SSPX and women in positions of authority

[THutch04]

I played field hockey for four years of high school and I can’t say the referees EVER dressed immodestly. The female referees would either wear knee-length shorts, a skirt of the same length, and sometimes they would wear pants if it was cold. Trust me there’s nothing provokative about their uniform, and I highly doubt that anyone who is paying attention to the game is really focused on what the refs are wearing. In my martial arts training as well I’ve never seen anything that would imply men and women shouldn’t be together. Men and women sparred against each other if they were of the same height and weight, and it wasn’t always the men winning.

Actually, now that I think about it, I really miss the athletic experiences I had before I came to college and unfortunately am no longer able to do. Now I want to go find a field hockey stick and start playing!

 

[Brother_John]

Nice to see you starting things off in a good spirit.

Speaking of which, this thread got me to wondering…

“Does God have sex organs” ?

 

[GerardP]

Speaking of which, this thread got me to wondering…

“Does God have sex organs” ?

Yes. In Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity. His circumcision is a feast day.

 

[GerardP]

I honestly don’t think that the main emphasis on sports is male bonding/building whatever.

Obviously, if you are going to use something as a mere pastime or a valuable teaching tool, there are going to be different opinions. You can listen to good music actively or bad music as background music, one is a good use of time the other is noise.

Yes I agree that boys do need to learn from Men what being a Man is all about but part of being a Man is taking care of woman when the need arises.

So, the boys are on the court in order to take care of the Referee?

Just as there are SOME things that a woman can’t teach a boy to be a man so also there are SOME things that a man can’t teach a boy about women either.

Is the sports arena the place to learn those things?

Sports are athletic activities that help build team play, physical endurance, and enjoyment.

You don’t need sports for any of those. Music studies and labor will do the same things.

I see nothing wrong with boys playing a sport with a female referee.

The question is, what do you see right with it? It seems our society with it’s casual, “why not? It’s a victimless crime.” mentality is willing to do things and abide by things not for a good reason or a bad reason but no reason at all.

 

[bear06]

Bear06, there are acceptable situations where men can be with other men and women with other women, such as a monastery or convent. In fact, one monastery in Italy even disallows female animals, except for cats because they have a rat problem but the point is, it’s ok for men to steer away from females and temptation for the greater glory of God, if that is their calling. I think women need to respect that.

I’m not sure why you posted this to me? I have no problem with this at all.

 

[bear06]

If not having women referee games was so important to St. Mary’s one would think that this issue would have come up before now. I don’t know the mechanics of how sporting events are arranged, but couldn’t they have explained their position ahead of time to the authorities and avoided this whole mess?

Considering it was the end of the b-ball season I’m really not sure why the women ref was a suprise either.

 

[bear06]

I played field hockey for four years of high school and I can’t say the referees EVER dressed immodestly. The female referees would either wear knee-length shorts, a skirt of the same length, and sometimes they would wear pants if it was cold.

Obviously you don’t know the SSPX’s opinion on shorts and pants! But, I suppose that’s a whole other topic!

 

[childofmary1143]

The problem here that I see it in MHO is that the school is sending the message that boys should not be subject to adult women (excluding their Mothers I hope). This is a very dangerous trend. Sports are recreational fun for most people. I doubt that these boys will be NBA players and so its recreational fun for them. Yes you can learn important life skills (like team play) but to remove them from a game because the referee is a woman is not character building at all.

The 4th Commandment is to Honor thy Father and Mother. It also included to obey all lawful authority. In a basketball game the players must obey the referee. I don’t like any Catholic school that teaches boys not to be subject to adult women. I would even dare say the Commandments back me up on that one.

 

[GerardP]

The problem here that I see it in MHO is that the school is sending the message that boys should not be subject to adult women (excluding their Mothers I hope).

More likely, they are getting the message that radical feminism has invaded virtually every aspect of society.

This is a very dangerous trend. Sports are recreational fun for most people. I doubt that these boys will be NBA players and so its recreational fun for them.

Sex is recreational fun for most people. That doesn’t make it right to treat it that way and St. Mary’s makes it clear that the purpose of sports is about formation. Recreational fun can be in a pickup game on the kids’ own time.

Yes you can learn important life skills (like team play) but to remove them from a game because the referee is a woman is not character building at all.

Learning that something is wrong in the society when gender differences are considered non-existent is character building.
This is no different than the plethora of female “extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion.” The whole point of the feminist agenda is for people to actually see females in more and more male roles. This prepares the way for female priest in the case of EMHCs.

The 4th Commandment is to Honor thy Father and Mother. It also included to obey all lawful authority. In a basketball game the players must obey the referee.

It was the coach and the school policy that determined that the female referee was not appropriate for the purpose that the boys were playing the game. Just as the school forfeited a game so they wouldn’t play against a team with a girl on it, they made the decision for the boys. The principal is more important than the game.

I don’t like any Catholic school that teaches boys not to be subject to adult women.

That’s simply not the case. The School doesn’t subject women to abandoning their femininity.

I would even dare say the Commandments back me up on that one.

That’s a stretch. Honoring your Father and Mother would also require you to respect their individual roles. Giving creedence to gender blending would not be honorable.

 

[GerardP]

I played field hockey for four years of high school and I can’t say the referees EVER dressed immodestly. The female referees would either wear knee-length shorts, a skirt of the same length, and sometimes they would wear pants if it was cold. Trust me there’s nothing provokative about their uniform,

Did they look feminine or masculine or neutral?

In my martial arts training as well I’ve never seen anything that would imply men and women shouldn’t be together. Men and women sparred against each other if they were of the same height and weight, and it wasn’t always the men winning.

That’s because men will naturally hold back in a scenario like that. There’s no deep need in a man to push themselves to athletically beat a woman.

 

[bear06]

The problem here that I see it in MHO is that the school is sending the message that boys should not be subject to adult women (excluding their Mothers I hope). This is a very dangerous trend.

.

This is a VERY good point and it’s a problem I’ve often seen in devout Catholic families. “Wives be submissive to you husband” is emphasized and “husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church” is not. It rubs off on the children and mom is suddenly more than submissive, she’s a doormat, taken for granted and just plain old disrespective. There’s quite a balance to be had in these verses from scripture that’s always a struggle for us humans. That said, they also need to be kept in balance without blurring the gender roles.

 

[ritthichai]

It couldn’t be that SSPX is full of old-fashioned sexists, could it?

 

[ProVobis]

You mean like Archie Bunker or Raymond? Seems as if they were very popular TV shows.

 

[childofmary1143]

More likely, they are getting the message that radical feminism has invaded virtually every aspect of society.

Oh yes radical feminism’s goal is to referee basketball games for Catholic school boys. This comment clearly shows how little you understand radical feminism.

Sex is recreational fun for most people. That doesn’t make it right to treat it that way and St. Mary’s makes it clear that the purpose of sports is about formation. Recreational fun can be in a pickup game on the kids’ own time.

So playing basketball is the same as promiscous sex eh?

Learning that something is wrong in the society when gender differences are considered non-existent is character building.
This is no different than the plethora of female “extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion.” The whole point of the feminist agenda is for people to actually see females in more and more male roles. This prepares the way for female priest in the case of EMHCs.

We aren’t discussing whether EMHC’s should be allowed but about a school who clearly has psychological problems about women. BTW do you think its more acceptable for a man to be a EMHC than say a woman?

It was the coach and the school policy that determined that the female referee was not appropriate for the purpose that the boys were playing the game. Just as the school forfeited a game so they wouldn’t play against a team with a girl on it, they made the decision for the boys. The principal is more important than the game.

Yes it was the coach and the school policy that determined that and it is them that will be held responsible for it. They are instilling in the boys that women can’t have any authority over them. This is very frightening and wrong.

That’s simply not the case. The School doesn’t subject women to abandoning their femininity.

The School has NO credibility to speak about femininity.

 

[latinmasslover]

It couldn’t be that SSPX is full of old-fashioned sexists, could it?

It’s not their fault they have standards. If you have a problem with the way God created men and women, you should take it up with Him, and not the SSPX.

 

[GerardP]

Oh yes radical feminism’s goal is to referee basketball games for Catholic school boys. This comment clearly shows how little you understand radical feminism.

Who said it was the goal? It’s a step along the way to the goal. Incrementalism. Ever hear of it? And you’re free to “educate” me in radical feminism whenever you want. You keep saying “how little” I know without ever showing me how little I know.

So playing basketball is the same as promiscous sex eh?

You based your argument that sports is merely recreational fun and justified female referees on that basis. Do large segments of the population few promiscuous sex as recreational fun or not?

Come up with a better argument because the one you’re using doesn’t make sense.

We aren’t discussing whether EMHC’s should be allowed but about a school who clearly has psychological problems about women.

The EMHCs are another example of the same demonic force that is attacking the family. The problem is you don’t see it or you don’t want to see it.

The school does not have psychological problems about women. It’s the only group in this whole scenario that admits women are woment. The rest of the “officials” are all ridiculously pretending to be “gender neutral” Who has the psychological problem about women now?

BTW do you think its more acceptable for a man to be a EMHC than say a woman?

The whole concept of the EMHC is abhorrent, but men at least can symbolize Christ more directly. Women should not be in the sanctuary. The men are at the service of the women and the community at Mass.

Yes it was the coach and the school policy that determined that and it is them that will be held responsible for it.

They should be given medals. They keep God at the forefront of everything instead of making sports a Godless diversion.

They are instilling in the boys that women can’t have any authority over them. This is very frightening and wrong.

You’ve been corrected on this before and you keep going back to it. That is not what they teach. If you’re determined to swim in ignorance on this, that’s your fault.

The School has NO credibility to speak about femininity.

Prove it. The SSPX at least has a definable, clear, rational, traditional common sense understanding of gender roles.

Just what grand philosophy are you preaching? Show us how credible you are when it comes to understanding God’s order in nature. Tell us what “true femininity” is via Gloria Steinem, Naomi Wolfe or Camille Paglia.

 

[system]

Speaking of which, this thread got me to wondering…

“Does God have sex organs” ?

Yes. In Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity. His circumcision is a feast day.

**“FOUL” !! **

It’s totally unfair to tell a “Brother” what the Catholic feast days are!

 

[psr13]

Now, I personally don’t have a problem with a female referring the game. What I do have a problem with is this. This school is being judged and facing a case because it is exercising it’s right to freedom of religion. It is a private institution that doesn’t take government money. It should not be forced to accept things that go against what the school stands for.

On a side note, when I was in Tae Kwon Do, men and women didn’t spar each other. We usually had enough people for that to be done. However, a few odd times it had to be mixed. The guys didn’t always hold back, either.

 

[Margarite]

This is part of an e-mail from a person in the society who knows the coach and almost everyone in St. Marys. Thank goodness, I am out of the SSPX and that tiny town.

“The fact that women cannot have authority over men is false. Many women teach at St. Marys Academy and College and of course boys have to listen to all adults and even more so their mothers. This is a ridiculous lie.
Fr. Griego addressed this situation a couple weeks ago saying that he respected the role of women too much to allow a woman to so degrade herself. It is un-feminine and demeaning to the dignity of women.
Charlie Koskinen (a member of St. Marys SSPX parish) said that he never told the KC Star that women cannot have authority over boys. The KC Star is known to be anti-religion though, so this does not come as too much of a shock. It was the KC Star that made this national news, not anyone in St. Marys. The KC Star invented all this heresy.”

I can understand the part about it being “un-feminine” to them. I know these SSPX people in St. Marys and they live a very “sheltered” life. Whenever they go out of KS it is sort of like Dorthy suddenly seeing in color, what she has always seen in black and white. Or like a turtle that pokes its head out of its shell only to see the face of a monster. The turtle shrinks back into its shell and does not come out again for years. I mean if 98% of all women you saw had sleeves down to their elbow and skirts below their ankles, you would be scandalized to see a woman like this ref,
(wearing shorts and a T-shirt), too.
That is the way they are. Now this person who e-mailed me said that women are equal to men, I disagree. Women are thought of almost in the same way they are thought of by Muslims. Women are not to do sports, women are not to study too much, women are to obey their husbands without question unless their husband is leaving the SSPX, women should never wear pants, all skirts should come below the ankle, all shirts must cover the collar bone, all shirts should come at least half way down the arm, etc… Sure a boy must obey his mother, but a mother must also obey her son.
I exaggerate a little when saying that they are equal to Muslims, but I am frustrated with the SSPX and I just wish they would join the rest of us in the fight to win back the Church from the Liberals.

Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite

 

[seekerz]

This is part of an e-mail from a person in the society who knows the coach and almost everyone in St. Marys. Thank goodness, I am out of the SSPX and that tiny town.

“The fact that women cannot have authority over men is false. Many women teach at St. Marys Academy and College and of course boys have to listen to all adults and even more so their mothers. This is a ridiculous lie.
Fr. Griego addressed this situation a couple weeks ago saying that he respected the role of women too much to allow a woman to so degrade herself. It is un-feminine and demeaning to the dignity of women.
Charlie Koskinen (a member of St. Marys SSPX parish) said that he never told the KC Star that women cannot have authority over boys. The KC Star is known to be anti-religion though, so this does not come as too much of a shock. It was the KC Star that made this national news, not anyone in St. Marys. The KC Star invented all this heresy.”

I can understand the part about it being “un-feminine” to them. I know these SSPX people in St. Marys and they live a very “sheltered” life. Whenever they go out of KS it is sort of like Dorthy suddenly seeing in color, what she has always seen in black and white. Or like a turtle that pokes its head out of its shell only to see the face of a monster. The turtle shrinks back into its shell and does not come out again for years. I mean if 98% of all women you saw had sleeves down to their elbow and skirts below their ankles, you would be scandalized to see a woman like this ref,
(wearing shorts and a T-shirt), too.
That is the way they are. Now this person who e-mailed me said that women are equal to men, I disagree. Women are thought of almost in the same way they are thought of by Muslims. Women are not to do sports, women are not to study too much, women are to obey their husbands without question unless their husband is leaving the SSPX, women should never wear pants, all skirts should come below the ankle, all shirts must cover the collar bone, all shirts should come at least half way down the arm, etc… Sure a boy must obey his mother, but a mother must also obey her son.
I exaggerate a little when saying that they are equal to Muslims, but I am frustrated with the SSPX and I just wish they would join the rest of us in the fight to win back the Church from the Liberals.

Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite

Are these people for real? God help them. One of the central messages of the Gospel to me, is the idea of love controlling our lives rather than arbitrary rules. It’s not about what rules you follow or exactly how many inches long your skirt is but what the attitude of your heart is towards God and your fellow man.

If God wanted women to obey unquestioningly rather than participate with their partners in making intelligent decisions, He wouldn’t have bothered to give us a brain and He would have made men responsible for our sins (since we have to do whatever they say).

More to the point, how can sport or study be considered unfeminine? For that matter, who decides what’s feminine; is it not a consensus of society? In some cultures men wear skirts, do the grocery shopping and even take charge of food preparation (all while lording it over the women in their lives); are such men being unfeminine by SSPX standards?

Call me dense, but I just don’t get how this level of control over individuals jives with the “freedom from the law” projected in the Gospel.