St. Boniface Church In San Francisco Lets Homeless People Sleep In Pews

[empantarhei]

No, there’s not a sudden new “desperation.” It’s more of a stagnant situation and a clueless, largely self-serving local gov’t more interested in wooing and serving the rich because of declining tax revenue for the combined resources of the City.

Thanks for the info. I just thought, with joblessness, that would have increased the homelessness.

No matter what, it is always an unfortunate situation all the way around.
Again, thank you.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I know that when I was a Franciscan in formation we would not feed the poor at the friary, but take them to drop-in centres, or rehab in order to somehow break the cycle of addiction and poverty etc. However, many of those places are now closed, so what do you do?

You collaborate with willing Catholic lay activists to do the kind of “hard-selling” which many in formation and finished with formation are loathe to do: You start doing some hard bargaining with City government: We do this for you, you do this for us. You don’t, and we go to the Press. Any questions? (Gov’t officials particularly hate bad local publicity on local broadcast stations; they will do most anything to avoid that; and when “outed” on local media, will often change their ways.)

This is where having worldly members on your team can do wonders.

 

[BroomWagon]

I appreciate the thrust of your argument. I think you are right in demanding that the civil authorities look after the homeless. However, as no doubt you know, successive levels of Government and healthcare have cut costs by dumping the mentally ill on the streets, to be arrested from time to time and cycled through jails.

I’m not sure that in cities like SF, or LA, or Vancouver in Canada that the local officials are willing to spend money to house the poor, and the mentally ill.

I know that when I was a Franciscan in formation we would not feed the poor at the friary, but take them to drop-in centres, or rehab in order to somehow break the cycle of addiction and poverty etc. However, many of those places are now closed, so what do you do?

When I was a prison chaplain the inmate population would spike around Christmas as the homeless would break a store window in order to be sent to jail for over the holiday, so they could have some guaranteed food and shelter during the “festive” season.

Because this is in the news, I’ve got to say you say above “government and healthcare have cut costs” but though it’s a slippery slope, in the USA, the ACLU through legal action, got a lot of these people on to the streets, that these people by law can not be held as to issues of mental health.

 

[triumphguy]

You collaborate with willing Catholic lay activists to do the kind of “hard-selling” which many in formation and finished with formation are loathe to do: You start doing some hard bargaining with City government: We do this for you, you do this for us. You don’t, and we go to the Press. Any questions? (Gov’t officials particularly hate bad local publicity on local broadcast stations; they will do most anything to avoid that; and when “outed” on local media, will often change their ways.)

This is where having worldly members on your team can do wonders.

True.

I’m just going to look in my parish directory for “willing lay activists”

 

[triumphguy]

Because this is in the news, I’ve got to say you say above “government and healthcare have cut costs” but though it’s a slippery slope, in the USA, the ACLU through legal action, got a lot of these people on to the streets, that these people by law can not be held as to issues of mental health.

Also true.

 

[Peter_Plato]

You collaborate with willing Catholic lay activists to do the kind of “hard-selling” which many in formation and finished with formation are loathe to do: You start doing some hard bargaining with City government: We do this for you, you do this for us. You don’t, and we go to the Press. Any questions? (Gov’t officials particularly hate bad local publicity on local broadcast stations; they will do most anything to avoid that; and when “outed” on local media, will often change their ways.)

This is where having worldly members on your team can do wonders.

So what are you proposing should happen to these people while the activists duke it out with the city government?

 

[triumphguy]

So what are you proposing should happen to these people while the activists duke it out with the city government?

Rock -------- St. Boniface ----------Hard place.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I’ve given Martin Sheen the benefit of the doubt but I don’t like this response to abortion. In other words, it’s the old personally against but …

I think he’s played religious roles before which I thought were done okay.

Now, the above does appear to be from a few years ago but if he hasn’t changed his mind on this, it calls his cause serious into question for me.

So, he basically just touts liberalism, I am disappointed with Martin Sheen… I might even write him, email, I think he is somewhat accessible. And his son, Charlie has been in the press for such negative reasons, not sure about Emilio, maybe I’ve even heard some positives about Emilio Estevez.

Well at least he’s against the death penalty and war, which is more than can be said of some Catholics.

Oh wait, I forgot, we’re all supposed to be pro-death penalty, pro-war here?

 

[BroomWagon]

Well at least he’s against the death penalty and war, which is more than can be said of some Catholics.

Oh wait, I forgot, we’re all supposed to be pro-death penalty, pro-war here?

It’s not charitable to use such labels to describe other people.

Let’s not forget Abortion is a non-negotiable: stjoseph-marysville.org/faqnonnegotiables.html

1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide. The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child’s, who should not suffer death for others’ sins.

Another sub-set issue within this subject area that is non-negotiable pertains to Human Reproductive Technologies, which includes the Church’s position against Contraception, In-Vitro Fertilization and Sterilization.

In addition, your statement is simplistic too just say “pro-war, pro-death penalty”, there is theology involved here. Not just making up one’s own religion.

 

[Elizabeth502]

True.

I’m just going to look in my parish directory for “willing lay activists”

In many, many metropolitan areas – SF being one of many – there are far more willing lay activists than you can imagine. Many would like to work for non-profits, and seek work in that sector to do just this kind of collaboration. Lots of lay people already work for various parishes and Church organizations of all kinds; in fact there are many more lay workers in parishes and in places like CRS and Cath Charities than there are clerics or religious.

 

[BroomWagon]

Well at least he’s against the death penalty and war, which is more than can be said of some Catholics.

Oh wait, I forgot, we’re all supposed to be pro-death penalty, pro-war here?

Are you sure???

Pope Benedict XVI, when he was still Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, spoke of this in a document dealing with when Catholics may receive Communion:

"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the -application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia" (WRHC 3).

stjoseph-marysville.org/faqnonnegotiables.html

 

[Elizabeth502]

So what are you proposing should happen to these people while the activists duke it out with the city government?

I’ve seen resolutions happen really fast (weeks) when serious confrontation happens with city government, and I don’t mean even civil disobedience. I mean publicity.

It happens very quickly.

 

[yellowbird]

The photos made me almost cry. I cannot imagine how difficult their lives must be…

I :clapping: St. Boniface for doing something to help the poorest among us, and I don’t think it’s disrespectful for them to rest in the Church considering their circumstances.

When the question of abuse is a grey area such as this, isn’t it best to respect the authority of the Bishop and the Priests?

As a side note - I read all of the posts and once again I’m left wondering if some simply post because they like to argue and their goal is hammer away until they “win.”

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

It’s not charitable to use such labels to describe other people.

What is uncharitable about the phrases “pro-war” and “pro-death penalty” (or pro-capital punishment)? These are political positions, like pro-life or pro-choice.

Let’s not forget Abortion is a non-negotiable: stjoseph-marysville.org/faqnonnegotiables.html

Are you a moral relativist?

All murder is non-negotiable.

In addition, your statement is simplistic too just say “pro-war, pro-death penalty”, there is theology involved here.

What do you mean by that? Of course there’s theology involved. There’s theology involved in many of these issues; I never disputed that theology has something to say about many different political positions.

 

[triumphguy]

In many, many metropolitan areas – SF being one of many – there are far more willing lay activists than you can imagine. Many would like to work for non-profits, and seek work in that sector to do just this kind of collaboration. Lots of lay people already work for various parishes and Church organizations of all kinds; in fact there are many more lay workers in parishes and in places like CRS and Cath Charities than there are clerics or religious.

I wasn’t being sarcastic - I just don’t see much social activism where I live.

 

[Elizabeth502]

What is uncharitable about the phrases “pro-war” and “pro-death penalty” (or pro-capital punishment)? These are political positions, like pro-life or pro-choice.

What’s uncharitable is making generalizations, which you did, about anonymous strangers on a message board, who supposedly as a group (“here,” you said) are “pro-war” and “pro-death penalty.” …except that you failed to draw any distinctions. (Again, you generalized) There is a large variety of positions on war and the death penalty on this board, including among traditionalists, including among the orthodox. For example, I am very anti-death-penalty – have been probably forever. I consider it immoral as a deliberate affirmative decision. I naturally would not consider defending one’s life to be immoral (such as a prison guard defending his own life against a vicious convicted killer with a weapon pointed at him, and in the process of defending himself killing that murderer). I believe in the Catholic movement toward restorative justice.

Many of us also are very cautious when it comes to aggressive optional military actions (initiated wars) which are not rescue situations and not in defense of our own civilians – even those of us who come from military backgrounds.

Are you a moral relativist?

All murder is non-negotiable.

The poster wasn’t discussing murder in total, but a particular category of murder. Nor was the poster saying that other murder is OK.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I wasn’t being sarcastic - I just don’t see much social activism where I live.

That’s too bad. There’s a lot of it here, if not in Canada.

 

[Elizabeth502]

When the question of abuse is a grey area such as this, isn’t it best to respect the authority of the Bishop and the Priests?

This is not a diocesan action. It is the action of particular members of a religious Order in a particular parish and only there. As BrotherJR has said on many threads, religious orders of men are somewhat independent of the bishop, and certainly would be in decisions like these.

I read all of the posts and once again I’m left wondering if some simply post because they like to argue and their goal is hammer away until they “win.”

I wonder that, too, but I especially wonder about it from people who don’t know much about this particular situation, and prefer to make inappropriate suppositions about matters they have insufficient information about.


P.S. I’m not referring to you.

 

[CaptFun]

http://thegubbioproject.org/images/shelter_2.jpg

At St. Boniface Church, San Francisco. “Sanctuary of Sleep”
Part of the Gubbio Project.

This story reminded me of Orange County, CA Pastor Wiley Drake of Buena Park, who for a time turned his church grounds into a home for the homeless much to the chagrin of his neighbors.

The City Council fought with him for a while about zoning infractions, and in the 1990’s he actually went to jail for his convictions.

etherzone.com/2001/youn082401.shtml

firstsouthernbaptistchurchofbuenapark.com/the-shelter-2/

Drake is still in Buena Park, has an online TV network, ran for President in 2012 and was arrested again (in front of the White House) protesting the HHS mandates.

As an Orange County guy, I was rather proud to see a fellow Christian going all out for the poor. It was kind of funny (not in a real good way) how some people who loved what Mother Theresa was doing in Calcutta … suddenly saw the wisdom of zoning laws when a similar ministry got too close to their back yards.

I like this story, but must admit there may be problems. Hopefully worship goes on unimpeded.

I was in a discussion once about a man who was ushered from a Catholic Church once due to his smell. Not having smelled him and being young I thought it was awful that anyone should be told to leave the Church.

My “opponent” in the discussion was adamant that people had a right not to be distracted and may even have brought up the parable about the man without a wedding garment being thrown out of the wedding (whereas this man was politely asked to leave).

Part of me reasons that … just as the " Sabbath was made for man … not man for the Sabbath " perhaps too the “Church was made for man … etc.”

The other extreme – of locked up Churches (some in the middle of the daytime!) gives me more of a problem actually. I like that there is “room at the inn” at St. Boniface. It seems like the right priority.

Pastor Drake has had a colorful career … and is of another faith communion … but on the “I was hungry and you fed me …” scale I see the fruits of Christianity and an ally.

His use of imprecatory prayer* (in defense of life and against pro-abortion leaders) gives some pause. And is possibly not in line with Catholic teachings. While that is a little off topic … it may serve as a discernment warning to people looking into Drake. I may not agree with everything he does. Or how he does it … but I do agree with his passion to help the homeless … and the unborn … generally.

• I am not sure if this is a prayer for protection for the unborn with an attendant “remove the enemies of the unborn from power” sentiment (in addition to/instead of?) a prayer for the conversion of the perpetrators of abortion. Like many Drake prays for an end to abortion … at one point particularly praying that the late term abortion clinic run by Dr. Edward Tiller be closed permanently. After Tiller was shot, the clinic was closed. Drake’s quote that “it was an answer to a prayer …” has been interpreted as meaning the clinic is closed by some … or that his prayer was “a curse” against Tiller.

This is not something one hears of much in Catholicism. Although St. Paul did tell the Corinthians this:

1 Corinthians 5:5 … you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

In 2 Corinthians Chapter 2 though, Paul speaks to the Corinthians of forgiving a chastised member (the 1 Corinthians 5:5 person?). And the issue is cloudy since Jesus rebuked James and John for wanting to call down fire on some non-believers. A feat however that was performed by Elijah!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiley_Drake

 

[zaida]

Soooo wonderful to see a House of God doing God’s work - helping the needy. I hope more Churches follow suit!