a possiblity is body image issues. To me that could explain a lot, especially the no foreplay and not wanting to be touched… please note thin people can have body image issues as well, however in our secular society it tends to be the opposite.

Joe
 
purplesunshine said:
…Give her the chance to be the “good guy”
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I was thinking that it almost sound as if she is the perfectionist type of personality, while he frankly seems to go to the other end…neither is a bad thing in itself, just incompatible…

However, SOMEthing attracted you both…and rekindling WHATever that was, is crucial…

You aren’t happy, but please realize neither is she! Both of you would benefit from changing this destructive ‘cold war’ zone…

I would be curious to see what happened if you were to try to be the most incredibly wonderful husband on earth! [in ‘your book’] Sometimes we all get a little too ‘comfortable’ around each other…😉
 
Liberanosamalo said:
I suggested many pages ago he needs to get involved more in the family finances and there has to be openness… both with the expenses required of his business and with the bills she is paying. It obviously stresses her to sit down and pay the bills. Maybe he should take that job back and do it. I am of the mind every woman should know exactly what is going on in her family finances. And there might not be lots of money. Even though he makes the money, it would be wrong not to turn it over to the management of the household. Many husbands keep large parts for themselves and leave a pittance for the wife to pay things. It’s a form of financial abuse. This was done to me. The OP doesn’t do that. To his credit. But I think he should be able to take a little every month so he has spending cash for things. And it should be up front and the wife should know about it. No secrets.

The more you tell about her physically and the things that are going on… her lack of care for herself and her depressive mood swings… she really needs to get counselling. At some point she will chase her own children out of her life.
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Couples really need to be able to talk about the finances, know what is going on, where they are at financially, and make decisions together. Otherwise very rarely does it go well. You end up with either economic abuse or one partner having a ton of anxiety trying to make it all work without support from the other. Spouses need to be on the same page when in comes to finances.
 
There is something else that strikes me about the OP’s wife. I know in my former marriage a counselor told me that my ex was so controlling over us as a way of compensating for his lack of control over himself. He was an alcoholic. The OP’s wife might have similar issues if she is out of control when it comes to managing her own health.
 
I am writing a lot of comments down and will take them up with her this weekend.

I don’t have time to respond to all of you, but will try to follow up. But I really want to thank all of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I think the reason behind her reluctance to see a dr is fear.

She was once a willing participant in sex but it has been some time now. She says she has 0 interest in it.

She is the eldest daughter of a large family and was the “mother” for a long time. Her father is at time very belligerant - a jewish convert who was idolized by his mother. He never helps arround his house. A lot of her behaviors come from him and are shared by other family members and I see our eldest daughter picking up the same self righteous attitudes that her mother and grandfather have.

I have asked to do the bills, but she feaars I will mess it up, and I really don’t have time to do it.

She is a perfectionist - she teaches our kids violin and the lessons frequently end up in tears as Reginald is not able to hold the correct bow position or is not in tune. Other musicians roll their eyes when they see her in action. She has little patience.

Anyhowze, I don’t want to make this a pity party, or back stab her behind her back.

I want help and I have got many many good ideas and a sense of perspective from you, thanks again.
 
Sam, I know that you don’t want a pity party, but how do you feel having your children homeschooled in this situation, where they don’t really ever have a break from the volatility and they also never get an outside perspective that others might not be living under such conditions. What do you think the impact will be to their self-esteem and what types of spouses do you think that they will choose as a result?
 
Sam, your thread reads like a ‘script’ of my life, marriage/5kids/self-empl/homeschool, etc - +/- a few details.

Let me cut to the chase: everything you describe above is a symptom; here is the cure:
  1. Say a prayer TOGETHER with your wife, invoking the Holy Spirit to come upon you both, and to instill you both with HOPE and PEACE.
  2. Take the ‘Dave Ramsey Financial Peace’ course - TOGETHER - this is mandatory! Without this, your life will consist of working to pay your bills, and you and your wife will each live in separate worlds, with separate goals and dreams and get nowhere. Do this, and you will accomplish your goals together and offer a bright future for yourselves and your kids. Your wife will become an integral part of your financial picture, and the distrust will melt away.
  3. Repeat #1 (continue below) . .
  4. Become part of a Family Apostolate (www.familyland.com or the like). We are all called to evangelize and be evangelized - what better way than to do so with your whole family - together. Go on an ACTS retreat (www.actsmissions.org), both you and your wife. Without the fire of the Spirit burning in you, you will be but a walking shell.
  5. Repeat #1 (continue below)…
  6. Take a walk with your wife. EVERYNIGHT. Leave the kids at home (babysitter if necessary). LEAVE the cellphones at home too. GET OUT of the house WITH her, at least 30 minutes - each day. Give her a break from the kiddos, and DONT make her do it alone - you need to go/be with her - that is the most important part. Don’t argue during the walk - schedule a time to discuss finances/kids/work/ etc later or whatever causes friction.
  7. Repeat #1 above. Oh, by the way, did I mention that prayer is important?
There is more, but I’m out of time (for my 1st post), the above will turn your lives around, you will become her hero, and you won’t be able to keep her off of you!:rolleyes:

God Bless

YBIC,
G.
 
Sam, I know that you don’t want a pity party, but how do you feel having your children homeschooled in this situation, where they don’t really ever have a break from the volatility and they also never get an outside perspective that others might not be living under such conditions. What do you think the impact will be to their self-esteem and what types of spouses do you think that they will choose as a result?
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I had the same thought.

The kids need a break from this exacting and stringent and stressful existence. What kind of crisis would it provoke to start putting the older kids in regular school? Does she plan to teach them all through high school?
 
the boys are in scouts, as a family we normally do scout stuff (girls too).

All the kids are in choir.

I sit with the kids at night and go over their school work. This takes about 2 hours or so. 2/3 have done their work so we go over their errors. Two of the remaining 3 have most frequently not completed assignments or done them so badly their need help.

The eldest daughter has maybe completed 1 of the 5 subjects and needs to be put to task. Ie I sit with her while correcting the other kids and when I see her not focusing I bring her back to her task.

If I don’t do this they don’t complete their school year.

Homeschooling has its good points and bad. our eldest daughter is an avid reader, our 2nd son is a year ahead, our 3rd son is threatening to be 2 years ahead. It gives me great delight to see my kids typically get through their school in 3 hours or and play, as opposed to their cousins who work all day aat school and then have to do homework.

Getting back to my wife’s teaching, she gets so frustrated with their music that they have a couple of lessons a month. She yells at them to practice and they don’t.

The thing about yelling is your kids tune it out quickly. So I don’t think it matters too much. I give my kids lots of “nice cuddles” all the time and do “eskimo” with them. All thougth they complain about my breath:)

But do you want to know something - 2 of them love to play the cello and play it by ear:) the youngest loves to sing.

It works because she gives up quickly and then I clean up at night:)

Regarding Dave Ramsey - I read his books and urged her to do it. She kept a dairy for a while of her expenses, but would not follow the envelop system. She said she would not as she might loose the money she was going shopping with. However she only uses debit cards now - so I take what victories I can.

Thanks for the tips garryr!
 
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