Sspx

[nbjayme]

The ones that bash the Roman Catholic Church and the Holy Father.

Who is bashing the Roman Catholic Church? We’re fighting for the Roman Catholic Church.

You mean like St. Paul bashed / rebuked St. Peter because of his wrong actions not confirming the Teaching of the Holy Spirit?

Like St. Athanasius is bashing the Authorities of the Church because of embracing heresy???

Even when there were “not so good Popes” in the history of the church, it was still our responsibility to honor our Church and the Holy Father. That, my friend is being obedient, just as Pius X taught.

It is to that fact that the SSPX honors the Holy Roman Catholic Church and see to it that Her Teaching is always taught as should be understood from numerous writings of Holy Men in the Church. Pius X did not teach respecting heresy.

Heresy comes in alot of forms, like separating yourself from that true church when you “believe” something is wrong (just as the SSPX did).

Heresy is a Teaching contrary to the Faith of the Church. You’re mixing things. And the SSPX is not separate the matter is “internal” to the Church. If there’s heresy … review your posts.

Openly attacking others who don’t “see” things the way you do.

A heresy is a heresy is a heresy. It has no place in the Church of God – the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

Also, those who resort to name calling, judging (as heretics), and openly defending someone who has gone against our church.

name calling… judging… hmmmm… review even your latest post. You’re the person insisting your judgment against SSPX.

Trying to “show” others you know more than they do, is not really heresy, that is just arrogance. Did Jesus show arrogance when dealing with the “woman at the well”, or did He show her love and acceptance.

Now you call me arrogant… who is being arrogant here? Didn’t I asked you questions…there are no explanations from you and yet you continue on your vile accusations against SSPX. tsk-tsk-tsk.

Are we to follow Lefebvre, the SSPX and copy their ways. …
Or are we to be Christ-like …

Are we to follow St. Athanasius who had the Faith? Certainly. Being Christ-like is not about accepting heresy and let it go by.

I’ll expect a response from nbjayme since you seem to be sooo knowledgable, I’m sure you can tell us WHO we should follow…

sure sure…

Care to go through my questions in the previous posts???

May I know of a V2 Dogmatic declaration that allows one to pray with heretics / pagans? Even to the point of allowing them to use the premises of the church. Is this allowable in light of the Teaching of the Church? Can you please expound this to us…? What was V1 teaching on this? V2’s teaching? What Dogma was it based to make such action “licit”?

What dogma was the prayer based on?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4161680&postcount=287

 

[Auntie_M]

Can this be applied to a Pope too? One who knows better than a previous Pope who wrote Quo Primum?

I guess you could even apply that to Jesus in His day, how He was treated by non Christains. Jesus was preaching a “new” message, I guess you could say He thought He knew better than the “other elders” too.

Just because something is “new” doesn’t make it automatically “bad”. To have a closed mind to anything “new” is to possibly reject the best thing ever. (As Jesus was rejected).

Alot of Popes have “overturned” their predecessor’s rulings. A Pope is NOT always right in ALL things. But we have NOT been elected to be his mentor/editor/judge. That is a job for our Lord,
and ONLY him.

Popes are just people too, and when they are not speaking ex cathedra, they, too, can let their own views cloud their thinking.

But just because a Pope makes a bad decision here or there, does that mean we are to just “Kick em to the curb”, “tar and feather” 'em, hang 'em from the highest tree?

Are we really supposed to ask forgiveness for US making bad decisions and yet, fail to forgive the Pope for his? I think that is the “Forgive us our transgressions AS WE forgive others”.

You are the “Pope” of your household, do you always make the right decisions for your family? When you don’t, does your family disown you?

But that is just what is happening here…

 

[Auntie_M]

Did St Paul, (when opposing St. Peter) leave St Peter and start his own movement?

So, the SSPX is using him as an example…WHY?

As for nbjayme, I understand that you are angry, I would be too if I were in your position. (Being led to believe things contrary to the Roman Catholic Church is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[nbjayme]

But just because a Pope makes a bad decision here or there, does that mean we are to just “Kick em to the curb”, “tar and feather” 'em, hang 'em from the highest tree?

Are we really supposed to ask forgiveness for US making bad decisions and yet, fail to forgive the Pope for his? I think that is the “Forgive us our transgressions AS WE forgive others”.

You are the “Pope” of your household, do you always make the right decisions for your family? When you don’t, does your family disown you?

But that is just what is happening here…

Hmm… why don’t they just forgive Honorius I then instead of excommunicating him?

The SSPX prays for the Pope to give him more strength… I know because the priests tells us to “pray for the Pope” … but we cannot go blind on the deliberate wrong actions taken by the Pope. We have to tell that this is wrong … and remind the faithful of the Teaching of the Church.

 

[nbjayme]

Did St Paul, (when opposing St. Peter) leave St Peter and start his own movement?

Did St. Athanasius start his own movement? He did because the Authorities of the Church were stubborn of embracing heresies. And what of St. Peter? Did he not acknowledge what he did was wrong and changed for the benefit of the Church?

So, the SSPX is using him as an example…WHY?

To show that we ought to correct each other for the fullness of Faith for the benefit of the Church. You don’t get it… Why?

As for nbjayme, I understand that you are angry, I would be too if I were in your position. (Being led to believe things contrary to the Roman Catholic Church is a hard pill to swallow.

Well well angry… hmm… no need. It’s clear if one reviews the post. One who has the Faith Keeps the Church.

 

[nbjayme]

hmm… does posting in this forum makes one suffer from amnesia??? Is this a hard to swallow pill?

Care to go through my questions in the previous posts???

May I know of a V2 Dogmatic declaration that allows one to pray with heretics / pagans? Even to the point of allowing them to use the premises of the church. Is this allowable in light of the Teaching of the Church? Can you please expound this to us…? What was V1 teaching on this? V2’s teaching? What Dogma was it based to make such action “licit”?

What dogma was the prayer based on?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4161680&postcount=287

 

[Auntie_M]

Who is bashing the Roman Catholic Church? We’re fighting for the Roman Catholic Church.

You mean like St. Paul bashed / rebuked St. Peter because of his wrong actions not confirming the Teaching of the Holy Spirit?

Like St. Athanasius is bashing the Authorities of the Church because of embracing heresy???

It is to that fact that the SSPX honors the Holy Roman Catholic Church and see to it that Her Teaching is always taught as should be understood from numerous writings of Holy Men in the Church. Pius X did not teach respecting heresy.

Heresy is a Teaching contrary to the Faith of the Church. You’re mixing things. And the SSPX is not separate the matter is “internal” to the Church. If there’s heresy … review your posts.

A heresy is a heresy is a heresy. It has no place in the Church of God – the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

name calling… judging… hmmmm… review even your latest post. You’re the person insisting your judgment against SSPX.

Now you call me arrogant… who is being arrogant here? Didn’t I asked you questions…there are no explanations from you and yet you continue on your vile accusations against SSPX. tsk-tsk-tsk.

Are we to follow St. Athanasius who had the Faith? Certainly. Being Christ-like is not about accepting heresy and let it go by.

sure sure…

Care to go through my questions in the previous posts???

May I know of a V2 Dogmatic declaration that allows one to pray with heretics / pagans? Even to the point of allowing them to use the premises of the church. Is this allowable in light of the Teaching of the Church? Can you please expound this to us…? What was V1 teaching on this? V2’s teaching? What Dogma was it based to make such action “licit”?

What dogma was the prayer based on?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4161680&postcount=287

I do believe the Church is open to all, especially sinners, heretics, and pagans. And since that is true, then the other people in the church that are praying are also praying WITH sinners, heretics, and pagans. That has been a Doctrine of the church from day one. (As taught by Christ Himself)

(This happens EVEN in an SSPX church)

A “Holier than thou attitude” has no place in any church.

We are to be fishers of men…We catch 'em, God cleans 'em

 

[Auntie_M]

To nbjayme

I do appoloze for “not answering some of your post”. I am just now getting over pnemonia. I haven’t read all the past posts.

If you will let me know which ones to answer, I’ll surely do so.

 

[nbjayme]

I do believe the Church is open to all, especially sinners, heretics, and pagans. And since that is true, then the other people in the church that are praying are also praying WITH sinners, heretics, and pagans. That has been a Doctrine of the church from day one. (As taught by Christ Himself)

It lacks one thing… while it is open to all it is not open to heresies. Christ even warned his Apostles against the false teachings of the pharisees and scribes. Now that is more complete.

One cannot clean heresy if you don’t even understand the True Faith of the Church.



Ah — the Holier-than-thou “casting” … an old melody that doesn’t rhyme a thing. Like the pharisees and scribes instead of understanding the Teaching of Jesus they are busy looking at other things… to accuse.

 

[nbjayme]

To nbjayme

I do appoloze for “not answering some of your post”. I am just now getting over pnemonia. I haven’t read all the past posts.

If you will let me know which ones to answer, I’ll surely do so.

Really now… is this then how it is here in Catholic forum…?

oh well. no need to rush… do please make your self well from pneumonia…

Too bad the pill i’m giving isn’t for pneumonia…

 

[nbjayme]

If you will let me know which ones to answer, I’ll surely do so.

May I know of a V2 Dogmatic declaration that allows one to pray with heretics / pagans? Even to the point of allowing them to use the premises of the church. Is this allowable in light of the Teaching of the Church? Can you please expound this to us…? What was V1 teaching on this? V2’s teaching? What Dogma was it based to make such action “licit”?

What dogma was the prayer based on?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4161680&postcount=287

II Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel might not steadfastly look on the face of that which is made void. 14 But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void). 15 But even until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. 16 But when they shall be converted to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

How did the declaration against modernism hurt the Dogma of the Catholic Church?

If they are legally ordained by their peers who is then to ordain them “legally”?

Are they in “imperfect” communion with the Church?

Hmm… why don’t they just forgive Honorius I then instead of excommunicating him?

Oh well… remember no need to rush…

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Does St. Athanasius knows what was best for the Church during his fight?

Does St. Paul know better than St. Peter that he needs to rebuke St. Peter?

It’s not about following — it’s the Teaching in light of the Dogma of the Church.

Would you please answer this then:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4161680&postcount=287

And are you a bishop as were these. ???

 

[nbjayme]

And are you a bishop as were these. ???

Before answering the questions below let me ask you this then :

You therefore agree now that rebuking / correcting the error does not constitute schism?

[DRC] James 5:20
He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

Is heresy a sin?

Did St. James said only a bishop can do that?

Are you going to follow Pope Honorius I, if you have lived during his lifetime?

What are you to say to those people following Pope Honorius I error? Let say that other person is your brother and he believes in Pope Honorius I teaching? Are you to just let it be?

What did the Bible teach you?

(Please tell me firsthand if you are still recovering from pneumonia or other sickness. Again, if you are also… no need to rush).

 

[Fran65]

Really now… is this then how it is here in Catholic forum…?

oh well. no need to rush… do please make your self well from pneumonia…

Too bad the pill i’m giving isn’t for pneumonia…

AuntieM is giving you a perfectly legitimate explanation for not having answered fully all of the questions posed.

It would particularly uncharitable if your statements are not sincere. I hope that they are.

Get well soon AuntieM.

 

[nbjayme]

AuntieM is giving you a perfectly legitimate explanation for not having answered fully all of the questions posed.

It would particularly uncharitable if your statements are not sincere. I hope that they are.

Get well soon AuntieM.

Yeah. That’s why I wanna make sure nobody is also sick and remind them to get some rest first hand.

(Please tell me firsthand if you are still recovering from pneumonia or other sickness. Again, if you are also… no need to rush).

:hug1:

 

[nbjayme]

Deacon Ed B,

Pro Vobis,

Fran65,

SFD,

RyanML,

AuntieM,

Claudius,

oneGodoneChurch,

maurin,

Thomas58,

SaintRafael,

fb19,

pnewton,

psalter,

San Judas,

Thanks for the accommodation.



Prayers to all.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

May I know of a V2 Dogmatic declaration that allows one to pray with heretics / pagans? Even to the point of allowing them to use the premises of the church. Is this allowable in light of the Teaching of the Church? Can you please expound this to us…? What was V1 teaching on this? V2’s teaching? What Dogma was it based to make such action “licit”?

What dogma was the prayer based on?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4161680&postcount=287

you seem to be the authority. please enlighten us.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

To nbjayme. Did you follow Pope John Paul II and do you follow Pope Benedict XVI?
Deacon Ed B

 

[pnewton]

I haven’t mentioned this in a while but all this talk of Athanasius presumes a correlation with the SSPX, which is the very thing it is used to prove. Therefore it is a circular argument composed of nothing but wind.

Athanasius is a saint. LeFebvre is not. BIIIGGGG difference there.

Athanasius stood up for a heresy involving the nature of Christ. LeFebvre stood up to protect against changes in the liturgy.

Athanasius was excommunicated for his beliefs and his defense of them. LeFebvre was… er… what ever you want to call it… for his disobedience of a direct papal order. He was still free to believe as he wanted and speak freely.

Athanasius was exiled and accused in 335, and found innocent six years later. His exile lasted eleven years. He also had a couple of other shorter periods of exile. The SSPX founded in 1970 has been in dispute with the papacy since its disobedience in 1988, twenty years ago and is still going strong in their spirit of rebellion. At no time as it enjoined the existence of support that Athanasius had among the faithful.

Now, if you want to talk about St. Paul, first show me where St. Paul ever, ever disobeyed a directive from Peter. Paul opposed Cephas to his face, but he did not disobey him. That is the difference between a Saint and a rebel.

St. Paul knew the importance of compromise and adaptation.

 

[Binx]

I haven’t mentioned this in a while but all this talk of Athanasius presumes a correlation with the SSPX, which is the very thing it is used to prove. Therefore it is a circular argument composed of nothing but wind.

This is false. The example of Athanasius is not used by the SSPX to prove anything about the Society. Rather, it is used to disprove a false argument made by SSPX critics. The structure of that false argument is as follows:

No true Catholics oppose the Pope on important matters.
The SSPX oppose the Pope on some important matters.
Therefore, the SSPX are not true Catholics.

The Athanasius example (and the example of St. Paul, among others) is used to disprove the major premise, since Athanasius was indeed a true Catholic who did oppose his Pope (as well as almost all of his fellow bishops). Since the major premise is false, the SSPX cannot be condemned on the basis of that argument.