Spouse Standards

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In short, what gives you the right to say that your family will spend on conveniences that make your duties easier but demand “economy” out of him?
I hold us to the same standards. I know myself well enough to know, at least at this point in my life, I could not handle being a mom without some conveniences, such as a stroller. Those demands are merely those that lend to the well-being of my family.
 
Hey, do what you want, it’s your life. But I think you have already eliminated Mr. Right with your list. The two of you will never get together. So that leaves the single life or something less.
Thanks for the warning.

And what are those 5 or 6 might I ask? I’m curious to see how they match the 6 most important to me.
 
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Accept that marriage will go badly sometimes, and it will go great sometimes. That’s the “for better or for worse” part. It’s a journey. It is not about picking the perfect journey, it’s about how you travel the journey you do pick. If you find a decent guy who loves you and he is willing to work at the relationship no matter what comes up, you will be miles ahead of being married to someone who checks off your list. Scary, I know, but that’s the real deal.
 
Accept that marriage will go badly sometimes, and it will go great sometimes.
If only it was that simple. I have grow up surrounded by relationships that made no preparations, went in with the attitude you suggest, and ended up miserable or divorced. Their children suffered.

I’m not saying your approach is wrong. I’m just saying the success rate in the couples I know isn’t so grand with that method.
 
Thats not what you’re really doing.

You’re saying that he has to do things your way. After all your boxes are checked than he is able to do what he desires.

If you want to be looking straight down the aisle at divorce, that’s a great way to do it.

Your attitude is “me and mine first” with no trust that the grown man you want to marry might have ideas of his own.
 
Your attitude is “me and mine first” with no trust that the grown man you want to marry might have ideas of his own.
I have already said that is not the case. I have already stated I welcome a man who has a list of his own and hold myself to each standard I hold to him. That accusation is hurtful. You have no idea how much shorter this list would be if I was only making it for a partner I would never have kids with. Even if you hate my list, I did not make it to be selfish. I made it for them. And I made it for him too! I do a man nothing but disservice by dating someone I know I cannot live with and breaking his heart down the road when I leave him.

Having specific standards for the sake of our marriage and the sake of our children is not selfish, even if I am setting those standards imperfectly in the midst of my best effort.

I’m starting to think you really don’t understand the meaning behind the list if you would suggest I wouldn’t let my husband go to a car wash or rent an Amazon movie.
 
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I didn’t do an inventory. I think the criminal, addiction, disease, marital status kind of things. All else is window dressing.Ask yourself, "Could this work if this box weren’t checked? If the answer is, “It would not be ideal, but it could work” then get rid of it. The finance, sex and kids items are a distraction. Those are big divorce issues because couples don’t communicate about them and work them out during the marriage, not because of their going in positions. The religion thing can also work. There are a lot of great mixed religion marriages. My daughter started out in one and he finally converted. She scored one for The Church! But you can’t plan on that.
 
Ask yourself, "Could this work if this box weren’t checked? If the answer is, “It would not be ideal, but it could work” then get rid of it.
That is exactly what I did/am doing. I have made multiple revisions to my master copy based on this thread.

The points that are most important to me/that I feel strongest about are what you lumped into “window dressing”. We simply have different priorities, and that’s fine.
 
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Your attitude is “me and mine first” with no trust that the grown man you want to marry might have ideas of his own.
I have already said that is not the case. I have already stated I welcome a man who has a list of his own and hold myself to each standard I hold to him. That accusation is hurtful. You have no idea how much shorter this list would be if I was only making it for my partner I would never have kids with. Even if you hate my list, I did not make it to be selfish. I made it for them.

Having specific standards for the sake of our marriage the sake of our children is not selfish, even if I am setting those standards imperfectly in the midst of my best effort.

I’m starting to think you really don’t understand the meaning behind the list if you would suggest I wouldn’t let my husband go to a car wash or rent an Amazon movie.
What I don’t think you are reconciling is the impression your list gives.

You are thinking it means one thing, when by definition it means a whole other thing.

It is flat-out saying “I do not trust a man to make babies with” You are trying to make all of these points to justify if a man is ready to marry…and using these points to ensure that you get what you want.

A marriage is about two people. Two sets of ideas and ways of doing things. You do not have bad ideas per-se but you are trying to control every aspect of the relationship and his duties and how he is to act.

That’s not healthy.

If you have trust issues where you cannot fathom a man being able to make parenting decisions for himself then it is something you absolutely DO need to work on before marriage.
 
What I don’t think you are reconciling is the impression your list gives.

You are thinking it means one thing, when by definition it means a whole other thing.
It is true I may have explained things imperfectly in my posts. I did my best. Obviously in a relationship, we could discuss each point at length, and we could be on the same page, in a way one may not be just from reading a single line on a thread.

God Bless Xanthippe, blessed Advent!
 
You do not have bad ideas per-se but you are trying to control every aspect of the relationship and his duties and how he is to act.
The core of my perspective is the concept of finding a man who shares my core lifestyle and values in his own right, and will of his own right, live in a way that facilitates marital and family harmony.

My perspective is not to find a man who does not share my lifestyle and values, and try to control him so he lives in a way he otherwise would not.
 
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
You do not have bad ideas per-se but you are trying to control every aspect of the relationship and his duties and how he is to act.
The core of my perspective is the concept of finding a man who shares my core perspectives and values in his own right, and will of his own right, live in a way that facilitates marital and family harmony.

My perspective is not to find a man who does not share my perspective, and try to control him so he lives in a way he otherwise would not.
It might not be your objective, but that’s what you are doing.

You want to have long conversations, etc. You are literally defining exact characteristis so they meet your needs.
 
You want to have long conversations, etc. You are literally defining exact characteristis so they meet your needs.
The ability to have long conversation. That point I actually borrowed from “The Catholic Gentleman”, so you can take it up with him.
  1. You can talk for hours – My wife and I dated long distance, so for the vast majority of our courtship, all we could do was talk. And talk we did. We would frequently spend 5 hours or so on the phone, discussing everything from our family histories, to our desire for children, to our goals for the future.
While being separated by a thousand miles was painful at times, looking back, we are grateful for the time we spent getting to know one another in such a deep way. Marriage is not about having “fun” in the sense that it is not all dinner dates at nice restaurants, trips to the movies, or hanging out at the mall. If that’s all your dating life consists of, you’re in for a rude shock when you get married. Marriage is filled with many quiet moments of companionship, composed mostly of talking or being in each other’s presence. Loving to converse with your spouse is a key ingredient in a happy marriage.

When you are dating someone, see if you can do nothing but talk. Plan some dates conducive to conversation. If talking for any length of time seems strained and forced, that is a bad sign. But if you can talk like you’ve known each other for years, you’re on the right track.
 
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Lillian, I’m kinda torn here, because on the one hand I think it’s good to have an idea of what you’re looking for and what you’re willing/unwilling to compromise on. On the other hand, you’re only twenty, and I think you might be overthinking some of this just a tad. You can’t really reduce relationships to a list this way. They’re organic and people grow over time.

For example, without being crude, the sexual stuff. You put that you don’t want to participate in any sexual acts you find demeaning, which apparently includes oral sex. Totally fine if that’s where you draw the line, but it’s entirely possible (and common) for what you consider to be unappealing to shift with time. What you may find unappealing in the abstract might become very appealing when in the context of a husband you love and find attractive. Just a thought.

My point here isn’t to talk you into or out of any particular sexual practice, but just to use it as an example of how your own stance on particular issues may shift with time. I guess what I’m saying is it’s fine to have a list, but do so knowing that any list is going to have to be a little fluid and adapt to your particular relationship.

Oh, and obviously, don’t hit a guy with this on the first date. 🙂
 
It dosn’t matter where you got it from—the point is that you are seriously attempting to define every last characheristic of your spouse outside of his God-given appearance (since youve also mentioned that he must be clean and neat)
 
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

That is a great point! I am very open to adapting on some things–almost all of these things–later in marriage. As long as we start the race with a shared mindset, we can adjust the details as the journey changes and children join the clan.
 
There was a stretch in my life where I thought;
  • I would only date a Catholic.
  • I would date a woman who liked sports and games.
  • I would date a woman who was extroverted like myself.
A small list, but manageable. Shouldn’t be too hard to find someone meeting those requirements. A few years ago, I met someone who was not any of those three, and decided to try a relationship anyway.

This same woman had her own “list”:
  • If she got married, it wouldn’t be until her 30’
  • She would not date a Catholic.
  • She did wanted someone bilingual (she herself was English/French).
  • Someone educated.
  • Someone “cultured”
  • Someone from a large city.
  • Physically healthy.
  • Mentally healthy.
  • Not unemployed.
  • Financially stable.
  • Not homeless.
  • Didn’t come from a broken/abusive home.
Outside of the first bullet point (YMMV on that one), the second list seems reasonable, yes? Yet within the first month of us dating, how many of those did I meet?

ZERO.

I was in my 20’s. I’m from a small town in rural Ontario, definitely not “cultured”. I have a two year college diploma. (not a university degree). I only spoke one language, and I had an peculiar rural accent/dialect. My father abused me, and was divorced/married multiple times. I had an untreated anxiety disorder, an untreated eating disorder, and many physical health concerns. Within the first month we dated I became unemployed, I had little money in the bank. And I became homeless.

Inexplicably, she gave it a shot anyway. Because we both realized that were compatible in multiple areas, and helping each other grow as people and in holiness. Even in a secular mindset, the idea is that you partner with someone because the two of you can propel each other further than you can by yourself. It didn’t matter she wasn’t Catholic/I was Catholic, what mattered is we made each other greater.

Additionally, we all have core values that may not be theological. She understood that certain “events” happened which shaped my attitude and values before coming to Christ, and respected those. She recognized that due to my background that I had some “issues” which cause me to be a certain way; she respected that and was understanding.

We’ve been married since 2008, and now have a seven year old son. She also converted to Catholicism before we got engaged, although I was planning on marrying her regardless.

You might not be able to handle having a non-Catholic spouse. And that’s fine! At the end of the day, whoever you are with needs to lead you to holiness and the path to Sainthood, and not move you away from the Catholic faith - regardless if they are Catholic or not. And they need to be aligned and understand your core values, some of which may be not theological in nature.

If someone needs to be Catholic for that to happen to you, so be it. But don’t close doors unilaterally, you never know whom God’s preferential will wants you to be with.

If I did that, I’d be out a wife and kid, and be missing such tremendous personal and spiritual growth from being with her. And I’d like to think likewise from her perspective (me helping her).
 
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Thank you for sharing! I am happy things worked out for you. I am so sorry you went through abuse.
 
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
clean and neat
I said nothing about neat. Clean most of the time, yes. Smelling fresh most of the time, yes.
Oh yes.

He’s supposed to be clean and fresh…but not too concerned with how he looks.

That is incredibly controlling. Not sure why you don’t see that.
 
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