Spouse Standards

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It’s good to have some idea of what you’re looking for in a spouse, and even better reflect on those points to oneself. It’s equally important to discuss those expectations with one’s future spouse (or to a lesser degree with one’s potential spouse). Even better if these expectations can be learned and communicated over time through friendship, courtship, and time spent together rather than through a… well, frankly, confrontational list of demands, however reasonable they may be.
LadyLillian said:
there is nothing on the list I wouldn’t be willing to give back in return–as far as I’m concerned, if at the time of engagement or dating, I’m not living up to point X, I will not hold him to point X. And of course, I would be accepting of Mr. Date having a list, comparable to mine in length, for me to live up to.
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I know I’m just some random dude on the Internet, but out of concern for a fellow Christian, I want to warn you of a great danger in creating ‘measuring lists’ like this. No future spouse will ever measure up. Ever. Even one who “checks all the boxes.” Why? Because marriage isn’t about “you do this for me and I do this for you.” It’s not transactional. Life isn’t an Ayn Rand novel. Marriage isn’t about costs and benefits; it’s about sacrifice.

My wife and I have been happily married for five years now. We’ve got two kiddos, and can’t wait until we’re blessed with more. This is not because we had matching “dealbreakers” or traded “negotiables” until we could tolerate each other – no, we love each other. We choose to be with each other (and reaffirm that choice daily!) and learn to sacrifice for each other without ‘keeping score’ or reducing our partnership to some list of demands and compromises. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Instead, we seek ways to sacrifice. I’ll say that again: we seek ways to sacrifice.

This is a huge paradigm shift from what the world teaches. It’s what sets the Christian marriage apart from the strictly-legal marriages of the secular world. Consider meditating on Ephesians 5. Consider what is asked of each spouse. What, ultimately, is the husband asked to do? The wife? What would that mean for everyday life if couples put that into practice?

You’ve probably noticed the avatar. Yes, I’m an old-fashioned Lutheran. I hope that doesn’t deter you from sound advice. Obviously our church bodies have slight disagreements on how, exactly, marriage is defined (proper Sacrament vs. probably-not-a-sacrament but has sacramental qualities), but we share total agreement on the actual expectations of Christians in marriage. I married a wonderful Roman Catholic who is the very embodiment of the woman in Proverbs 31. We had the benefit of pre-marriage counselling with the local Catholic priest, for which I will be forever thankful. If you’re up for it, treat your priest to some coffee and ask him to explain what sets Christian marriage (or “Sacramental Marriage,” as y’all refer to it) apart from the secular sort. I think you may come away from that conversation with a happier outlook on dating, in general.
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
I wish more women spent as much time figuring out what they want and expect as you have. There were a few things on it that wouldn’t work for me personally, but overall I think you’re mind is in exactly the right place.
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Thank you, I appreciate that!
 
After hearing so many people on this thread express opposition to the idea of making a Spouse List, I did some digging to see what Catholic speakers have to say about the practice.

Turns out Crystalina Evert supports making Spouse Lists! I just found this on YouTube and wanted to share:



In fact, so do the Cotters, in their book, Dating Detox (which is really good, even if you’re not dating, read it!):


No, these people are not infallible, but I felt their comments added to our discussion. Feel free to post any other comments you come across from Catholic speakers on Spouse Lists!
 
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Jackie Francois did it too. She didn’t share her list but she said she was really specific and even stated physical attributes. She did do a novena though.
 
A speaker at a conference at Steubenville made a list of qualities he wanted his wife to have; it was short, and specific and he prayed about this. Then he then described how his wife had the qualities on his list.
 
I partly see what people are saying against them, but also feel that if more people made them, at least in their heads, the divorce rate may not be so high.
 
LadyLillian said:
After hearing so many people on this thread express opposition to the idea of making a Spouse List, I did some digging to see what Catholic speakers have to say about the practice.
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I think it is a great idea, but I have never seen a list half as long. I would be intrigued as to what happens in ten years. I think you will find God has a sense of humor.

I might make one suggestion. Find those things that are an absolute no for you by being imaginative and try to think of scenarios where one might budge on one or the other.
 
Hi @GratefulFred,

I wanted to tell you that reading your post here in the “Spouse Standards” thread was a very moving experience for me, and I had tears in my eyes by the time I got to the end of it, where you said that you wife is “still the best conversation you have every day.” ❤️

That is so beautifully said, and I wish you many more years of married happiness together, and may God bless you and your wife and family! ❤️
 
Elf01 said:
I partly see what people are saying against them, but also feel that if more people made them, at least in their heads, the divorce rate may not be so high.
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I doubt it.

Making a marriage last has less to do with being what each other wants when you say I do and a lot to do with being able to communicate and accept the inevitable changes that occur through life.
 
A valid point.

However, I think that at least some people however overly rely on emotions and that a list like this may focus them.
 
I’d be willing to bet a majority of the folks in favor of “Spouse Lists” have not yet, and perhaps never will, have an actual spouse. 😅

Here’s praying that they open themselves to the wisdom of those who have successful Christian marriages, in keeping with 1 Corinthians 13: Love keeps no record of wrongs.
 
Elf01 said:
However, I think that at least some people however overly rely on emotions and that a list like this may focus them.
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An emotional high and checking off boxes on a list are both ephemeral. Making neither a very good indicator for marital success.

I’m sure list making provides some solace and sense of control which may get them to go out and meet people. However, it isn’t real control and offers no guarantee that they won’t get hurt (which I think is the real reason people make lists like this).
 
steido01 said:
I’d be willing to bet a majority of the folks in favor of “Spouse Lists” have not yet, and perhaps never will, have an actual spouse. 😅
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You may not know this being Lutheran, but the people listed in posts 343 and 344 who endorse mature Spouse Lists are famous Catholic chastity speakers that give relationship advice to thousands of Christian teens every year. As it so happens, they are happily married, and their marriages have Christ as their foundation.

By way of example, these videos witness to Jackie’s marriage:



 
Hey, exceptions will always exist. I said “a majority” for a reason.
 
As nice as this may be, maybe this is a special taste of mine - but those videos seem always so theatrically and exalted to me. Taking about how to build a happy family and marriage is something really important, yes. But I have a problem wth this sort of show for the public world.
 
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