SSPX Seattle

[Tomster]

I don’t know if it is so much that the SSPX is not welcome, as much as dissent is. Be it a Catholic who posts in support of the SSPX stance that they need to teach the Faith to the Pope, and Rome has lost it’s dogmatic and moral ground, or an ultra liberal who promotes other equally non-Catholic ideas that Homosexual Marriage is just dandy and a woman should be able to abort her unborn child, would end up with a ban, and be unwelcomed, as it does not conform to Catholic standards.

Having been smack dab in the middle of the SSPX for well over a decade, I can tell you that externalally the Mass you attend at the FSSP church follows the same Missal, and rubrics as the SSPX, What will be different is the FSSP parish will promote the unity of the Faith with the Holy Father. The SSPX chapels will isolate you from unity and call into question the Pope and most anyone who does not belong to or adhere to the Society.

And this is why I have never set foot in an SSPX chapel. In all honesty, though, I do have a soft spot in my heart for them. I just wish that they would sign off on Vatican II and present their case within the bosom of Holy Mother Church. They have so much to offer.

 

[po18guy]

Thank you all for the replies. As I said in my original post, at this point, it is only an interest. I am new in this forum and I am quickly realizing that SSPX is not very welcome here and that some SSPX members have been even banned.

1. There are forum rules that are agreed to when joining. Whoever violates them long enough and/or seriously enough, ends up being banned.
2. The SSPX is driven by a spirit, as are all organizations and living beings. However, since they have consciously chosen disobedience, and have caused division, they cannot be motivated by the Holy Spirit. Impossible.
3. If you feel drawn to disobedience and division, you are free to choose that path.

 

[DCHRISTINE]

Please forgive my ignorance. What do the initials SSPX and FSSP stand for? Could you educate me, are they types of Catholic churches or special devotions? Thank you.

I just heard these terms today as well, so i am not sure what on earth are they talking about??? I read a little and am confused if they are Roman Catholic or not and if they say the mass in Latin or English???

 

[holyfamily1]

The SSPX is the Society of the Saint Pius X, they aren’t in full communion with Rome.
The FSSP is the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, they are in full communion with Rome.
Both organizations are societies or fraternities for priests. Both only say the Tridentine Mass (Extraordinary Form, Latin Mass)
God Bless!

 

[DCHRISTINE]

Thank you for your simple clarification. Also my parish is Holy Family

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Hello all,

I am looking for information on the SSPX Chapel in Edmonds, WA. I currently attend the FSSP North American Martyrs parish in Ballard but I am interested in attending the SSPX Chapel. I cannot find a website nor any information. Are there any parishioners?

Thank you!

Hi Cantarella,

I don’t really have any info on the SSPX Church in Edmonds but I have noticed that within the SSPX there has been divisions springing up between the superior general and a couple of their Bishops. Some chapels are now known as resistance chapels so this could be why you’re not finding any info. I say talk to Fr. Saguto about what’s going on. I don’t know why you’re interested in the SSPX but I think it might have something to do with being a traditional Catholic while living in such a liberal state as Washington. It’s easy to feel very alone here.

PAX

 

[bben15]

Just keep in mind that if you have the option of attending an FSSP Mass, you have no business going to an SSPX Mass.

 

[Denise1957]

Hello all,

I am looking for information on the SSPX Chapel in Edmonds, WA. I currently attend the FSSP North American Martyrs parish in Ballard but I am interested in attending the SSPX Chapel. I cannot find a website nor any information. Are there any parishioners?

Thank you!

There are indeed parishioners, quite a few, but I don’t think that they technically can be called parishioners since it’s not an actual parish (as you mentioned it’s a chapel), since it isn’t associated with the diocese at all. It’s also small and cramped. There is a mixture of very devout Catholics there who love their faith, but also some who are critical of the Pope and magisterium. But then this probably describes some at NAM, too. One person on the thread mentioned that it might be a resistence chapel but that seems unlikely. There are no resident priests there, as far as I know - the priests have to take a plane from Post Falls to Seattle every weekend (they are based in Post Falls).

As others here have said, it’s best to stay away from an SSPX chapel. You’ve got NAM available, and there are OF Masses in the area that are reverent as well.

 

[larsont7]

To answer the OP’s question, which seemed like a reasonable one, here is the info I found on the SSPX website regarding that chapel:

Corpus Christi Church
204 6th Avenue N.
Edmonds (Seattle), WA 98020
425-771-9208
Priest: Fr. Christopher Hunter

Sunday 7:30am & 9:30am
1st Fri 7:00pm | 1st Sat 9:00am
Holy Days 7:00pm

Now I haven’t gotten to the point where I would personally attend an SSPX chapel, and I wouldn’t even recommend one attend them, but I’m certainly not going to judge anyone else who does so. Their situation is very complicated, and if they were as bad as most people on these forums think they are, Pope Benedict wouldn’t have tried as hard as he did to reconcile them with the Church. There are very holy people within the SSPX, and we’d do better to pray for them than rebuke them at every given opportunity.

 

[Boulder257]

Now I haven’t gotten to the point where I would personally attend an SSPX chapel, and I wouldn’t even recommend one attend them, but I’m certainly not going to judge anyone else who does so. Their situation is very complicated, and if they were as bad as most people on these forums think they are, Pope Benedict wouldn’t have tried as hard as he did to reconcile them with the Church. There are very holy people within the SSPX, and we’d do better to pray for them than rebuke them at every given opportunity.

Perhaps you misinterpreted the Holy Father’s actions. I am sure he wants to reconcile all sinners to the Church. Just because he tries so hard to reconcile someone to the Church does not mean that he approves of their current behavior. I would argue that his actions show just how much he knew they needed reconciling.

 

[corsair]

Good answer larsont7. I would like to refer folks to the Rorate Caeli BlogSpot for an article on todays post that attempts to explain why the “talks” fell apart last year. I think it is well put together.

 

[larsont7]

Perhaps you misinterpreted the Holy Father’s actions. I am sure he wants to reconcile all sinners to the Church. Just because he tries so hard to reconcile someone to the Church does not mean that he approves of their current behavior. I would argue that his actions show just how much he knew they needed reconciling.

Nothing you wrote contradicts what I said. Of course the Holy Father didn’t approve of their behavior and knew they needed reconciling - that’s why he was working towards that goal. If he completely agreed with their stance, they’d already be regularized. I was responding to the vitriol that the SSPX receives on this forum and others. As I said, they need our prayers, not the constant rebuking that some members feel they have to do with every SSPX thread that pops up.

Anyone who reads through the SSPX documents can see they have an argument. I don’t agree with them, but it’s not as black and white as some people make it out to be. Jurisdiction is a very complex issue, and I don’t think armchair theologians should be pontificating about what they don’t fully understand. And to compare the SSPX to Protestantism is just asinine, which is what I have seen done on here many times.

Many also don’t know that without the SSPX, we’d never have the FSSP (started by former SSPX priests). In fact, I doubt we would’ve had Summorum Pontificum had it not been for the work of the SSPX. Anyone who loves the TLM owes at least part of that gift to the Society.

 

[commenter]

The SSPX is the Society of the Saint Pius X, they aren’t in full communion with Rome.
The FSSP is the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, they are in full communion with Rome.
Both organizations are societies or fraternities for priests. Both only say the Tridentine Mass (Extraordinary Form, Latin Mass)
God Bless!

Is this really true, that the FSSP priests say only the EF?
I knew the EF is their preference, the special charism they want to spread. But I assumed they say the OF also. They are part of a diocese, they presumably sometimes say Mass at non-FSSP parishes, as well as other settings such as schools, hospitals, K of C, etc. Nowadays priests have to minister in many places. I would think they would need to say the OF when asked, especially weddings and funerals, for instance.

 

[JuantheTuba]

Is this really true, that the FSSP priests say only the EF?
I knew the EF is their preference, the special charism they want to spread. But I assumed they say the OF also. They are part of a diocese, they presumably sometimes say Mass at non-FSSP parishes, as well as other settings such as schools, hospitals, K of C, etc. Nowadays priests have to minister in many places. I would think they would need to say the OF when asked, especially weddings and funerals, for instance.

Yep, they’re exclusively EF in all their sacraments and liturgical life. Any diocesan work they might do outside their parish, they would do using the old liturgical books, and if the Bishop had a problem with that then he’d probabaly wouldn’t ask them. I’m pretty sure they don’t run into any problems when they offer funeral or weddings, because the only people asking them to officiate those events would probablyknow what to expect. In addition I don’t think their seminarians are trained at all in any of the new liturgical books.

 

[TimothyH]

Is this really true, that the FSSP priests say only the EF?
I knew the EF is their preference, the special charism they want to spread. But I assumed they say the OF also. They are part of a diocese, they presumably sometimes say Mass at non-FSSP parishes, as well as other settings such as schools, hospitals, K of C, etc. Nowadays priests have to minister in many places. I would think they would need to say the OF when asked, especially weddings and funerals, for instance.

The FSSP is a Society of Apostolic Life. Societies of Apostolic Life are independent of the Bishop for internal matters but in matters of public workship and the care of souls are bound to obey the bishop. This is as per canon law.

***SECTION II.

SOCIETIES OF APOSTOLIC LIFE (Cann. 731 - 755)**

**Can. 738 §1. All members are subject to their proper moderators according to the norm of the constitutions in those matters which regard the internal life and discipline of the society.

§2. They are also subject to the diocesan bishop in those matters which regard public worship, the care of souls**, and other works of the apostolate, with attention to ⇒ cann. 679-683.*

So if the bishop says they must say the Ordinary Form of the Mass then they must, or they are in violation of canon law and have commited an act of disobedience against the legitimate authority of the Church. One would presume that the Bishop would discuss his desire for the priests to celebrate the OF with the FSSP before they are invited into the diocese, that he would let them know ahead of time that he may be requesting it, and that he would be respectful of their desire not to say the OF having invited them into the diocese in the first place.

Apart from Canon Law, no one may refuse to do what the Church herself says is “Ordinary” or normative.

-Tim-

 

[larsont7]

What TimothyH says is true, though I have never heard of an FSSP priest saying the OF (not one that is still with the Fraternity, anyway). Could they be required to say it? Yes. Is it likely they would be required to? Probably not.

Has anyone else on here heard of an FSSP priest saying the OF?

 

[TimothyH]

What TimothyH says is true, though I have never heard of an FSSP priest saying the OF (not one that is still with the Fraternity, anyway). Could they be required to say it? Yes. Is it likely they would be required to? Probably not.

Has anyone else on here heard of an FSSP priest saying the OF?

Some concelebrate the Crism Mass, or so I am told.

I’m sure that no FSSP priest, after having been invited by a Bishop into a diocese and given factulties by the Bishop to operate in the diocese, would disobey the bishop’s wishes that he say the Ordinary Form of the Mass should he ask.

First of all, it is not the priest’s right to refuse to do what is ordinary and normal in the Church.

And what if the Bishop dies or retires and the new bishop has other ideas?

Can. 738 §2 says that FSSP priests are “subject to the diocesan bishop in those matters which regard public worship”. This is a reality they must accept and that acceptance is a a major differentiator between the FSSP and SSPX.

-Tim-

 

[larsont7]

Some concelebrate the Crism Mass, or so I am told.

I’ve read this on other internet fora as well, but no one has ever cited an example. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, I’d just be interested in knowing if it’s true or just rumor.

I’m sure that no FSSP priest, after having been invited by a Bishop into a diocese and given factulties by the Bishop to operate in the diocese, would disobey the bishop’s wishes that he say the Ordinary Form of the Mass should he ask.

First of all, it is not the priest’s right to refuse to do what is ordinary and normal in the Church.

And what if the Bishop dies or retires and the new bishop has other ideas?

Can. 738 §2 says that FSSP priests are “subject to the diocesan bishop in those matters which regard public worship”. This is a reality they must accept and that acceptance is a a major differentiator between the FSSP and SSPX.

-Tim-

Like I said, I don’t disagree with what you. I just don’t see it happening very often (or at all). Generally the bishops who welcome the FSSP into their dioceses are not the ones who would want to force them to go against their charism. But like you mentioned, if a new bishop took over who had different views of the EF, then I could see this scenario playing out.

Also, I don’t know how simple it would be for an FSSP priest to just step in and start saying the OF of the Mass. Many of them have only offered or heard the EF for years, possibly decades. Granted, it probably wouldn’t take too much to learn the OF, but some minimal training would be needed at least.

 

[Ana_v]

Your confessions would be invalid if you obtain them from an SSPX priest.

Stick to your FSSP parish.

I have seen posts on Catholics blogs, that argue the position that their confessions are invalid because the priests lack jurisdiction, and the Sacrament of Reconciliation requires granted jurisdiction for the sacramental effect to take place, namely, absolution of sins.

However, I read a most question in response to this argument:

How is it that the Churches that are in schism (Eastern Orthodox churches), and therefore not in communion with the Chair of St. Peter, are said to administer all seven sacraments validly – which includes Reconciliation – and yet the SSPX do not? The former also lack jurisdiction from authority.

 

[bben15]

I have seen posts on Catholics blogs, that argue the position that their confessions are invalid because the priests lack jurisdiction, and the Sacrament of Reconciliation requires granted jurisdiction for the sacramental effect to take place, namely, absolution of sins.

However, I read a most question in response to this argument:

How is it that the Churches that are in schism (Eastern Orthodox churches), and therefore not in communion with the Chair of St. Peter, are said to administer all seven sacraments validly – which includes Reconciliation – and yet the SSPX do not? The former also lack jurisdiction from authority.

It is because the Orthodox do not administer the mysteries to Catholics.