Spouse Standards

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jfz178 said:
Wow! 300 posts and we haven’t gotten her to realize that she will be a spinster with that list.
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You say spinster like it’s a bad thing.
jfz178 said:
I told my wife of 39 years about “the list” and she laughed out loud.
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Yes, the hopeful processing of a person whose prefrontal cortex isn’t completely developed and who has experienced trauma is hilarious.
jfz178 said:
One parting piece of advice: If you use “Lady Lillian” as your handle on online dating sites, it will make you sound like a dominatrix and conjure up images of leather corsets. But given your list, you might just keep that name as a warning!
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I see you are new here. For future reference your post is not in the spirit of charity of CAF.
 
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Bruised_Reed said:
True. My mom dated a year and was engaged for a year and said she wished she had waited 2 years. However, she said it wasn’t until the baby shower when she was going to have me that she realized what kind of man he was; that was about 3 years after they were married.
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Yeah. My friend dated a man who met many of the standards of the OP. (except he was a very practicing and sincere Christian, but not Catholic) She was concerned that he “only” worked at a grocery store, but he seemed genuine and hard working. She knew him all through college (nearly 4 years) and got engaged afterward and married quickly (not in the church, but he agreed to raise any children Catholic) after that and baby came right after. She said he treated her like a princess during pregnancy. After…

She thought she knew him.

She was wrong. His pathology did not really show up until their daughter was about 2 and she realized that his “desire” to be a SAHD was actually so he could do nothing all day, not because he was trying to “bond” with his child. He was not caring for her well at all.

When confronted, he left. He is very mentally ill and hid it for YEARS from her.

She knew him for 4 years and dated for 2 of those…was engaged for 6 months. Even looking back she has NO idea how he held it together for that long. He’s a mess right now–hasn’t held a job for about 5 years.

You can’t discount the tactics of those with idiopathic mental illnesses to get what they want. Unfortunately, like and your case and the one with my friend, many times those with manipulative mental illnesses are not really thrown until children OF THEIR OWN come into the picture. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve also heard “but she/he was so good with little sib, cousin, niece/nephew couldn’t wait to watch him/her as a parent”. There is something about kids that makes those with mental illness who’ve “won” the heart and mind of their target especially resentful of children who can see right through them. (And often get the attention of “their” prize with far more efficiency)
 
Pretty sure the dominatrix comment is against charity and especially made toward someone much younger than you.

From Conduct Rules: Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and incendiary, divisive, crude or sexually-explicit language.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
There is something about kids that makes those with mental illness who’ve “won” the heart and mind of their target especially resentful of children who can see right through them.
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This is so spot on.

I got to see this from the other side while I was a nanny and was dating a man whose family of origin was so unhealthy he didn’t even know to hide it. Other than that he said all the right things. He was a “good listener” and later he could act like the same things were important to him. But his visceral reaction to “my” kids’ needs? Yikes.
 
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I was deadly serious about the dominatrix comment. If you were familiar with the gestalt of the internet, you would know that screen name will indeed invoke that reaction. My next sentence was snarky, I admit. I just have no patience for millennials exhibiting entitlement behavior.
 
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Bruised_Reed said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
There is something about kids that makes those with mental illness who’ve “won” the heart and mind of their target especially resentful of children who can see right through them.
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This is so spot on.

I got to see this from the other side while I was a nanny and was dating a man whose family of origin was so unhealthy he didn’t even know to hide it. Other than that he said all the right things. He was a “good listener” and later he could act like the same things were important to him. But his visceral reaction to “my” kids’ needs? Yikes.
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It is sad…because so often I hear bbbut bbbut “he/she was so WONDERFUL taking my nephews to the Zoo!”

Yep. Thats pecause he/she could impres you.
 
You need therapy from a very competent Catholic therapist. Without therapy any marriage you have will fail because you are unable to understand the concept of what marriage is.
 
@jfz178
“One parting piece of advice: If you use “Lady Lillian” as your handle on online dating sites, it will make you sound like a dominatrix and conjure up images of leather corsets.”
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I wasn’t planning on it, although I have nothing against leather corsets. 🙂

Perhaps you have heard of Sarah J. Maas’s Throne of Glass? It happens to be one of my favorite novels and the protagonist assumes the name of Lady Lillian Gordaina as she takes part in a competition in the royal palace. I was reading a portion of the book just before making my account here, and that would be how my CAF screen name became Lady Lillian.

 
BoomBoomMancini said:
A few minor nit-picking things: don’t you just assume decent hygiene in most well adjusted adults? I certainly do. I just assume the most people are taking a shower and brushing their teeth daily. It’s not a trait I really think about otherwise. I dunno, that just strikes me as odd.
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Sadly, no.

I would actually recommend asking a significant other about their hygiene philosophy, because it sometimes isn’t obvious until you’re living together that there’s an incompatibility.
 
Great series! Perhaps not appropriate for this thread but I’d love to hear your other YA favorites. I’m always looking for the next series I can devour.

Oh, you might want to add under the optional category of your list “librarian.” Marrying one has greatly reduced my late fees while increasing ease of access to books. 🤣 Now I made this comment relevant. 😉
 
I was a bit pointed in my comments; not trying to put you down. But at 71, and having had a divorce practice, I have seen far more than many others.

My comment concerning children are still on point. I do not know what your phobia is concerning child birth (nor do I wish to elicit it from you), but I agree with at least one other poster, that you should do some serious work with a counselor to get to the bottom of it. And if you cannot overcome it, I would advise not marrying. It is easy to say “Yeah, I am good with not having any children” - you, or your intended. It is a whole 'nother world being married, and that has changed the perspective of many a lad and lass.

a guy could easily say “sure, no child bearing”. He may mean it; or he may be pacifying you on the matter, In either event, a few years down the road, “oooohhh, I really didn’t mean that” or “I changed my mind. Why can’t you?”

It is all nice and etc. to be “adult” and talk these things out, Surprise of surprises, men have emotions too, and the issue of having children can become a very powerful emotional force. I have seen people get divorces over far less an issue.

And none of that has a whole lot to do with what the Church says is a prerequisite for a valid marriage. As in, I am fairly familiar with tribunal applications.
 
I’ve read the updated list somewhere here. Is it weird that I don’t see anything wrong with it? It’s very detailed, sure, but it would be something I would want too. Like there are some that are weird/I won’t even think of including that (eg the one with a modern life) but I mean…it’s not like I would want to marry a guy who would insist on home births and prayer as a form of medicine! It’s pretty much common sense. Something that I would write down but if I see a guy who lacks that in real life, I would avoid.

My very basic standards right now (I’m only 19 and I honestly can’t be bothered with men right now so it’s not perfect):

-Knows how to control his emotions/let them out in a healthy manner
-Does not drink to get drunk
-Is not a control freak
-Respects both men and women around him and doesn’t treat a group of people as inferior (be it race religion etc)
-Not really a trad catholic but also not one of those progressive ones (I’m somewhere in the middle and I know our personalities would not be compatible if otherwise)
-shares the same beliefs or is willing to follow my beliefs when it comes to contraception or abortion etc
-good sense of humor.
-is a hard worker (intelligent, mature etc)

That’s all but to be honest, I’ve come to realize that we can only ‘see’ once we actually meet a potential boyfriend. You see so many women throwing away their lists for an abusive boyfriend and many others who found someone that is perfect on paper but there isn’t any ‘spark’. It’s so complicated that sometimes I wish there isn’t such a thing as romantic love, sigh.
 
Lea101 said:
I’ve read the updated list somewhere here. Is it weird that I don’t see anything wrong with it? It’s very detailed, sure, but it would be something I would want too. Like there are some that are weird/I won’t even think of including that (eg the one with a modern life) but I mean…it’s not like I would want to marry a guy who would insist on home births and prayer as a form of medicine! It’s pretty much common sense. Something that I would write down but if I see a guy who lacks that in real life, I would avoid.
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That’s really nice to hear, thanks!
 
otjm said:
But at 71, and having had a divorce practice, I have seen far more than many others.
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I appreciate your unique perspective!

In your practice, what would you say were the main reasons couples sought divorce?

I think you make a great point about people changing their minds–yet isn’t this true of any standard? At some point it seems we must commit to the person we love and trust the parts of them we don’t yet know. For example, any man could technically be a perfect gentleman during courtship and eventually become an abusive husband. But if a man never shows any warning signs of something, certainly it is better to be trusting of the love already shown than ever expecting your beloved to turn into a monster, isn’t it? (Of course this applies if we reverse the genders as well.)
 
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I suppose, in a perhaps shallow analysis, people could not find a way to resolve their differences. I say shallow, because the “why” that they could not resolve matters stems from a number of sources.

Some of the sources: boredom with the other (leading to “looking elsewhere”); communication skills or lack thereof; not treating marriage as anything much more than a contract; focusing on the anger rather than why they were disagreeing; failure to acknowledge the other as a unique person with differing views; taking each other for granted; poor or non-existent marriage prep; shallow and immature reasons for marrying in the first place; extensive intercourse prior to marriage (the "stupid hormone’ effect); lack of any appreciation of what marriage entails; selfishness and self-centeredness on the part of one or both; a “user” attitude towards others.

Those are just some of the causes of people divorcing.
 
Somehow, I think your list will go out the window. What will likely happen is you will see three or four glaring faults in your man-- with any luck you will notice these when you’re dating-- and your marital decision will be based on whether you can work with those faults. Also, the guy who marries you will not be troubled by any list you have. He’ll probably have fun going through the list with you, and tease you about it.
 
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