Spouse Standards

[LadyLillian]

For all of those saying my age is impairing my ability to set good standards for a future spouse, are you opposed to all 20 year olds getting married? I have several Christian friends that did, and I couldn’t imagine being ready at 20, but they seem quite happy. Or do you think I am simply an immature or self-centered 20 year old?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I have never heard the word “discerning” as much as I have on these forums. I appreciate rational discussion making but sometimes it seems more like an excuse for inaction; like, if x, y, and z conditions are met then and only then must it be the thing for me.

Life doesn’t work like that. It’s messy, you make mistakes, you don’t make mistakes and stuff still doesn’t go as planned. When you add another person into it things get more messy. Add children SO MUCH MESSY. In that mess, though, that’s also where you find all the love, joy and purpose. In that mess is where God is dwelling.

Perhaps the old-fashioned way of saying “discern” is “give it time” and “use your better judgment”. Discern is just a nice word that sums it all up.

 

[DarkLight]

When the family of origin is estranged, that might be difficult for some spouses. You do marry the family and or the estrangement

I caution people in general to try to avoid non-negotiables unless they are TRULY non-negotiable. You can often judge those better once you know someone. A lot of people also just don’t consider that some people may not be in close contact with their family for a reason - while you do marry the estrangement, it may not be what many people imagine, especially if the family of origin doesn’t live close.

@LadyLillian, seeing as you are Catholic, I would point out that several of your points could be reduced to one point - willing to accept Church teaching on sexual morality. For example, sexual acts that are not oriented towards procreation are already not acceptable within a Catholic marriage, so they don’t need to be listed separately.

 

[LadyLillian]

I also did a breakdown of what kind of house I wanted to live in too how many rooms, decorated each in my head and things like that.

I did that in middle school!

 

[DarkLight]

I also did a breakdown of what kind of house I wanted to live in too how many rooms, decorated each in my head and things like that.

I think when I did that, I came to the conclusion that I wanted to have enough money to hire a maid to clean the stupid things.

I tend to perform housework somewhat over protest. I recognize that it doesn’t magically happen, but I still don’t like it.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

For all of those saying my age is impairing my ability to set good standards for a future spouse, are you opposed to all 20 year olds getting married? I have several friends that did, and I couldn’t imagine being ready at 20, but they seem quite happy. Or do you think I am simply an immature or self-centered 20 year old?

I think it’s probably a bit of both.

20yo’s who get married either do so out of advanced maturity or grave immaturity.

You are asking for many things which you can’t really know, and could never really ask. This is probably because you are operating on fantasy and your own ideas rather than reality.

Many of the things you set forth are things that someone can have control over, but a good number are things they cannot. Some are vague and that’s really nieve on your part. Like your statement about money, budgeting and frugality. My husband, before marriage, was good with money but he had a heck of a lot more than I did. He did not spend money he did not have—but he also had a much, much higher salary and lived much farther from absolute disaster. Not because of anything he did, really, but because of his life experience. He figured that $2-3 a meal for a homecooked dinner was a good value. I can cook a meal for 4 on $2-3.

You are listing particulars when mindset is far more important. I think that is the “immaturity” many of us are picking up on.

 

[starlady]

I think it would be good to discern the items on your list and then follow the suggestion that someone made above to separate them into different categories (things that you would be absolutely essential vs. things where you are willing to compromise).

I thought I would be marrying a good Catholic man, born and raised in my home state, who liked all the same things as me. What happened was that I married a man whose first language is Spanish and who likes a lot of foods that I am not accustomed to. Now, I speak Spanish, and he speaks English, so we can communicate with each other’s families, but his English and my Spanish are not always perfect. We actually generally speak more Spanish together than English because Spanish comes more easily for me than English does for him. He’s introduced me to a lot of great food, but there’s still some I’m not so convinced on (and vice versa).

My husband thought he didn’t want someone who drank alcohol at all. He has seen alcoholism in his family and among his peers, and the partying scene did not appeal to him at all. Now, as an introvert, the party scene is not for me either, but I do like to have a glass of wine or a beer in the evening or with a meal occasionally. I think that worried my husband at first, but seeing that I knew how to drink responsibly, now he and I can enjoy a beer or a margarita together (though he’s still getting used to the taste of beer ).

Additionally, we started dating a month after meeting and dated for about 10 months before getting engaged. We were engaged a year and then married this past summer. He and I are both adults who decided “why wait to start dating” because we liked each other right away and we entered the relationship with the mindset of discerning marriage. We met when I was 24 and he was 30. We are now 26 and 32. Had we waited so long, we would only just now be dating, and the child we are now expecting would not exist. (Also, by the way, I thought that our 6 year age difference was weird at first, and I thought I’d marry someone within a two year difference, but it’s no big deal).

Those are just examples of how he and I had different expectations in certain areas and God led us to someone we didn’t expect. And yet, we both ended up with good, holy, Catholic spouses (well, we are always works in progress, but we are committed to improving every day!).

Good for you for having an idea of what you’re looking for. I think it’s good to have an idea of what you would like, but don’t be too rigid in time frames and hobbies. Live your life and be open to who and where God leads you.

 

[LadyLillian]

Some are vague and that’s really nieve on your part. Like your statement about money, budgeting and frugality. My husband, before marriage, was good with money but he had a heck of a lot more than I did. He did not spend money he did not have—but he also had a much, much higher salary and lived much farther from absolute disaster. Not because of anything he did, really, but because of his life experience. He figured that $2-3 a meal for a homecooked dinner was a good value. I can cook a meal for 4 on $2-3.

I list vague qualities because I realize they will look different to each person. Your example illustrates my point. Economical, budget shopping will have different price ranges based on situation and income. Considering finances is the number one cause of divorce, and Catholic marriage means being open to multiple children who cost thousands of dollars, I really don’t believe “Willing to use a budget and shop economically”, “In control of debts” and “Responsible with finances” are bad, naive stipulations, whatever flaws the list does have. If I meet my husband, we will work out those details, things such as what a good budget looks like for us.

 

[LadyLillian]

Thanks for sharing! I’m glad you were able to find each other!

 

[JetteZ]

Perhaps the old-fashioned way of saying “discern” is “give it time” and “use your better judgment”. Discern is just a nice word that sums it all up.

I’d love if it was used that way.

I see it used like: I’m not going to date because I haven’t discerned that marriage is right for me. I’m not taking college courses because I haven’t discerned my career. I’m not going to do anything to move myself forward until I know exactly the direction I should be going so I don’t make a mistake and have to make a course correction or have to face difficulty without a predetermined and within my control reward.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Perhaps the old-fashioned way of saying “discern” is “give it time” and “use your better judgment”. Discern is just a nice word that sums it all up.

I’d love if it was used that way.

I see it used like: I’m not going to date because I haven’t discerned that marriage is right for me. I’m not taking college courses because I haven’t discerned my career. I’m not going to do anything to move myself forward until I know exactly the direction I should be going so I don’t make a mistake and have to make a course correction or have to face difficulty without a predetermined and within my control reward.

Well, there were always people like that.

We just had a different set of words for them. Most of which would be a vio on this board.

Just because people abuse the word “discernment” to bend to their own lackadaisical wishes doesn’t make it a bad word.

 

[LadyLillian]

Well thank you all for you time! I feel like I have gotten a lot of great perspectives and I have much to ponder!

A blessed Advent to you all!

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Some are vague and that’s really nieve on your part. Like your statement about money, budgeting and frugality. My husband, before marriage, was good with money but he had a heck of a lot more than I did. He did not spend money he did not have—but he also had a much, much higher salary and lived much farther from absolute disaster. Not because of anything he did, really, but because of his life experience. He figured that $2-3 a meal for a homecooked dinner was a good value. I can cook a meal for 4 on $2-3.

I list vague qualities because I realize they will look different to each person. Your example illustrates my point. Economical, budget shopping will have different price ranges based on situation and income. Considering finances is the number one cause of divorce, and Catholic marriage means being open to multiple children who cost thousands of dollars, I really don’t believe “Willing to use a budget and shop economically”, “In control of debts” and “Responsible with finances” are bad, naive stipulations, whatever flaws the list does have. If I meet my husband, we will work out those details, things such as what a good budget looks like for us.

But they do reflect an immature understanding when you draw them out into different points. Responsible for finances covers everything. By repeating things like “in control of debts” and “willing to use a budget and shop economically” you are attempting to control and caveat the point to death.

Someone who is responsible for their finances IS going to control their debt and spend wisely. That’s a given. By trying to pull every last point out you are showing that you don’t really understand or trust what it means to be fiscally responsible.

It’s not that the secondary things like “willing to budget and shop economically” and “in control of debts” are bad things…they just say that you have a very controlling outlook on what exactly responsible financial decisions look like to you.

You need one point. Financially responsible. That’s it.

It’s the same way with many of your points. You don’t have bad ideas, but you’ve drawn many of them out to the point of ridiculousness. You have dozens on communication. If someone is communicating clearly, then confidence is a given. They don’t explode in anger, they have positive discussions, they seek guidance, they use words to communicate encouragement, etc. etc.

 

[LadyLillian]

But they do reflect an immature understanding when you draw them out into different points. Responsible for finances covers everything. By repeating things like “in control of debts” and “willing to use a budget and shop economically” you are attempting to control and caveat the point to death.

Someone who is responsible for their finances IS going to control their debt and spend wisely. That’s a given. By trying to pull every last point out you are showing that you don’t really understand or trust what it means to be fiscally responsible.

I see where you are coming from. I would not say I agree with your examples though.

A person can have overwhelming debts from the past and have become financially responsible since then. The desire not to spend lavishly or buy many trinkets that are not specifically practical is a lifestyle element distinct from financial responsibility and debt (if you make enough, or budget enough, you can live lavishly while remaining financially responsible and out of debt). Furthermore, budgeting is only one of multiple methods to maintain financial responsibility. Obviously, these points are all in the financial family, but they all have different meanings. And to me, each of these individual points are important.

As for every clear communicator being a person who never explodes in anger, a person who is able to have positive conversations, a person who seeks guidance, that would be simply incorrect.

I will go through and do some summarizing, but only when the summarizing does not change the meaning.

 

[DarkLight]

I am guessing you have something of a philosophical bent, @LadyLillian? Take it from a philosopher - these things, you could sit and write for the rest of your life, and you will never have a list of all and only those things that are truly necessary. Some things will not be so important. Some, you will realize are, even if you never thought to list them. But trying to have it all out before hand is an exercise in futility against the messiness of real people.

You sound very like me in many ways. May I ask…are you afraid of things turning out badly?

 

[LadyLillian]

You sound very like me in many ways.

May I ask…are you afraid of things turning out badly?

I am terrified of things going badly. So much so I hesitate to date at all.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

But they do reflect an immature understanding when you draw them out into different points. Responsible for finances covers everything. By repeating things like “in control of debts” and “willing to use a budget and shop economically” you are attempting to control and caveat the point to death.

Someone who is responsible for their finances IS going to control their debt and spend wisely. That’s a given. By trying to pull every last point out you are showing that you don’t really understand or trust what it means to be fiscally responsible.

I see where you are coming from. I would not say I agree with your example though.

A person can have overwhelming debts from the past and have become financially responsible since then. The desire not to spend lavishly or buy many trinkets that are not specifically practical is a lifestyle element distinct from financial responsibility and debt (if you make enough, or budget enough, you can live lavishly while remaining financially responsible and out of debt). Furthermore, budgeting is only one of multiple methods to maintain financial responsibility. Obviously, these points are all in the financial family, but they all have different meanings. And to me, they are each important.

I will go through and do some summarizing, but only when the summarizing does not change the meaning.

But again, you’re still trying to control.

If it’s that important to you, I guess you can go for it. But it comes off as petty.

So you marry someone with a good income and you’re also making a good income. Are you going to refuse that he be allowed to rent a video off of Amazon? What if he wants the name brand parmesan cheese? What if he wants to wash his car in the car wash regularly? Why is your “economical” so very important to you?

If one is responsible with their money they have found a way to reasonably handle money, period. They can adjust to lower and higher levels of income. Trying to squeeze every last notion of how exactly your finances will look is childish.

You do not know what money will look like. You do not know if you will be living on pennies or able to have the “extras”. Would you really say “no, we’re not going to do that because it’s not economical” when you want the flexibility to spend money on things that are convenient for you? (like diapers if you’re the SAHP) In short, what gives you the right to say that your family will spend on conveniences that make your duties easier but demand “economy” out of him?

 

[jfz178]

Yep. I only see about 5 or 6 items that should be show-stoppers. I have been married for 39 years and we have known the details of dozens of successful and unsuccessful marriages. Your whole list eliminates almost all of the successful ones, including ours. I have seen marriages that don’t check off several of them that turned out great.

Also your whole list would not have eliminated hardly any of the unsuccessful ones, because the issues occurred after the marriage or were so covered up before the marriage that there is no way a person could have found out. Some turned out so bizarrely that you might even believe the stories and were horrible for at least one of the participants. I mean really, really bad stuff. But they were good going in.

Hey, do what you want, it’s your life. But I think you have already eliminated Mr. Right with your list. The two of you will never get together. So that leaves the single life or something less.

 

[DarkLight]

I am terrified of things going badly.

You do the same thing I do, I imagine. You see that things could go very badly, and you try to make a list of everything so it blocks everything off. It’s comforting, but it can also make you more anxious if you try too hard, because you can never get everything on your list, and it can make you more scared of people.

Honestly, my advice would be to spend less time thinking about the right man, and more praying for guidance and for your own spiritual strengthening. A woman who is strong and secure in God’s will is much less likely to be led astray by an ungodly man.

 

[LadyLillian]

So you marry someone with a good income and you’re also making a good income. Are you going to refuse that he be allowed to rent a video off of Amazon? What if he wants the name brand parmesan cheese? What if he wants to wash his car in the car wash regularly? Why is your “economical” so very important to you?

My husband can do anything he wants with the money he makes, including all of the things you mention. I would hope that the funds we pool together for our house, kids, etc, could be used according to the budget we agree on. Granted, there will be times we don’t follow it perfectly, and that;s okay, as long as we can pay the bills. Anything that is important to my husband is welcome in our budget.

Economical is important to me because I don’t want to be homeless, I want my children to have food and it would be nice to take some vacations. And again, money is the leading cause of divorce–I’d like to stay married.