Sr. Joan at work again

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Hi all,

Benetvision, is Sr. Joan Chittister’s (dissenter at large) web site. I got this info from a pamphlet that “appeared” (I suspect it was apparently planted there) on a pedastal that was next to the table of our monthly discussion group. The pastoral assoc. at this parish (which is joined with my parish) is an advocate of Sr. JC.
I’ve been talking to some younger twentysomethings who attend this parish and we had a long talk. The couple is quite orthodox 🙂 and have noticed this PA is v energetic and passionate, but sometimes she brought up things that weren’t jibing with their understanding of Catholicism. We had a nice long talk today. I think we’re gonna be good friends.

So I figured, I know what SJC is about, I’ll read this pamphlet and see if there’s anything really weird in it. No worry – it’s pablum, no scriptural references; it was about The Monastic Way and food. Actually, it read more like a chef wrote it as an intro to a cookbook. Also on the front is a quote from (a Catholic author, Jesus, Mother Theresa, a Saint, maybe?) - no – Luciano Pavarotti, the opera tenor!! There were a couple quotes that were interesting; one was from a Chinese philosopher, another from a Chinese poet. That’s Joan! :o

Her web site is like an advertisement for Her; click here for Joan’s articles; it seems to be All About Joan. Not any mention of the Bible AFAI could see.

And then I found this link about how she bombed in New Zealand, which is tending to get fairly Liberal, at least govt-wise.
lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07070302.html

I just want to warn people if they see this stuff coming into their parish, BEWARE. Run out immediately and go read some Scott or Kimberly Hahn, or better yet, JESUS OF NAZARETH by Papa Ratzi, I mean Pope Benedict XVI. My DH said “This is the book I’ve been waiting for all my life!”

Maybe I’ll send that PA’s the book and lifesite link…

God bless,
Mimi
PS Pray for Sr. Joan’s conversion!
 
DaveBj said:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Those pictures say it all. Hurray for nun who want to look and act like nuns.
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I have no fondness for Sr Joan Chittister (I believe she’s due to speak in a neighbouring diocese soon) but I was educated by wonderful and very holy nuns who didn’t wear the traditional habit, so I have to stick up for them if not for her.

Why on earth do you think all nuns have to ‘look’ or ‘act’ in a uniform way? Did Jesus ‘look’ or ‘act’ like the Messiah the Jews were expecting? Or even like other rabbis of the time (since He was a rabbi too)? Not a bit. Quite the opposite.

And basing your argument on four whole photographs? What do these seriously tell us of the lives of these women? Precious little.
 
LilyM said:
I have no fondness for Sr Joan Chittister (I believe she’s due to speak in a neighbouring diocese soon) but I was educated by wonderful and very holy nuns who didn’t wear the traditional habit, so I have to stick up for them if not for her.

Why on earth do you think all nuns have to ‘look’ or ‘act’ in a uniform way? Did Jesus ‘look’ or ‘act’ like the Messiah the Jews were expecting? Or even like other rabbis of the time (since He was a rabbi too)? Not a bit. Quite the opposite.

And basing your argument on four whole photographs? What do these seriously tell us of the lives of these women? Precious little.
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There have been some wonderful women that I have known that have not worn the traditional habit. More than a few of them were more or less victim’s of the reigning leadership’s sensibilities - if they had opted to wear the optional habit, the options to them would have been less then optimal.

Please note, there was no ***whole argument ***here. There were four pictures here comparing and contrasting two groups. Appearance only? Sure. I ask you my humble forum members to look deeper…

http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/Pics/her sisters of life.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1356/nta2006032657063pv4qs.jpg
Sister Mary Elizabeth, left, and Sister Immaculata, with the Sisters Of Life, St. Frances DeChantal Convent in the borough of the Bronx, N.Y.,

(from amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/03/sisters_for_lif.html)

sistersoflife.org/

http://www.nashvilledominican.org/News/Community_News/Photos/lake.jpg
nashvilledominican.org/

The first two are the Sisters of Life in NYC - a community less than 20 years old.

The second are last years postulants for the Nashville Domincans.

So what IS going on over there in the Bronx or down there in Nashville?

What is NOT going on over in Erie?
 
 
First, Sister Joan was speaking at the request of a group called Adult Education in Spirituality, Personal Formation, Social and Environmental Concern

homepages.paradise.net.nz/aet/Index.htm. Read the webpage to see what this group is about. It does not appear to be affiliated with a particular religious domination.
And then I found this link about how she bombed in New Zealand, which is tending to get fairly Liberal, at least govt-wise.
lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07070302.html
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I did not get the impression from this article that she bombed in New Zealand. I think the Bishop of Christchurch didn’t want her appearances associated with the Diocese of Christchurch (and her appearance wasn’t associated with the Church.)

There is a video on line of her speech in Aukland at St. Matthew-in-the-City, which is an Anglican church. Her talk is on the Gospel passage of the Transfiguration.

Here is the link stmatthews.org.nz/news.php?nid=105&sid=88 of the talk, and there is another link of the question/answer period.

I am curious: have you read any of her works or have you depended on the press releases that are critical of her?
 
Petite said:
First, Sister Joan was speaking at the request of a group called Adult Education in Spirituality, Personal Formation, Social and Environmental Concern

homepages.paradise.net.nz/aet/Index.htm. Read the webpage to see what this group is about. It does not appear to be affiliated with a particular religious domination.

I did not get the impression from this article that she bombed in New Zealand. I think the Bishop of Christchurch didn’t want her appearances associated with the Diocese of Christchurch (and her appearance wasn’t associated with the Church.)

There is a video on line of her speech in Aukland at St. Matthew-in-the-City, which is an Anglican church. Her talk is on the Gospel passage of the Transfiguration.

Here is the link stmatthews.org.nz/news.php?nid=105&sid=88 of the talk, and there is another link of the question/answer period.

I am curious: have you read any of her works or have you depended on the press releases that are critical of her?
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Just an example of what I have found:

wf-f.org/0901steichenpopejoan.html

…she likes to think of herself as a hollow statue of a prophet, speaking for the Holy Spirit.

…Sister Joan is angered by the exclusion of women from the priesthood. She demands that women and homosexuals be involved in Church policy-making. She strenuously advocates “inclusive” liturgical language and declines to use either masculine pronouns in reference to God or feminine pronouns in reference to the Church.

…Only God knows her heart and what she truly loves. But constant defiance and disobedience seems a very strange sort of love. Her public witness undermines the Catholic faith, erodes confidence in Church authority, and causes scandal to the faithful.
 
Philothea53 said:
Just an example of what I have found:

wf-f.org/0901steichenpopejoan.html

…she likes to think of herself as a hollow statue of a prophet, speaking for the Holy Spirit.

…Sister Joan is angered by the exclusion of women from the priesthood. She demands that women and homosexuals be involved in Church policy-making. She strenuously advocates “inclusive” liturgical language and declines to use either masculine pronouns in reference to God or feminine pronouns in reference to the Church.

…Only God knows her heart and what she truly loves. But constant defiance and disobedience seems a very strange sort of love. Her public witness undermines the Catholic faith, erodes confidence in Church authority, and causes scandal to the faithful.
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This is Donna Steichen’s opinion of what she has read of Sr. Joan’s writings. My question was have YOU read any of her work yourself? Check out the video link I posted–it’s not that long. Then critique what you don’t like about what she said/wrote.
 
“Sister” Joan is 71 years old. Give it another 5 to 10 years, and we won’t need to worry about her any more, one way or the other.

Time marches on, and hers is about up.
 
Petite said:
I am curious: have you read any of her works or have you depended on the press releases that are critical of her?
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I have read her stuff for years. Several of her books, most commonly her weekly column which can be found here (archives included)

homepages.paradise.net.nz/aet/Index.htm

My distaste for her writing and agitation is, for me, the fruit of having read and heard what she has to say. Her all too common frequent and snide remarks about and against the Church’s teaching on the ordination of women redefinition of teachings on sexuality are, for me most problematic.
Petite said:
My question was have YOU read any of her work yourself? Check out the video link I posted–it’s not that long. Then critique what you don’t like about what she said/wrote.
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On that particular link, we can’t presuppose it to represent her body of work and thought in totality. Certainly she is capable of benign moments of folksy and endearing writing and lecture. (Even a stopped clock will be right twice a day.)

But taken as a whole, as someone who has been reading her column for over a decade? From where I stand, I can’t commend her views to someone as being representitive of Catholic thought.
 
To demand admittance to the Sacrament of Holy Orders shows me that what is loved is not service, but rather power. That is always demonic in origin. Did not Satan want to be equal with God? I was once called a “pig” by one of Sr. C’s sisters when i challenged her very vocal and angry tirade about women being admitted to the priesthood, and this at a meeting in our church. I said to her “Isn’t the reason you feel this way, is because it is about power to you? I mean look if you want to serve God there are 150 ways at least to do so.” That is when she railed at me from her pulpit and said “oh, you must be a pig”

Prophetic does not mean demanding policy changes, power, or respect for that which the Church teachs is blatently sinful. We are prophetic by our vocation as Christians…called to be holy…to challenge those around us to greater heights of holiness…

I am sorry but to me, her message borders on demonic.
 
I have read her stuff for years.
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Several of her books, most commonly her weekly column which can be found here (archives included)

homepages.paradise.net.nz/aet/Index.htm

Since you are well versed in Sr. Joan’s writings, perhaps you could be more specific than this:
**My distaste for her writing and agitation is, for me, the fruit of having read and heard what she has to say. ** Her all too common frequent and snide remarks about and against the Church’s teaching on the ordination of women redefinition of teachings on sexuality are, for me most problematic.
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What does she say about ordination? What about the redefinition of the teachngs on sexuality?
On that particular link, we can’t presuppose it to represent her body of work and thought in totality. Certainly she is capable of benign moments of folksy and endearing writing and lecture. (Even a stopped clock will be right twice a day.)
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Of course, one speech will not summarize all that she has written. (She is quite a prolific writer.)
But taken as a whole, as someone who has been reading her column for over a decade? From where I stand, I can’t commend her views to someone as being representitive of Catholic thought
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Do you think she is trying to be representative of Catholic thought? Is she speaking as an official voice of the Church? Has she claimed to speak as an official voice of the Church?

I am curious too why you have read her so much if you find her writings agitating and distasteful?
 
I know this will sound mean but I can’t wait until the remnants of the 60s hippies/feminists retire into the dustbin of history so the rest of us can move on…

I really do hope she converts, but when somebody sees the world, the Church, and God through the lens of deranged feminism it seems like that is something very hard to do, because it would mean giving up power.:rolleyes:

She must have a hard life. I will pray for her.
 
Petite said:
I did not get the impression from this article that she bombed in New Zealand. I think the Bishop of Christchurch didn’t want her appearances associated with the Diocese of Christchurch (and her appearance wasn’t associated with the Church.)
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A Catholic bishop that does not want a Catholic nun to be associated with his diocese – I’d say that’s a NUCLEAR BOMB.
Petite said:
There is a video on line of her speech in Aukland at St. Matthew-in-the-City, which is an Anglican church.
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So she resorts to speaking at an Anglican church? Yet another bomb.
 
lepanto said:
A Catholic bishop that does not want a Catholic nun to be associated with his diocese – I’d say that’s a NUCLEAR BOMB.
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It would be if she had sought his consent to her appearance. But she didn’t:
The Catholic Bishop of Christchurch, Barry Jones, is opposing a visit by a controversial feminist nun from the United States.
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He has written to priests saying that next week’s visit by Benedictine nun Sister Joan Chittister is unauthorised.
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Permission for the event had not been sought or given, and Jones did not want it promoted through Catholic churches.
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stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepress/4112734a6530.html
So she resorts to speaking at an Anglican church? Yet another bomb.
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Sister Joan was speaking at the request of a group called Adult Education in Spirituality, Personal Formation, Social and Environmental Concern.
An independent group of Catholic lay people, the Adult Education Trust, has invited Chittister to Christchurch.
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She will speak about spirituality, culture, justice and “God, women and the world”.
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[From the same newspaper article]
 
Petite said:
Since you are well versed in Sr. Joan’s writings, perhaps you could be more specific than this:
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Are you looking for chapter and verse?
Petite said:
What does she say about ordination? What about the redefinition of the teachngs on sexuality?
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She remains an active agitator for women’s admission to Holy Orders and a proponent of re-opening (with an end view of changing) the discussion and debate on same-sex unions, contraception and abortion. With this I at least half suspected you would be familiar.
Petite said:
Do you think she is trying to be representative of Catholic thought? Is she speaking as an official voice of the Church? Has she claimed to speak as an official voice of the Church?
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Nuanced and interesting questions. But my comment was "But taken as a whole, as someone who has been reading her column for over a decade? From where I stand, I can’t commend her views to someone as being representitive of Catholic thought "

Of course it pays to do one’s own due dilligence. But as a self-identified (and accurately so) member of a Catholic religous order in good canonical standing with the Church, she never seems to take care to point out that one of her big battle cries “Women’s Ordination Now” is so incompatible with Catholic teaching, to see that dream fulfilled she would need to leave.

TO agitate for that which is incompatible and irreconcialable with the Catholic faith while enjoying the status of a Catholic religous and presenting arguments in just such a way that they might be percieved as being tenable for a Catholic to hold as compatible with the Catholic faith (even women’s ordination alone) is problematic. It seems as incongruous as a NASA engineer making haste to be an exponent of the “flat Earth theory.”
Petite said:
I am curious too why you have read her so much if you find her writings agitating and distasteful?
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Are you incredulous that someone would read that which they disagree with? That someone would not, even through a criticial lense, benifit from the examination of points of view with which they disagree.

Embarassing truth be known, over a decade ago, I was actually rather taken in by her stance and supported women’s ordination. The senior thesis that I wrote for graduation was heavily influenced by sources and authors she cited. The topic of my paper? An apologia for women’s admission to Holy Orders.
 
How can anyone who considers themselves a Catholic in good standing stick up for this woman?
 
Petite said:
I am curious: have you read any of her works or have you depended on the press releases that are critical of her?
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I’ve read her columns and seen her speak on TV. The information in the press releases is just the tip of the iceberg–the kind of iceberg that leaves you completely shipwrecked in the faith 😦
 
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