St. Boniface Church In San Francisco Lets Homeless People Sleep In Pews

[J_Peterson]

Again, bringing things out of context. Showing reverence to God in the Church and helping the poor are two different things in two different places.

So before the crucifixion, Jesus would not want us to shelter the homless in His presence? How about after the resurrection? Why would He be offended after the ascension?

 

[dshix]

So before the crucifixion, Jesus would not want us to shelter the homless in his presence? How about after the resurrection? Why would He be offended after the ascension?

I’m not sure where you are trying to go with this.

I’ll take it from where you are. Let’s say Jesus couldn’t care less how much respect we have for him. Does that mean that right after mass the Church should become a mess hall, and breakfast should be served? Should we have performances and plays up on the altar, with the Blessed Sacrament present?

When Jesus was on earth, He was here to teach. He lowered Himself down to the form of man, and taught man. Sure, He was in the presence of people sleeping, and eating, etc.

That doesn’t mean that it is exactly the same context as how we have Him now. He is here for us to adore and obey. He deserves respect.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

Let’s say Jesus could care less how much respect have for him. Does that mean that right after mass the Church should become a mess hall, and breakfast should be served? Should we have performances and plays up on the altar, with the Blessed Sacrament present?

When Jesus was on earth, He was here to teach. He lowered Himself down to the form of man, and taught man. Sure, He was in the presence of people sleeping, and eating, etc.

That doesn’t mean that it is exactly the same context as how we have Him now. He is here for us to adore and obey. He deserves respect.

 

[RoseMary131]

Corporeal works of mercy are wonderful. But this is not the way to perform them. Surely the parish has another room or building that is not where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass takes place, a more appropriate place for people to sleep.

I think part of this project is to utilize the resources at hand - thus pews - in a church.

The picture of St. Boniface shows a large number of pews that can provide a “bed” with little “housekeeping”. The pews provides places to sleep that would not need to be “cleaned up” the way cots in another room would need. To have another room or building, means heat/air/light for that place. The church is a space that is already being used - yet has extra pews - so the “housekeeping” and expense is already in place.

 

[dshix]

I think part of this project is to utilize the resources at hand - thus pews - in a church.

The picture of St. Boniface shows a large number of pews that can provide a “bed” with little “housekeeping”. The pews provides places to sleep that would not need to be “cleaned up” the way cots in another room would need. To have another room or building, means heat/air/light for that place. The church is a space that is already being used - yet has extra pews - so the “housekeeping” and expense is already in place.

You are addressing the provision of a place to sleep for people, which is a good things, but you are ignoring the glaring fact that it is disrespectful to the Presence of God to do so in the Church. What is your answer to this?

 

[odile53]

Actually, downtown there is one church which offers Eucharistic Adoration daily. There is a homeless shelter nearby, which closes during the daytime. A few of the longer-term people from that shelter make their way over to the church during the daytime, attend Mass, and stay during Adoration. A couple of them, probably who are either Catholic themselves or have had some teaching in the matter, are pretty much self-appointed “security” for Exposition: If someone disruptive enters the church, they either try to calm the person down, or in some cases escort them out. I’ve never seen any of the homeless “regulars” there act disrespectfully during Adoration–they usually either sit or kneel, same as the rest of us. Once in a blue moon someone goes into a confessional to sleep, but they certainly aren’t bothering anyone in there, and I’ve never heard of anything inappropriate going on in there. And if they can get out of the weather during our frigid Northeastern winters, that’s a corporal work of mercy for the parish as well as a spiritual work of mercy.

As long as there are one or two people in the church during nighttime Adoration, to ensure the safety of the Eucharist, wouldn’t you think Our Lord would approve of His house being used for such a humble, basic, and very real human need? And I wouldn’t discount the possibility that some conversions and amendments of life have come about merely by these people resting in the Presence of the Lord. Their throwing themselves on the availability of shelter, and basically on the Mercy of God, may be a more sincere prayer than those of us who are more fortunate can cook up.

 

[dshix]

Actually, downtown there is one church which offers Eucharistic Adoration daily. There is a homeless shelter nearby, which closes during the daytime. A few of the longer-term people from that shelter make their way over to the church during the daytime, attend Mass, and stay during Adoration. A couple of them, probably who are either Catholic themselves or have had some teaching in the matter, are pretty much self-appointed “security” for Exposition: If someone disruptive enters the church, they either try to calm the person down, or in some cases escort them out. I’ve never seen any of the homeless “regulars” there act disrespectfully during Adoration–they usually either sit or kneel, same as the rest of us. Once in a blue moon someone goes into a confessional to sleep, but they certainly aren’t bothering anyone in there, and I’ve never heard of anything inappropriate going on in there. And if they can get out of the weather during our frigid Northeastern winters, that’s a corporal work of mercy for the parish as well as a spiritual work of mercy.

That’s great!

As long as there are one or two people in the church during nighttime Adoration, to ensure the safety of the Eucharist, wouldn’t you think Our Lord would approve of His house being used for such a humble, basic, and very real human need? And I wouldn’t discount the possibility that some conversions and amendments of life have come about merely by these people resting in the Presence of the Lord. Their throwing themselves on the availability of shelter, and basically on the Mercy of God, may be a more sincere prayer than those of us who are more fortunate can cook up.

Why would they need to use the Church for sleeping if there is a shelter a few blocks nearby?

 

[Lawrence178]

I think part of this project is to utilize the resources at hand - thus pews - in a church.

The picture of St. Boniface shows a large number of pews that can provide a “bed” with little “housekeeping”. The pews provides places to sleep that would not need to be “cleaned up” the way cots in another room would need. To have another room or building, means heat/air/light for that place. The church is a space that is already being used - yet has extra pews - so the “housekeeping” and expense is already in place.

The expense is immaterial. Inviting people to sleep where we are supposed witness the Sacrifice of the Mass disrespects that Sacrifice.

 

[J_Peterson]

I’m not sure where you are trying to go with this.

I’ll take it from where you are. Let’s say Jesus couldn’t care less how much respect we have for him. Does that mean that right after mass the Church should become a mess hall, and breakfast should be served? Should we have performances and plays up on the altar, with the Blessed Sacrament present?

When Jesus was on earth, He was here to teach. He lowered Himself down to the form of man, and taught man. Sure, He was in the presence of people sleeping, and eating, etc.

That doesn’t mean that it is exactly the same context as how we have Him now. He is here for us to adore and obey. He deserves respect.

How about if I put it this way. It’s around the year 32 and you have Jesus staying with you. You also invite some homeless folk that have nowhere else to go and they spend their time sleeping in the back while Jesus teaches you. Would He be offended that you let the homeless people sleep there? Now, why would He change His mind after the ascension?

 

[dshix]

How about if I put it this way. It’s around the year 32 and you have Jesus staying with you. You also invite some homeless folk that have nowhere else to go and they spend their time sleeping in the back while Jesus teaches you. Would He be offended that you let the homeless people sleep there? Now, why would He change his mind after the ascension?

Well, you ignored what I said about the change of context, so I basically have to give the same answer.

Jesus may or may not have been offended by people not paying attention while he was teaching. I do now know, nor am I one to judge. In fact, I believe it is fruitless to engage in such speculation.

Please listen to what I am saying about place and context. God is God. He is infinitely good, infinitely powerful, infinitely high. His greatness is so great that we are like nothing next to him. He deserves all the respect in the universe, and more. In coming to earth, He lowered himself to be able to teach us and live with us, but He now expects the greatest respect we can give Him, now that he has returned to Heaven.

^If you don’t respond to the above paragraph, I will be convinced you are not even trying to listen to my point of view.

 

[catholicanne]

How about if I put it this way. It’s around the year 32 and you have Jesus staying with you. You also invite some homeless folk that have nowhere else to go and they spend their time sleeping in the back while Jesus teaches you. Would He be offended that you let the homeless people sleep there? Now, why would He change His mind after the ascension?

 

[Another_Mary]

I did not listen to the audio. However, you mentioned this was the words of someone involved with the project. This person has a misunderstanding of theology. Lots of people have a misunderstanding of theology - even sometimes people teaching at a parish. Do not let this woman’s poor theology bother you. It is unfortunate that its included in the interview.

Yes, it is unfortunate. But I think it’s more than poor theology. It appears that this woman, like some of our nuns, has “gone beyond Jesus”. That’s what’s unfortunate. (Of course, I don’t know what’s in her heart. Maybe she didn’t mean it to sound like their ministry was just as important as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.)

I am not against sheltering the homeless. But, as Catholics, I don’t think we should promote the idea (even among people who don’t believe in God) that we think any individual or group is just as important as our creator.

 

[cheezey]

How about if I put it this way. It’s around the year 32 and you have Jesus staying with you. You also invite some homeless folk that have nowhere else to go and they spend their time sleeping in the back while Jesus teaches you. Would He be offended that you let the homeless people sleep there? Now, why would He change His mind after the ascension?

 

[catholicanne]

He now expects the greatest respect we can give Him

God did not become flesh for respect.

 

[dshix]

God did not become flesh for respect.

What are you trying to say?

 

[PaulinVA]

I am conflicted about this. I am all for reverence of the Eucharistic Lord.

BUT, how can you possible say that a homeless person can not sleep in the Church because God would want him to be awake and sitting up straight? Jesus loves these homeless people.

In some ways this is the dirty part of of the Gospel. It’s easy to write a check to Catholic Charities and mentally check the box that says “clothe the naked” or “feed the hungry”. It’s another thing to have to walk past the hungry and homeless on the way to your pew, perhaps smelling them or hearing them snoring during Mass.

 

[dshix]

I am conflicted about this. I am all for reverence of the Eucharistic Lord.

BUT, how can you possible say that a homeless person can not sleep in the Church because God would want him to be awake and sitting up straight? Jesus loves these homeless people.

In some ways this is the dirty part of of the Gospel. It’s easy to write a check to Catholic Charities and mentally check the box that says “clothe the naked” or “feed the hungry”. It’s another thing to have to walk past the hungry and homeless on the way to your pew, perhaps smelling them or hearing them snoring during Mass.

That’s why we have shelters. If you want to help someone, send them to a shelter to sleep, don’t let them use God’s house.

 

[J_Peterson]

Well, you ignored what I said about the change of context, so I basically have to give the same answer.

Jesus may or may not have been offended by people not paying attention while he was teaching. I do now know, nor am I one to judge. In fact, I believe it is fruitless to engage in such speculation.

Please listen to what I am saying about place and context. God is God. He is infinitely good, infinitely powerful, infinitely high. His greatness is so great that we are like nothing next to him. He deserves all the respect in the universe, and more. In coming to earth, He lowered himself to be able to teach us and live with us, but He now expects the greatest respect we can give Him, now that he has returned to Heaven.

^If you don’t respond to the above paragraph, I will be convinced you are not even trying to listen to my point of view.

That’s the thing, I don’t see a change in context. Christ is Christ, always was and always will be regardless “where” He is.

I guess I just don’t see this as disrespecful, in fact I see it as the opposite. Offering the space gives respect to our Lord by doing what He tells us to do. Also, for every act of mercy there must be one in need of mercy. One side of the equation imitates Christ in His mercy, the other in His sorrow. This is the story of salvation happening right before our eyes (the offer and acceptance of mercy plus the added bonus of Christ actually being present like in Heaven). I see nothing disrespectful, in fact it imitates Christ in the highest way possible, through works.

This is not well thought out but I hope it makes at least a little sense. Work is over and I’m super sleepy.

 

[RoseMary131]

You are addressing the provision of a place to sleep for people, which is a good things, but you are ignoring the glaring fact that it is disrespectful to the Presence of God to do so in the Church. What is your answer to this?

This is my thought: The Church was blessed to be a place to offer Mass, to worship God in the Holy Eucharist, to join with all of Heaven during Mass.

God expects me, at St. Boniface or another church, to follow the proper physical stance and use the proper words of Mass. For prayer, I should follow the proper posture of those in that culture.

It would be disrespectful if I gathered a few items and headed off to the church to sleep today.

Why would I need to sleep there?

That is Key: Why would I need to sleep there?

I see that St. Boniface Church and Gubbio Project have seen that pews that are not being used for the worship of Our Lord can be used without disrespect to God by those who suffer from homelessness.

I assume the priest, bishop, and those with the Gubbio Project have declared what respectfulness must be maintained in order to sleep in the church. They have seen there is a need for a safe place to sleep and they see the church can provide this need.

Sleep is not undignified. The people who are coming to the church to sleep are looking for a place to safely sleep. I do not believe as you do that this is a “glaring fact that it is disrespectful to the Presence of God to do so in the Church”.

I think God sees a difference between me coming into the Church and this homeless person who has been invited by St. Boniface Church to sleep.

I do not see the sleeping homeless person as being disrespectful to Our Lord in His Presence.
I can not imagine Our Lord in Heaven being hurt that the person is asleep in His Presence. God is just and merciful.

 

[cheezey]

That’s why we have shelters. If you want to help someone, send them to a shelter to sleep, don’t let them use God’s house.

Putting the issue of God’s house aside for but a moment…

Times are beyond tough; shelters are overflowing.