Sspx

[BrooklynBoy200]

I’m not sure if SSPX is Catholic or not so i put it here. My first question is what is SSPX? I have a prayer from a SSPX website. Is it ok to pray it? It’s a prayer asking for the grace to become a priest. I hesitated when i saw a name at the bottom of the page i was not familiar with. Thankyou for the answers.

 

[I_A]

The SSPX is a schismatic group started by Archbishop Lefebre after the second vatican council and all the nutiness that people brought into the Church under the guise of the Spirit of the Council.

The archbishop took legitamite concerns and took things to far breaking off from the church and ordaining his own bishops without the authority of the pope. His aim was to maintain the mass of Saint Pius the tenth, thus the name SSPX. They are sometimes called Lefebrites but they don’t like it (since it points out the fact they were only started a few years ago by some french bishop named Lefebre.)

They’ve got this weird I believe that the pope is the sucessor to Peter and I believe in his infallability, but I don’t have to listen to what he says thing going on.

The SSPX is fragmenting now, as schismatic gropus often do, but thats besides the point.

All Catholic priests who leave the church to become lefebrites excommunicated themselves. As such thier sacraments are illicit.

As for the individual prayer for a private devotion its use is up to your discernment. A good analogy is this: many English hymns we use in mass were written by protestants, but it doesn’t mean they can’t be used in mass. If the prayer doesn’t espouse any heretical ideals then a good prayer is a good prayer.

Just remember the only acceptable sacrifice is a broken heart. A prayer from the heart is so much more sincere than a hundred rote Our Fathers.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CEDSSPX2.HTM

 

[Carol_Susanna]

Well…it is always interesting to read Blogs, especially when the Blogger doesn’t know how to spell. This always brings me to the conclusion that they possibly do not know what they are talking about, or are ignorant of eternal truths. There is no such thing as Lefebvreists or ites. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, seeing the disastrous consequences of Vatican Council II, of which he was a witness, felt it was his duty to just retire early, because he could not control the efforts of the Modernists to destroy that which was Sacred and Holy, mainly the True Doctrines and Dogmas of the Catholic Faith. While he thought himself retired and away from the whole mess, so to to speak, a group of young seminarians, of which he had been acquainted, approached him and asked him if he would be so kind as to instruct them in their seminary training, rather than that they should continue in the Modernist Seminary which had embraced the errors of Vatican Council II. Archbishop Lefebvre, being advanced in years, truly did not wish to do this, but they insisted, and he felt that training a few young men in the Priesthood, would not be such a big deal, so he went ahead and gave them instruction, after all, he was a Archbishop, the ex-head of the Holy Ghost Fathers, and had received permission to do this from Rome, before they decided his group was getting too popular. As time went on, the small group became larger, and so, in the wake of the evident growth of this little group, Rome became uneasy, as Archbishop Lefebvre was not a Modernist, nor did he wish to train his Seminarians into the modernist mentality. He was put on the carpet for staying with the true Magesterium of the Faith, and then told he was doing evil, when he asked permission to ordain these young Seminarians to the Catholic Priesthood. He felt it was his duty to continue the Sacred Priesthood in the way it was meant to be professed, and so he ordained these young seminarians. If anyone can do a cross comparison of Novus Ordo Seminarians and Traditional Catholic Seminarians, they will see a complete difference of opinion, mainly, the teachings of the Catholic Faith. While the modernists gave up Thomistic Philosophy, which always has been the backbone of the Catholic Church, the Traditional Catholic Seminarian will have a complete education based on this Philosophy, which is contained in the entire Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Acquinas, and is a must read for those who THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT BUT DO NOT, and should be required reading for any Seminarian entering the Catholic Priesthood.

The Blessed Virgin Mary, at Fatima, in 1917, said that if her message was not heeded, that communism would spread its errors throughout the world and even in The Catholic Church. Not many have kept the Fatima message. I run a Catholic book store, and sell very few Rosaries. I also sell very few Rosary Novena Booklets. This isn’t due to overpricing, but due to the fact that people have just not taken the time to practice the Daily Rosary in their Daily lives, and that modernism, which seeks to destroy Tradition, does not push the Daily Family Rosary, and thus we have the breakdown of Catholicism, the breakdown of Society in General, because no one is truly keeping the Commandments. If you want to know “Truth” stay close to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She is the crusher of Demons and the destroyer of Heresies. Archbishop Lefebvre, God rest his soul, was not a Modernist, nor a Heretic, but many have misunderstood that in order to keep the Faith, you must also keep the Commandments, and yes, it would be easier and probably safer to say you were a Sedevacantist than not, because if you say the present Pope is the true Holy Father, than you must adhere to what he says and teaches, it is as simple as that.

Pray the Daily Rosary, Read the Imitation of Christ or the Following of Christ by St. Thomas A Kempis, do the “True Devotion to Mary” of St. Louis de Montfort, and pray for truth. It would be a far easier path to take than the path of the modernists, who have broken down the truths of the faith, and left the poor faithful wondering what “Truth” really is.

Jesus and Mary Bless you, but don’t pass judgments upon the dead, because their judgment is over, and yours will be next. Carol Susanna

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Well…it is always interesting to read Blogs, especially when the Blogger doesn’t know how to spell. This always brings me to the conclusion that they possibly do not know what they are talking about, or are ignorant of eternal truths. There is no such thing as Lefebvreists or ites. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, seeing the disastrous consequences of Vatican Council II, of which he was a witness, felt it was his duty to just retire early, because he could not control the efforts of the Modernists to destroy that which was Sacred and Holy, mainly the True Doctrines and Dogmas of the Catholic Faith. While he thought himself retired and away from the whole mess, so to to speak, a group of young seminarians, of which he had been acquainted, approached him and asked him if he would be so kind as to instruct them in their seminary training, rather than that they should continue in the Modernist Seminary which had embraced the errors of Vatican Council II. Archbishop Lefebvre, being advanced in years, truly did not wish to do this, but they insisted, and he felt that training a few young men in the Priesthood, would not be such a big deal, so he went ahead and gave them instruction, after all, he was a Archbishop, the ex-head of the Holy Ghost Fathers, and had received permission to do this from Rome, before they decided his group was getting too popular. As time went on, the small group became larger, and so, in the wake of the evident growth of this little group, Rome became uneasy, as Archbishop Lefebvre was not a Modernist, nor did he wish to train his Seminarians into the modernist mentality. He was put on the carpet for staying with the true Magesterium of the Faith, and then told he was doing evil, when he asked permission to ordain these young Seminarians to the Catholic Priesthood. He felt it was his duty to continue the Sacred Priesthood in the way it was meant to be professed, and so he ordained these young seminarians. If anyone can do a cross comparison of Novus Ordo Seminarians and Traditional Catholic Seminarians, they will see a complete difference of opinion, mainly, the teachings of the Catholic Faith. While the modernists gave up Thomistic Philosophy, which always has been the backbone of the Catholic Church, the Traditional Catholic Seminarian will have a complete education based on this Philosophy, which is contained in the entire Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Acquinas, and is a must read for those who THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT BUT DO NOT, and should be required reading for any Seminarian entering the Catholic Priesthood.

The Blessed Virgin Mary, at Fatima, in 1917, said that if her message was not heeded, that communism would spread its errors throughout the world and even in The Catholic Church. Not many have kept the Fatima message. I run a Catholic book store, and sell very few Rosaries. I also sell very few Rosary Novena Booklets. This isn’t due to overpricing, but due to the fact that people have just not taken the time to practice the Daily Rosary in their Daily lives, and that modernism, which seeks to destroy Tradition, does not push the Daily Family Rosary, and thus we have the breakdown of Catholicism, the breakdown of Society in General, because no one is truly keeping the Commandments. If you want to know “Truth” stay close to the Blessed Virgin Mary. She is the crusher of Demons and the destroyer of Heresies. Archbishop Lefebvre, God rest his soul, was not a Modernist, nor a Heretic, but many have misunderstood that in order to keep the Faith, you must also keep the Commandments, and yes, it would be easier and probably safer to say you were a Sedevacantist than not, because if you say the present Pope is the true Holy Father, than you must adhere to what he says and teaches, it is as simple as that.

To the OP: The above is not expressing the mind of the Church on the subject of the SSPX. Their bishops are excommunicate (Archbishop Lefebrve died excommunicate), their priests are without faculites, and the laity who assist at their Masses are warned against the grave sin of schism (the Society is schismatic, but the laity don’t actually belong to the society, so it’s bit gray on their count. The Holy See does not recommend attendance at their Masses…I mention all that inasmuch as we only just had a long, long thread on it). As for the prayer, I assume that it’s probably ok to pray it, absent anything overtly schismatic (which I doubt it is). To say that everything the SSPX has to say is wrong because THEY say it is the genesis falacy, ie., that something is wrong because of its source or origin. If you want to ask God for the grace to become a priest, say the prayer. Just don’t go to their Masses.

 

[Carol_Susanna]

---

Just recently, according to the SSPX, of which I am not a member, they claim that Benedict XVI said they are doing a good work. Quite a contradiction from what you just stated about them being excommunicate. Schism? If one looks at the destruction of the Catholic Faith by the Modernist Church which happens to be sitting in the Holy Temple, then it is quite evident that someone had to continue the Faith, rather than subject young men to teachers who would endoctrinate them into Modernism, which was condemned by Pope Pius IX, Pope Leo XIII, Pope St. Pius X, Pope Benedict XV, and Pope Pius XI, as well as Pius XII. Their encyclical letters bear testimony to this. Check out a copy of “The Pascendi” by Pope St. Pius X,and read it carefully. Can 6 Popes be wrong? Can Modernism now be an accepted Theology in the Catholic Faith? Where has the Church gone wrong?

We are living in the darkest ages of the Catholic Church of which “the Great Apostasy” was predicted in the New Testament. And Jesus said, “when the Son of man returns, do ye think that He will find Faith?” Those times are now. Pray for Truth, through the recitation of the Holy Rosary. Mary said, “Next to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, there is nothing in the Church I love more than the Holy Rosary.” Mary, Mother of God, being the “Seat of Wisdom”, will give you Wisdom which comes from Her Divine Son, Jesus. Mary is Mediatrix of all Graces, in other words, all Graces are passed to us, whether we ask them from Her or not, through her Virginal hands. We had need of a Mediator with The Mediator Himself, because of our fallen natures, our inability to do good of ourselves, and the fact that God came to us in the form of an Infant and took upon human flesh. He took his flesh from Mary, and came to us through Mary. As He came to us the first time, through Mary, so He will come to us the second time (at His last coming), through Mary. Here let all tongues be mute (St. Louis de Montfort). Read “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis de Montfort, then do the consecration, and Mary will lead you to the “Truth”. You can always pray for a vocation, of which the world is in need, but pray through Mary. God NEVER refuses the prayers of His Good Mother. De Maria Numquam Satis (Of Mary there is never enough). Through Mary’s word Jesus performed His first miracle at the Wedding Feast of Cana, and as it was then, so it is now! Pax Tecum Dear Friend! Carol Susanna

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Just recently, according to the SSPX, of which I am not a member, they claim that Benedict XVI said they are doing a good work. Quite a contradiction from what you just stated about them being excommunicate. Schism? If one looks at the destruction of the Catholic Faith by the Modernist Church which happens to be sitting in the Holy Temple, then it is quite evident that someone had to continue the Faith, rather than subject young men to teachers who would endoctrinate them into Modernism, which was condemned by Pope Pius IX, Pope Leo XIII, Pope St. Pius X, Pope Benedict XV, and Pope Pius XI, as well as Pius XII. Their encyclical letters bear testimony to this. Check out a copy of “The Pascendi” by Pope St. Pius X,and read it carefully. Can 6 Popes be wrong? Can Modernism now be an accepted Theology in the Catholic Faith? Where has the Church gone wrong?

We are living in the darkest ages of the Catholic Church of which “the Great Apostasy” was predicted in the New Testament. And Jesus said, “when the Son of man returns, do ye think that He will find Faith?” Those times are now. Pray for Truth, through the recitation of the Holy Rosary. Mary said, “Next to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, there is nothing in the Church I love more than the Holy Rosary.” Mary, Mother of God, being the “Seat of Wisdom”, will give you Wisdom which comes from Her Divine Son, Jesus. Mary is Mediatrix of all Graces, in other words, all Graces are passed to us, whether we ask them from Her or not, through her Virginal hands. We had need of a Mediator with The Mediator Himself, because of our fallen natures, our inability to do good of ourselves, and the fact that God came to us in the form of an Infant and took upon human flesh. He took his flesh from Mary, and came to us through Mary. As He came to us the first time, through Mary, so He will come to us the second time (at His last coming), through Mary. Here let all tongues be mute (St. Louis de Montfort). Read “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis de Montfort, then do the consecration, and Mary will lead you to the “Truth”. You can always pray for a vocation, of which the world is in need, but pray through Mary. God NEVER refuses the prayers of His Good Mother. De Maria Numquam Satis (Of Mary there is never enough). Through Mary’s word Jesus performed His first miracle at the Wedding Feast of Cana, and as it was then, so it is now! Pax Tecum Dear Friend! Carol Susanna

Consult the documents on the VII web site if you want the truth regarding the SSPX.

 

[Carol_Susanna]

Credible or incredible, if you haven’t a straight answer from the fact, then your VII website may be flawed. Read the “Pascendi”, then look at the Modernism in the Church, you’ll get your answer from that. Carol Susanna

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Credible or incredible, if you haven’t a straight answer from the fact, then your VII website may be flawed. Read the “Pascendi”, then look at the Modernism in the Church, you’ll get your answer from that. Carol Susanna

Again, read what the Holy See has to say about it. There may be modernists in the Church, but that has nothing to do with the status of the SSPX.

 

[MariaG]

Here is a link to an Article

STATUS OF SOCIETY OF ST PIUS X MASSES

and this one

STATUS OF THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X ****Msgr Camille Perl
Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei

I am sure there may be more, but above are the ones I found posted on EWTN.

God bless,
Maria

 

[Carol_Susanna]

Yes, indeed, you have your Pontifical explanations as to why the SSPX is dangerous and out of the Church. But, you say nothing of the fact that the present Church sees nothing wrong with other religions practicing their outrageous rites in Catholic Churches, or that all religions are deemed the same in the Post-Conciliar Church, or that the Mass has now been implemented in all Novus Ordo Churches throughout the world, and Luther would have a Hay Day if he were alive today, since he was responsible for the 30 years War in Germany, where much blood was shed and martyrs gave their lives for the faith. All in all, it sounds very good indeed, but it is based on shallow ground.

 

[MariaG]

Yes, indeed, you have your Pontifical explanations as to why the SSPX is dangerous and out of the Church. But, you say nothing of the fact that the present Church sees nothing wrong with other religions practicing their outrageous rites in Catholic Churches, or that all religions are deemed the same in the Post-Conciliar Church, or that the Mass has now been implemented in all Novus Ordo Churches throughout the world, and Luther would have a Hay Day if he were alive today, since he was responsible for the 30 years War in Germany, where much blood was shed and martyrs gave their lives for the faith. All in all, it sounds very good indeed, but it is based on shallow ground.

Are you sure your biography is correct? You say you “Traditional Roman Catholic, Goes with Magesterium of the Church”.

Maybe you should edit your profile? Since “YOUR” pontifical explanations would also be yourself if you acutally “go” with the magisterium of the Church, there seems to be a disconnect between your professed profile and your actual beliefs.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Well…it is always interesting to read Blogs, especially when the Blogger doesn’t know how to spell. This always brings me to the conclusion that they possibly do not know what they are talking about…

Hmmmm…many knowledgeable people have been known to misspell a word from time to time.

… the true Magesterium of the Faith…

… the entire Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Acquinas…

Ironically, you misspelled “magisterium” and “Aquinas.”

Read the Imitation of Christ or the Following of Christ by St. Thomas A Kempis

Moreover, Thomas a’ Kempis, while a holy monk to be sure, has never been canonized a saint.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I’m not sure if SSPX is Catholic or not so i put it here. My first question is what is SSPX? I have a prayer from a SSPX website…

The SSPX are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. Their priests are non-incardinated and their superior is excommunicated. Thus, they publically celebrate the sacraments illicitly, and in some cases invalidly.

See more here … please forgive me if I’ve misspelled anything …

How are the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) in error? -View

For a rather clever satire of the SSPX position (not authored by me), see here:

Society of St. Pius I… the REAL remnant! - View

Is it ok to pray it?

Probably. So long as it avoids that which is contrary to Catholic doctrine and approved ecclesiastical discipline.

You are also in my prayers.

 

[MariaG]

The SSPX are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. Their priests are non-incardinated and their superior is excommunicated. Thus, they publically celebrate the sacraments illicitly, and in some cases invalidly.

See more here … please forgive me if I’ve misspelled anything …

How are the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) in error? -View

Thanks Dave. That article helped me. It says that the SSPX SAY they submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff, but reject Vatican II.

I guess I did not realize that they truly thought of themselves as actually being Loyal to the Church. I guess they see themselves as kind of like those who stood against arianism.

God bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Are you sure your biography is correct? You say you “Traditional Roman Catholic, Goes with Magesterium of the Church”.

Maybe you should edit your profile? Since “YOUR” pontifical explanations would also be yourself if you acutally “go” with the magisterium of the Church, there seems to be a disconnect between your professed profile and your actual beliefs.

The SSPX are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. Their priests are non-incardinated and their superior is excommunicated. Thus, they publically celebrate the sacraments illicitly, and in some cases invalidly.

See more here … please forgive me if I’ve misspelled anything …

How are the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) in error? -View

For a rather clever satire of the SSPX position (not authored by me), see here:

Society of St. Pius I… the REAL remnant! - View

Probably. So long as it avoids that which is contrary to Catholic doctrine and approved ecclesiastical discipline.

You are also in my prayers.

Thanks Dave. That article helped me. It says that the SSPX SAY they submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff, but reject Vatican II.

I guess I did not realize that they truly thought of themselves as actually being Loyal to the Church. I guess they see themselves as kind of like those who stood against arianism.

God bless,
Maria

I quote myself and Dave because I can now see that Carol absolutely sees no disconnect in professing loyalty to the magisterium of the Church while rejecting Vatican II.

 

[Damascus]

Carol, its simple really. We may have a shortage of vocations to the Priesthood, but there has never been a shortage of vocations to the Papacy.

Attitudes that you have expressed here certainly indicate that you have enrolled into the vocation of Papacy yourself.

Authourity and Obedience. Non negotiable Carol. You are in schism if you think otherwise.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

I guess they see themselves as kind of like those who stood against arianism.

Maria,

That is precisely how many of them view themselves, from what I can gather.

Dave, and Maria,do either of you have any idea what our response to such comparisons should be?

Thanks!
VC

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Thanks Dave. That article helped me. It says that the SSPX SAY they submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff, but reject Vatican II. …

A wonderful book on the topic is…

***More Catholic Than the Pope: An Inside Look At Extreme Traditionalism ***by Patrick Madrid and Peter Vere

http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/items/19224sm.jpg

 

[itsjustdave1988]

,Dave, and Maria,do either of you have any idea what our response to such comparisons should be?

I’ve responded in the past by asking what they think the comparison to Arianism is?

With Arianism, despite persecution Pope Liberius upheld and staunchly supported the teachings of the ecumencial council and that of Athanasius. So, Athanasius, unlike Msgr. Lefebvre, never dissented with the authentic teachings of the pope or papally-approved ecumencial council. Never. Thus their attempt at comparison is weak.

Lefebvre apologists often like to discuss how Liberius “excommunicated” Athanasius. However, they pin their hopes upon dubious history. In fact, their claims against the orthodoxy of Pope Liberius are contrary to the writings of other ancient popes. Observe…

Pope St. Anastasius on “The Orthodoxy of Pope Liberius”:

The heretical African faction [of the Arian heresy] was not able by any deception to introduce its baseness because, as we believe, our God provided that that holy and untarnished faith be not contaminated through any vicious blasphemy of slanderous men — that faith which had been discussed and defended at the meeting of the synod of Nicea by the holy men and bishops now placed in the resting place of the saints… For this faith those who were then esteemed as holy bishops gladly endured exile, that is . . . Liberius, bishop of the Roman Church.”

(Pope St. Anastasius, Dat mihi plurimum, from art. 93 of the thirtieth edition of Denzinger’s, cited by Pete Vere, “My Journey out of the Lefebvre Schism - All Tradition Leads to Rome”, *Envoy Magazine, *Vol. 4.6)

Moreover, the Greek perspective of Liberius’ orthodoxy according to the Greek Menologium (liturgical text of the Greek church),

[At the 27th September] The blessed Liberius, defender of the truth, was Bishop of Rome during the reign of Constantius. His zeal . . . . made him undertake the defence of the great Athanasius Then Liberius, who fought with his whole strength against the malice of the heretics, was exiled to Beræa in Thrace. But the Romans, who loved and honored him, remained faithful to him, and besought the Emperor to restore him. Liberius returned to Rome, where he died after wisely governing his flock."

[cited by P.J. Harrold, “[/COLOR]The Alleged Fall of Pope Liberius,” *American Catholic Quarterly Review, *v.8, 1883, pp.529-49]
Lefebvrism has no comparison to the persecution endured by BOTH Pope Liberius and St. Athanasius from the Roman Emporer because of their steadfast faithfulness to an ecumenical council–the Nicene Council. They both held that the judgment of the Ecumenical Council was the final word on the matter. In fact, those that hold fast to Ecumencial Council of Vatican II have more similarity to that position than do Lefebvrists.

continued…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

continued…

Some Catholic scholars assert that Liberius indeed excommunicated Athanasius, but did so under duress. That this was an invalid excommunication is readily understood because once the source of duress was removed, neither Liberius nor Athanasius treated the excommunication as valid.

So even if the dubious nature of this excommunication was true, how has this any comparison to Lefebvre’s excommunciation? Lefebvre was forewarned of his excommunication beforehand. John Paul II always held that Lefebvre was validly excommunicated.

Furthermore, Pope John Paul II declared the excommunication of Lefebvre and the illicitly ordained bishops of his movement voluntarily, after giving them warning after warning. In essence, Lefebvre’s disobedience demanded the just censure voluntarily decreed by the lawful Vicar of Christ, Pope John Paul II.

This is from Pope John Paul II sent to Msgr Lefebvre just weeks prior to his unlawful consecration of Bishops:

In the letter you sent me you appear to reject all that was agreed on in the previous conversations, since you clearly manifest your intention to “provide the means yourself to continue your work,” particularly by proceeding shortly and without apostolic mandate to one or several episcopal ordinations, and this in flagrant contradiction not only with the norms of Canon Law, but also with the Protocol signed on May 5th and the directions relevant to this problem contained in the letter which Cardinal Ratzinger wrote to you on my instructions on May 30th.(Letter to Lefebvre by Pope John Paul II, June 9, 1988)

Lefebvre was clearly forewarned by the Pope that he lacked the necessary pontifical mandate to proceed with his episcopal consecrations. Despite this forewarning by the Pope, on June 15, 1988, Lefebvre held a press conference announcing his intentions to consecrate four bishops on 30 Jun 1988.

Having been forewarned by both Cardinal Ratzinger and the Pope that the mandate necessary to proceed with the episcopal consecrations was lacking, and in light of this press conference announcing the four candidates, on behalf of the Congregation for Bishops, Cardinal Gantin issued the following monition on June 17, 1988:

Since on June 15th, 1988 you stated that you intended to ordain four priests to the episcopate without having obtained the mandate of the Supreme Pontiff as required by canon 1013 of the Code of Canon Law, I myself convey to you this public canonical warning, confirming that if you should carry out your intention as stated above, you yourself and also the bishops ordained by you shall incur ipso facto excommunication latae sententiae reserved to the Apostolic See in accordance with canon 1382.

Despite the above clear warnings, Lefebvre proceeded with the ordinations. By doing so, it is clear that he was in fact ASKING to be excommunicated by ignoring the AUTHORITY of the Pope. How can any objective person draw any comparison to Athanasius’ supposed excommunication, which if indeed signed by Liberius, was clearly under duress and nugatory in the minds of Liberius and Athanasius? How can any objective person believe Lefebvre’s excommunication was not valid? To do so would be to deny the Pope’s power to judge, to excommunicate, to legislate, thereby denying the authority of the Pope.

St. Thomas Aquinas taught (cf. *Summa Theologica, *IIb, 104, 5) there is only two reasons why one can licitly disobey his superior: 1) His superior is demanding something of the subordinate that is contrary to higher authority, and 2) His superior is demanding something outside the scope of his authority. Neither of these conditions are met in the case of Lefebvre. Thus, Lefebvre’s disobedience was illicit and by no means traditional in the Catholic sense.